Liverpool FC Forum

by **JBG** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:19 pm

Aye, for all the contemptable sh.it goin' on at Chelsea I'd still prefer to see them winning than UTD as another win for UTD puts them closer to the magic 18. :angry:

by **Feeney** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:20 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:Everton or the Mancs? Bad choice...

Everton in the name of Chelsea winning the league instead of them scumbags. Lesser of the two evil's it has to be.

Exactly.

As a friend of mine has said repeatedly over the last 10 years "I'd rather the Devil win than Man U."

by **bigmick** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:24 am

Great thread and some top level abuse, some of it fully deserved and perhaps some of it a bit over the top but fair play to all. Some of Stu's abuse to Dawson is totally out of order and uncalled for, Dawson is certainly completely out of order with mispelt swearing and namecalling and Woof and JBG are willing protagonists. Allt that said, you're all big lads so crack on as far as I'm concerned as long as it doesn't clog up every thread with petty fallouts.

My two pennerth worth on the football elements of the thread, of which there are many is thus:

The defending in the Spanish League is obviously (in the games I've watched anyway) by and large superior to that in the majority of English games. I haven't watched that much of it but the defending is very good, with sophisticated systems employed and teams keen to get plenty of players behind the ball. Don't ask me to name names because I can't, but I think the fact that blokes like Abeloda (who nobody had heard of before he came) and Aurelio can walk straight into our league and look quality tells you that the depth of talent is there in spades.

We are not eighteen points in terms of quality behind Man Utd but we will be again next season if we give them a ten point start after five games. We've had three seasons now of totally unnecessary mass rotations at the start of the season and in each and every campaign, we have been measureably worse off in terms of our final points total than we otherwise would have been.IN THE PREMIERSHIP THESE DAYS YOU HAVE TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING. DRAWING THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON AWAY TO SHEFF UTD IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!! So please please please please Rafa, pick the strongest team for the first half dozen matches at least and lets get out of the fecking blocks next year.

All comparisons between Rafa and Houllier which shed any kind of favourable light whatsoever on the Frenchman are made by people with extremely short memories. Under Gerrard, Liverpool were poor in the last couple of seasons. Yes we beat some of the top teams by playing smash and grab football, stifling the game and Danny Murphy nicking a goal. Put us up against somebody who defended in numbers and we looked like we wouldn't score if we played till next Friday. Despite any problems we may have, Rafa has taken the team into a new stratosphere in my opinion. God only knows if Houllier had had to compete against Chelsea's spending power how far behind them and what brand of football we would we would now be contemplating.

by **Stu.Murph** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:01 am

bigmick wrote:All comparisons between Rafa and Houllier which shed any kind of favourable light whatsoever on the Frenchman are made by people with extremely short memories. Under Gerrard, Liverpool were poor in the last couple of seasons. Yes we beat some of the top teams by playing smash and grab football, stifling the game and Danny Murphy nicking a goal. Put us up against somebody who defended in numbers and we looked like we wouldn't score if we played till next Friday. Despite any problems we may have, Rafa has taken the team into a new stratosphere in my opinion. God only knows if Houllier had had to compete against Chelsea's spending power how far behind them and what brand of football we would we would now be contemplating.

In Houllier's last season we were very similar to what we've been this season but the injuries he had to contend with were far greater and no amount of distortion of the facts or biastness against Houllier will change that.

You also say under Houllier we looked clueless against sides who sat behind the ball... Mick... HELLO? We've looked like that this season.

Rafa is a better manager than Houllier, of that I have no doubt whatsoever, but so far mate, weather you like it or not, he's yet to produce a league campaign better than anything Houllier done and his signings have been average at best with probably the same number of good and bad signings and quite alot of ok ones.

Rafa has to prove it this summer and next season mate or the pressure will mount. Especially as the players he inherrited were far greater than the ones Gerrard did.

by **JBG** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:56 am

Stu.Murph wrote:
bigmick wrote:All comparisons between Rafa and Houllier which shed any kind of favourable light whatsoever on the Frenchman are made by people with extremely short memories. Under Gerrard, Liverpool were poor in the last couple of seasons. Yes we beat some of the top teams by playing smash and grab football, stifling the game and Danny Murphy nicking a goal. Put us up against somebody who defended in numbers and we looked like we wouldn't score if we played till next Friday. Despite any problems we may have, Rafa has taken the team into a new stratosphere in my opinion. God only knows if Houllier had had to compete against Chelsea's spending power how far behind them and what brand of football we would we would now be contemplating.

In Houllier's last season we were very similar to what we've been this season but the injuries he had to contend with were far greater and no amount of distortion of the facts or biastness against Houllier will change that.

You also say under Houllier we looked clueless against sides who sat behind the ball... Mick... HELLO? We've looked like that this season.

Rafa is a better manager than Houllier, of that I have no doubt whatsoever, but so far mate, weather you like it or not, he's yet to produce a league campaign better than anything Houllier done and his signings have been average at best with probably the same number of good and bad signings and quite alot of ok ones.

Rafa has to prove it this summer and next season mate or the pressure will mount. Especially as the players he inherrited were far greater than the ones Gerrard did.

Benitez will deliver the title next year, mark my words.

Two or three will go out the door in the summer and three or four top class players (and Voronin

) will arrive in courstesy of the American money.

It may not be pretty but Benitez will win the title for Liverpool.

by **Stu.Murph** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:31 am

I hope so fella. Last season had me convinced he was the right man.

This season I just see another Gerard Houllier situation. I just hope It never gets to that stage and I find myself against the forum again defending the man.

His signings this summer will say to me weather he deserves longer or not. He must bring in the right quality of players and this summer he has no excuse in missing out on good players. If this summer I see players moving that we can afford who are better than our signings and would improve our squad then serious questions MUST be asked.

Make or break time for me. Simple as that.

No more missing out on Ashton's and Anelka's and signing Bellamy's, Crouch's and Kuyts.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:17 am

dawson99 wrote:
Sabre wrote:
Secondly, you're right I'm not a "fan". I'm a supporter. A realistic one at that. Not some southern jumped up self proclaimed funny man who's never been to a game in his life. Not only am I a supporter, but I've played, coached and developed an understanding of the game.

And he's only 23 years old!

Come on Stu, and everybody, let's share opinions on football, not opinions on posters. If we stick to the former, we can achieve great threads, if we start giving opinions on posters, then fights start.

self proclaimed funny man? southerner who doesnt go to matches?

justbecause youve coached some retard camp one summer doesnt make you a manager, it makes u a pr!ck.

stu, no offence, but u r a kunt. u should be banned for being a kunt. u will always be a kunt. no one likes you. so fukk off.

there, case closed.

He's still oen of the better footy posters on here though and it's no coincidence that since he's been back the standard in LFC Gen Discussion has picked up, I'm reading a lot more topics now cos Stu, like him or not, gets excellent debate going.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:29 am

dawson99 wrote:bye spewart, have fun, now if u wanna reply about football in a civilised manner do it here, to do your smileys and pretend to try to make me look silly, pm me dude.

Hang on.. weren't you the one who flipped his lid and started calling him a kunt (3 or 4 times in one post I believe).

Civilised? practice what you preach

by **dawson99** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:56 am

LFC #1 wrote:
dawson99 wrote:bye spewart, have fun, now if u wanna reply about football in a civilised manner do it here, to do your smileys and pretend to try to make me look silly, pm me dude.

Hang on.. weren't you the one who flipped his lid and started calling him a kunt (3 or 4 times in one post I believe).

Civilised? practice what you preach

ok, apologies, but he needs to learn how to be abit more...civil?

Rafa is the new houllier? He needs to get a clue. Fowler doesnt play for a reason. Stu would rather sell all our strikers and keep fowler, maybe we need an official bench warmer. and as i disagree he will just laugh and call me, and anyone else who disagrees an idiot.

We all have opinions, and i wont be talked down to by some spruced up wannabe who plays too much football manager.

I think we are better than last season, getting more consistent. Yeah maybe a few more players would help, but the same goes for every team in the premiership. Wehave the core of a great squad, and we are up with the best. now lets finish this season on a high and go on next season. if all teams kept the same players and this season was done over, i think wed be up there now pushing for a title, i really do. not rose tinted view, but realistic.

by **stmichael** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:15 pm

I think we also have to acknowledge that United had a squad that had been built up over many years with a core of players who were proven winners (and most of a high technical quality) supplemented by players that were bought from the top end of the market - Ferdinand, Rooney, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo (12 mill at 19yrs old) etc.

Benitez took over a squad that was built to play a much more defensive style of play. whose core of best players were either ageing Hamann, Hyppia, Henchoz or considering leaving Gerrard and Owen. Gerrard stayed but Owen left (for a very low fee meaning we had very little chance of replacing him with a player of a similar calibre). So we were left with a squad whose primary tactic over many years of defending deep until Gerrard could release Owen was now not an option. Moreover the club had little money available as they had just paid a record fee for a player the new manager didn't rate. This combined with the low Owen fee and the pay off of the previous staff meant we couldn't have a big overhaul of players. Despite this we went on to win the Champion's League in his first season. This was followed up the second season with a record points total and an FA Cup win. Yes Rafa and the squad still have faults but for me he has done a very good job and we will really see his efforts pay off next season when the quality of the squad will go up even further.

Stu, on another note I see what you are saying about the media and people getting built up too far etc. However the major difference from Rafa to Houllier is that Rafa's passed credentials justify the hype - two la ligas and a uefa cup. When backed up by his achievements at Liverpool Rafa could retire tomorrow and be regarded as a great manager for these achievements.

That leads me to another thing we should recognise that we as a club have never had the level of compettition that we currently have in the Premiership. The current managers of the top four in the Premiership each have a claim to being the best manager in world football IMO. That is a frightening level of competition. For me it is no coincidence that the two managers who have been able to assemble squads with 20 million pound plus players are currently so far ahead of the other two. In a league season genuine top class tells.

by **Stu.Murph** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:29 pm

But the fact is Benitez has signed the wrong players. That simple fact remains and the money he's had has been sufficient enough to improve us a hell of a lot more than he has.

Ashton's a far better player than Crouch could ever be in a million years. Its all well and good saying Dean's not proven it (neither had Crouch) and its all well and good saying Crouch does a job and has his uses (he has and does) but not consistently and Rafa missed out on a player of the mould, but far greater quality in just about every area of the game.

That FA Cup final rubber stamped my opinion. The best player on the pitch for the 60 minutes he was there scoring and creating and bullying the best defence in the country around. They simply couldn't handle him, while at the other end against Gabbidon and Anton Ferdinand, the wonder boy Crouch struggled and was completely marked out of the game.

Then theres Anelka... Why? Why the hell is he playing for Bolton and we've got Kuyt and Bellamy please? I'm sorry, but anyone who's EVER seen these players play LIVE will back up the difference in class. Its immense. Absoloutely immense. Anelka just oozes class, the two we have work hard and occassionally do good things, but the class just poors out of Anelka and near enough everything he does...

These two players alone would have massively improved our side giving us the right mix. Sure, they don't work as hard as the two we have upfront now, so what? They'd score twice as much (easily) and probably create more aswell while giving us a balance and every attribute needed in a strike force.

Theres then players like Vidic we missed out on and signed Agger instead, we didn't pay the £12m for Alves (which at the time I could understand) but is now looking like yet another mistake...

I see us being linked with Simao... whatever happened to that? One or two people realised he's not actually that good all of a sudden? Got lucky there then didn't we.

We need quality. No :censored:

about and no more excuses.

by **JBG** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:36 pm

A player of Alves' quality will arrive in the summer.

Incidentally I watched most of Sevilla-Racing Santander on Sky Sports yesterday and Alves' really is quality. He was whipping in quality crosses all afternoon and had that aggressive quality the young Roberto Carlos had.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:39 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:Ashton's a far better player than Crouch could ever be in a million years.

You know, mate, you keep saying this but what are their respective goal-scoring records over the past couple of years in the top flight? I don't doubt that Ashton has quality but I don't think he's miles better than Crouch. The big man's done well for us since breaking his duck, scoring some absolutely vital goals. In addition, he's stayed healthy. He's been a good signing and I find it hard to find fault with bringing him in. You say bringing Ashton in would have paid even bigger dividends but isn't it just as likely that he would have flopped, given the huge step up he was taking? Look at Pennant...the talent's there but we've not yet seen the proper mentality. Some players can handle the added pressure, others can't, and it's very hard to predict which will be which. This is why I rate Crouch. Not only has he made telling contributions on the pitch, he's developed the right mentality which has allowed him to make the huge step up (even with his legs!

) from Southampton to Liverpool.

by **dawson99** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:41 pm

yeah spewwy, agger looks awful!!! (and he calls me clueless)
maybe we didnt sign anelka because of his attitude? Dunno why we didnt sign ashton, but we didnt, get over it.

by **JBG** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:45 pm

Anelka is a waste of space. He'll always prosper at the likes of Bolton or Man City but cannot hack it when the pressure is on at a big club, which has been proved time and again. Anelka's ability is absolutely frightening, but so was Stan Collymore's.

Ashton has done nothing to justify Stu's outlandish claims about him. I like Ashton - he's clearly a good player - but he has achieved nothing in the game compared to Peter Crouch.

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