Liverpool FC Forum

by **Stu.Murph** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:04 am

aCe' wrote:
bigmick wrote:Before we go any further into this, there are a couple of observations I would like to make. Firstly, this is one of the main reasons why I was an advocate of Stu being allowed back on the board despite his obnoxious style of debate. He does actually say something and gets it stirred up a bit.

Can I just ask two things at this point? Firstly that Stu keeps it civil, and secondly that everyone else isn't in the least bit surprised or offended when Stu says you "haven't got a clue" or "you've completely missed the point" should you choose to disagree with his ramblings.

This is where I prove both that "I haven't got a clue" and that I've "missed the point". Heskey was absolute garbage and made Cisse look good to be frank. He couldn't finish at all, in no way shape or form. He was, is, and shall remain, clueless. I have two vivid memories of Heskey. One was of the ball hitting him up the erse and staying out when all he had to do was get out of the way in an important match. The other was against the Mancs (I think) when in the dying seconds and with Liverpool 2-1 he missed a clear opportunity by falling on his erse. I actually think the latter sealed his fate at anfield as when the camera panned onto Houlliers face, the Frenchman looked as if he had finally seen the light. He is simply a poor player and is best left out of striker comparisons as he distorts the argument.

hahahaha....

cisse isnt as bad as most ppl in this forum

Wrong.

by **dawson99** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:46 am

some players just cant handle the preiership. mori and cisse being prime examples...w ell mori being a better one as mori is a very talented player. Cisse will do well in the hit and hope league of france...and good luck to him.

by **Feeney** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:25 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:You've completely and utterly missed the point of what I'm saying so there is absoloutely no point in putting across an arguement which you are either:

1. Can't understand.
2. Can't read.
3. Are completely blinded by your hate of the player.

Not once did I ever say Heskey was a preditor, not once did I ever say he was prolific.

Steven Gerrard's one of the best tacklers in the world, Xabi Alonso has made two times as many tackles as him in the last season...

Firstly to Bigmick, you don't need to worry about me on this one - everyone's entitled to thier opinion and Stu firmly believes in what he's saying; can't knock a lad for that. I'd much rather get told that I don't have a clue than no response as it shows that the other person has read and analysed your comment and has been willing to take it on board.

Secondly to Stu - Understood your point perfectly mate - that you believe that Heskey was as good if not better at finishing than Gerrard. I made my secondary comments to justify my opinion - too often, some dozzyar$e will make a point without fully explaining themselves and results on one line answers, which defeats the whole point of the forum as a means of debate. My first response (don't make me laugh) was light-hearted.

I don't believe that Heskey was and is as good a finisher as Gerrard. Gerrard is a quality finisher, with poise and accuracy shown in one goal and sheer brute force and power in another. Heskey for me was far too one-dimensional - when he did get a sight of goal, he just hit is as hard as he could. Nothing more, nothing less. I would also disagree with Hamann on your list, but I certainly would with Robbie, Owen and Murphy.

For the current crop, your pretty much spot on there - however, I would add Xabi to the list as well.

by **DonnieDarko** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:32 am

I don't post very much...

but some of you guys are straight up fools:

Joaquin is just not good enough. If any of you watched Chelsk play Valencia, You would have seen Joaquin and how awful he was. If you had told me two summers ago he was coming I would have been ecstatic, now I would be utterly disapointed.

then there's Quaresma who is a good football player but I just can't see him playing for Liverpool.

Not to mention it would be extremely foolish to drive off a player like Pennant, Gonzo, Bellamy, or Kuyt after only their first season unless of course they are utter rubbish (which none of them are). Prime example: Vidic

by **Owzat** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:11 am

Fowler should be given a new contract but probably won't be. He would provide good cover and could play in the cups.

Zenden is all but out the door as his contract is up

Crouch - love him or hate him his scoring record is not great and if Liverpool wish to win the league they need to buy goalscorers. I think he should be sold as he could raise a few million

Dudek has said he wants to stay but I can't see him getting enough games to make it worthwhile for either side. Carson has done well at Charlton and should be recalled - will anyone be happy to play second fiddle to Reina?

Bellamy is reportedly wanted by Villa who it is claimed would pay £7m. On his current returns that would be a wise sale, although I am of the view we should give players who are not completely awful at least two seasons - that includes Kuyt whose goal return is also modest

Hyypia has been a great servant but his lack of pace could limit his opportunity and I've heard via a number of sources that he may be on his way to Craven Cottage. If the reports of a £40m transfer fund are true then we should find ourselves another CB to challenge Agger for a place next to Carra

Kewell is a sicknote so probably should go, I'd like to give him a chance but know he'd probably not take it or get injured. It's hard to sell an injury prone player

Liverpool could sell Gonzalez, Pennant and a number of other players, but frankly what would be the point? We're unlikely to get lots of money for them and if they are happy to be used in rotation then I think they're good enough for that (for now) Review those kind of players at the end of December or the end of the season, too many changes COULD be too disruptive. After all we brought in several new players and it hit early season form, albeit there were some nasty away games early on.

And £40m is only £40m, if we sell off 6+ players how many quality strikers, wingers and so on can you get for £40m?

by **dawson99** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:33 am

come on, wheres spewart to say that Kuyt still isnt good enough. Blah blah blah, but Kuyt yet again did the job asked of him. Its his first season, hes bedded in well.

Waiting for the verbal diarhea (SP) and petty insults.

The bellamy to go thing is interesting. He does add a bit, but when we sign a striker in the summer will we really need bellamy? I dunno, but i think he may well be off in the summer as well.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:23 pm

Owzat wrote:Fowler should be given a new contract but probably won't be. He would provide good cover and could play in the cups.

Zenden is all but out the door as his contract is up

Crouch - love him or hate him his scoring record is not great and if Liverpool wish to win the league they need to buy goalscorers. I think he should be sold as he could raise a few million

Dudek has said he wants to stay but I can't see him getting enough games to make it worthwhile for either side. Carson has done well at Charlton and should be recalled - will anyone be happy to play second fiddle to Reina?

Bellamy is reportedly wanted by Villa who it is claimed would pay £7m. On his current returns that would be a wise sale, although I am of the view we should give players who are not completely awful at least two seasons - that includes Kuyt whose goal return is also modest

Hyypia has been a great servant but his lack of pace could limit his opportunity and I've heard via a number of sources that he may be on his way to Craven Cottage. If the reports of a £40m transfer fund are true then we should find ourselves another CB to challenge Agger for a place next to Carra

Kewell is a sicknote so probably should go, I'd like to give him a chance but know he'd probably not take it or get injured. It's hard to sell an injury prone player

Liverpool could sell Gonzalez, Pennant and a number of other players, but frankly what would be the point? We're unlikely to get lots of money for them and if they are happy to be used in rotation then I think they're good enough for that (for now) Review those kind of players at the end of December or the end of the season, too many changes COULD be too disruptive. After all we brought in several new players and it hit early season form, albeit there were some nasty away games early on.

And £40m is only £40m, if we sell off 6+ players how many quality strikers, wingers and so on can you get for £40m?

I pretty much agree with you Owzat but until yesterday I would have argued for Hyypia to get another season as well as Robbie and Kewell.

It sadly looked like time had at last caught up with big Sammi yesterday, which is hard for me to admit as I think he has been an awesome player for us. Great player with a great attitude and a wonderful servant to the club.

We need a fit Kewell no doubts or arguements, but if he can't get fit or keep fit we may have to look elsewhere.

Robbie in my view should get another season, but only if he is going to get the chance to play more. I dont want to remember Robbie sitting on a bench or coming on for the last 10mins of games, and if thats all he can expect I would rather he retired or went to the USA.

by **Smeg** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:26 pm

Il be

gutted if we sell Pennant and keep that clown Gonzalez.

by **destro** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:02 pm

DonnieDarko wrote:I don't post very much...

but some of you guys are straight up fools:

Joaquin is just not good enough. If any of you watched Chelsk play Valencia, You would have seen Joaquin and how awful he was. If you had told me two summers ago he was coming I would have been ecstatic, now I would be utterly disapointed.

then there's Quaresma who is a good football player but I just can't see him playing for Liverpool.

Not to mention it would be extremely foolish to drive off a player like Pennant, Gonzo, Bellamy, or Kuyt after only their first season unless of course they are utter rubbish (which none of them are). Prime example: Vidic

Not good enough on the result of ONE game

. Name me a player who is good in every game, if you are going to pass judgement on a player at least back it up with more than the evidence of ONE game. Two seasons ago you would of been "ecstatic" ? has he been consistantly bad in the last two years

The first two lines of your post explain a lot more than the rest

by **DonnieDarko** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:32 am

I am telling you that Joaquin has not fared well at Valencia. If he can't make it at Valencia there is no way he can make it at Liverpool.

by **red37** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:44 am

DonnieDarko wrote:I am telling you that Joaquin has not fared well at Valencia. If he can't make it at Valencia there is no way he can make it at Liverpool.

Ive seen all the games Valencia have been involved in on La Liga on Sky...and i have to say i agree by and large. Joaquin was exceptional in an ordinary Betis side. Now he has stepped up a level, the difference has shown up clearly. He is a decent player no doubt about it. But on current standing Pennant is at least his equal in terms of the amount of threat posed. £17 mill - i think Valencia were robbed.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:12 am

s@int wrote:
Owzat wrote:Fowler should be given a new contract but probably won't be. He would provide good cover and could play in the cups.

Zenden is all but out the door as his contract is up

Crouch - love him or hate him his scoring record is not great and if Liverpool wish to win the league they need to buy goalscorers. I think he should be sold as he could raise a few million

Dudek has said he wants to stay but I can't see him getting enough games to make it worthwhile for either side. Carson has done well at Charlton and should be recalled - will anyone be happy to play second fiddle to Reina?

Bellamy is reportedly wanted by Villa who it is claimed would pay £7m. On his current returns that would be a wise sale, although I am of the view we should give players who are not completely awful at least two seasons - that includes Kuyt whose goal return is also modest

Hyypia has been a great servant but his lack of pace could limit his opportunity and I've heard via a number of sources that he may be on his way to Craven Cottage. If the reports of a £40m transfer fund are true then we should find ourselves another CB to challenge Agger for a place next to Carra

Kewell is a sicknote so probably should go, I'd like to give him a chance but know he'd probably not take it or get injured. It's hard to sell an injury prone player

Liverpool could sell Gonzalez, Pennant and a number of other players, but frankly what would be the point? We're unlikely to get lots of money for them and if they are happy to be used in rotation then I think they're good enough for that (for now) Review those kind of players at the end of December or the end of the season, too many changes COULD be too disruptive. After all we brought in several new players and it hit early season form, albeit there were some nasty away games early on.

And £40m is only £40m, if we sell off 6+ players how many quality strikers, wingers and so on can you get for £40m?

I pretty much agree with you Owzat but until yesterday I would have argued for Hyypia to get another season as well as Robbie and Kewell.

It sadly looked like time had at last caught up with big Sammi yesterday, which is hard for me to admit as I think he has been an awesome player for us. Great player with a great attitude and a wonderful servant to the club.

We need a fit Kewell no doubts or arguements, but if he can't get fit or keep fit we may have to look elsewhere.

Robbie in my view should get another season, but only if he is going to get the chance to play more. I dont want to remember Robbie sitting on a bench or coming on for the last 10mins of games, and if thats all he can expect I would rather he retired or went to the USA.

Mate, your reference to Sami was it against Reading ?

Also if it was, are you sure you were watching the same game as me, I though Hyypia did a great job mate.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:27 am

He's still great in the air and at reading the game but I thought he was a yard off the pace against Reading (maybe cos he hasn't played much for a while) but I didn't see the full game only MOTD and part of the first half before my stream went, so maybe I shouldn't have made that comment.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:29 am

s@int wrote:He's still great in the air and at reading the game but I thought he was a yard off the pace against Reading (maybe cos he hasn't played much for a while) but I didn't see the full game only MOTD and part of the first half before my stream went, so maybe I shouldn't have made that comment.

Hmmmm............... Maybe

by **dawson99** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:34 am

No need to get rid of hypia yet. he wont play as many games next season but he can still doa job and agger can do a lot worse than learning from hyps and carra

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