Liverpool FC Forum

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:05 pm

What Dirk Kuyt debate.

Been excellent.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:07 pm

dawson99 wrote:so stu do u think he will improve at all next season? or should we just get rid now?

Once he's settled and his confidence improves of course we'll see more consistency.

Do I think he's good enough to be a key player for a title winning side? Not in a million years.

by **dawson99** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:09 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
dawson99 wrote:so stu do u think he will improve at all next season? or should we just get rid now?

Once he's settled and his confidence improves of course we'll see more consistency.

Do I think he's good enough to be a key player for a title winning side? Not in a million years.

ok, (and we are being ncie here, im seriously interested)

Its just i think he can easily get another 10 goals next season on top of what hes done this term... making around 20-25 for the season. weve seen how many hes missed. with a midfield as good as ours, pennant improving, kewel returning, the strikers should get a shed load.

Perfect world of course wed love ashton and maybe villa or e'too but i really think that next season dirk, along with a high calibre striker can help us to a load more wins.

by **Alonso14** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:11 pm

People say he looked lost, but thats because he had been asked to play deeper. Yesterday he played right up top and did well.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:27 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
dawson99 wrote:so stu do u think he will improve at all next season? or should we just get rid now?

Once he's settled and his confidence improves of course we'll see more consistency.

Do I think he's good enough to be a key player for a title winning side? Not in a million years.

Of all the sh.it you spout, thats the one I will look forward to seeing proved total boll.ocks the most.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:42 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
dawson99 wrote:so stu do u think he will improve at all next season? or should we just get rid now?

Once he's settled and his confidence improves of course we'll see more consistency.

Do I think he's good enough to be a key player for a title winning side? Not in a million years.

Of all the sh.it you spout, thats the one I will look forward to seeing proved total boll.ocks the most.

Compare him to Owen or Fowler.

We MIGHT get away with him being the weakest link of two strikers and two class wingers... As for him being a key player in a title winning side... don't make me laugh. Bellamy's a better player than Kuyt.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:50 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
dawson99 wrote:so stu do u think he will improve at all next season? or should we just get rid now?

Once he's settled and his confidence improves of course we'll see more consistency.

Do I think he's good enough to be a key player for a title winning side? Not in a million years.

Of all the sh.it you spout, thats the one I will look forward to seeing proved total boll.ocks the most.

Compare him to Owen or Fowler.

We MIGHT get away with him being the weakest link of two strikers and two class wingers... As for him being a key player in a title winning side... don't make me laugh. Bellamy's a better player than Kuyt.

Like comparing apples to oranges lad.

Fowler and Owen where not the same ilk either.

Owen was pace, Robbie the ultimate clinical finisher.

Come on. You are better than that Stu.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:50 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
dawson99 wrote:so stu do u think he will improve at all next season? or should we just get rid now?

Once he's settled and his confidence improves of course we'll see more consistency.

Do I think he's good enough to be a key player for a title winning side? Not in a million years.

Of all the sh.it you spout, thats the one I will look forward to seeing proved total boll.ocks the most.

Compare him to Owen or Fowler.

We MIGHT get away with him being the weakest link of two strikers and two class wingers... As for him being a key player in a title winning side... don't make me laugh. Bellamy's a better player than Kuyt.

Also I dont recall us winning the league with either of those two up top lad.

by **jaytoothetee** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:59 pm

Bammo wrote:I'm wondering how effect much his wife's pregnancy had on his form. He seemed to go off the boil a bit towards the end of it and wasn't scoring (insert innuendo here). Since his son was born he's looked good and obviously scored yesterday. Could it all be linked?

Edit: i missed a word out

spot on about the baby thing. that's put a lot of extra stress on him the past few months. did anyone see his celebration yesterday btw? can't remember if it was for the first or the second, but he did the romario baby rocking thing. congrats dirk!!

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:32 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
dawson99 wrote:so stu do u think he will improve at all next season? or should we just get rid now?

Once he's settled and his confidence improves of course we'll see more consistency.

Do I think he's good enough to be a key player for a title winning side? Not in a million years.

Of all the sh.it you spout, thats the one I will look forward to seeing proved total boll.ocks the most.

Compare him to Owen or Fowler.

We MIGHT get away with him being the weakest link of two strikers and two class wingers... As for him being a key player in a title winning side... don't make me laugh. Bellamy's a better player than Kuyt.

Like comparing apples to oranges lad.

Fowler and Owen where not the same ilk either.

Owen was pace, Robbie the ultimate clinical finisher.

Come on. You are better than that Stu.

The point is Leon they were both in a completely different class to Kuyt will ever be.

Owen and Fowler were unbelievable players. Kuyt's just "good". Theres plenty of players in the league who are better or at least as good as Kuyt. Bellamy, Crouch, Fowler, Berbatov, Defoe, Keane, Henry, van Persie, Martins, Owen, Saha, Drogba, Schevchenko, Ashton, Tevez, Anelka, Rooney... etc etc.

With Owen and Fowler at there best they were at an absoloute minimum of top 5.

As for saying you can't compare different players Leon, you should be able to do "better than that"... otherwise you wouldn't be able to say Henry was better than Robbie Savage because he was different, or Bergkamp wasn't better than Andy Johnson, because he was different.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:09 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
dawson99 wrote:so stu do u think he will improve at all next season? or should we just get rid now?

Once he's settled and his confidence improves of course we'll see more consistency.

Do I think he's good enough to be a key player for a title winning side? Not in a million years.

Of all the sh.it you spout, thats the one I will look forward to seeing proved total boll.ocks the most.

Compare him to Owen or Fowler.

We MIGHT get away with him being the weakest link of two strikers and two class wingers... As for him being a key player in a title winning side... don't make me laugh. Bellamy's a better player than Kuyt.

Like comparing apples to oranges lad.

Fowler and Owen where not the same ilk either.

Owen was pace, Robbie the ultimate clinical finisher.

Come on. You are better than that Stu.

The point is Leon they were both in a completely different class to Kuyt will ever be.

Owen and Fowler were unbelievable players. Kuyt's just "good". Theres plenty of players in the league who are better or at least as good as Kuyt. Bellamy, Crouch, Fowler, Berbatov, Defoe, Keane, Henry, van Persie, Martins, Owen, Saha, Drogba, Schevchenko, Ashton, Tevez, Anelka, Rooney... etc etc.

With Owen and Fowler at there best they were at an absoloute minimum of top 5.

As for saying you can't compare different players Leon, you should be able to do "better than that"... otherwise you wouldn't be able to say Henry was better than Robbie Savage because he was different, or Bergkamp wasn't better than Andy Johnson, because he was different.

Highlighted some I would pull you up on there mate, but thats another debate.

You can compare different players, but when comparing players who are playing different roles at the club, you cant make the comparrison. Kuyt plays as a 5th midfielder at times when Rafa deploys him, Owen never did this, and Fowler does now cus his legs have gone and he cant beat the defendes anymore.

In his first year, at a new club in a new country he has done well. Not much more than that, however he will improve for the grounding and will be excellent next season.

For the record I would take Owen in 2001 or Robbie in 98-99, however they are no more, and as the debate was how Dirk has done and not compare Dirk to our previous strikers I didnt mention these people.

by **Stu.Murph** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:19 pm

The ones you'd pull me up on, I don't really see how you could question Bellamy, Defoe, Martins or Ashton. They are at least as good as Kuyt at a minimum.

I know you don't like the fact I rate Ashton, but Leon, do us a favour lad, you're a propper red, you probably have the FA Cup win in dvd, watch the game again, ask yourself how could Crouch play so poorly against poor defenders, and Ashton play so well against good ones, watch the individual things he does, the way he effortlessly holds off Sami Hyypia while Crouch struggles to hold of Anton Ferdinand and Gabbidon, the way he spots a defence splitting ball when Crouch passes backwards five yards, the way Ashton scored his goal, the instinct required.

Fowler for me last season was far better than Kuyt has been this season.

by **metalhead** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:42 pm

Owen is a brilliant footballer, he is 10 times better than kuyt, ok he doesn't have the workrate that kuyt has, but he is much better at finishing, he can get past defenders, pass well, very quick, very agile and technically better than kuyt.

I was devestated when Owen left us, I can't forgive him for what he has done for us! it took me a day for the news about his departure to sink in.

Back to topic, Kuyt had a good first season, he looked very impressive in matches, but terrible in others! I think he is a very commited player who plays with passion and character, but he tends to be frustrating at times, for example he has a poor touch and not very quick to anticipate a pass situation. His positives is that he blasts the ball! i love players who blast the ball into the net, i dont know why! Also, he tends to worry the defenders by closing on them. I'm also impressed in games with his link up with steven gerrard, they understand each other very well.

He is a good player, he can improve stu, I think he can, but im not sure he is +20 striker, maybe 15 goal per season, I hope im wrong though

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:44 pm

generally a strikers first season in an new country can be hit and miss (exscuse the pun) but i like Dirk. He works hard and he has created a lot of goals this season. Ok, he's not the 25+ goal scorer we need, but i wouldn't get rid of him because he would work brilliantly with a Owen type striker. As would Peter Crouch.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:14 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:The ones you'd pull me up on, I don't really see how you could question Bellamy, Defoe, Martins or Ashton. They are at least as good as Kuyt at a minimum.

I know you don't like the fact I rate Ashton, but Leon, do us a favour lad, you're a propper red, you probably have the FA Cup win in dvd, watch the game again, ask yourself how could Crouch play so poorly against poor defenders, and Ashton play so well against good ones, watch the individual things he does, the way he effortlessly holds off Sami Hyypia while Crouch struggles to hold of Anton Ferdinand and Gabbidon, the way he spots a defence splitting ball when Crouch passes backwards five yards, the way Ashton scored his goal, the instinct required.

Fowler for me last season was far better than Kuyt has been this season.

OK since you want this one as well.

Bellamy - if he is better why has he not outscored him ? had the same kind of opportunities.

Defoe - too inconsitent, good on a good day, anonymous on a bad day.

Martins - is decent too lad, but better than Kuyt ? (I will give you a draw)

Ashton - has yet to prove it mate. I think he will be super, but needs to kick on from a half decent season and prove it bigtime. I would snap him up once West Ham go down for the record, anything upto £15m would not raise a blink from me.

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The dirk kuyt debate....is he good enough?

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