Liverpool FC Forum

Stu.Murph wrote:... Now onto everyones favourate golden boy Daniel Agger.

Not good enough. End of. The lads a good player yes and is probably good enough as backup or even a second centre half but he's not good enough to allow us to play higher up the pitch or dominate a team arially. He's also not physically great, he isn't particularly fast, he's over eager at times to close down the ball and he's also very sloppy in possession when he brings the ball out from the back. Everyone points to the defensive record we have as an arguement...

In fairness the same applied to Emlyn, Thommo, Hansen etc.. they're paid stoppers, not to control the flow of the game, thats midfiled onwards. Roy of the Rover wasnt no centre back.

Similarly Momo isnt paid to bang them in from 40 yards as a goalscorer- because thats where he should be - in the centre of the field. Agree sloppy footwork is unacceptable at this level.

Tell you what though, we're not doing bad for a gang of no-hopers!   

Come on the reds tonight !!

Reg wrote:

Stu.Murph wrote:... Now onto everyones favourate golden boy Daniel Agger.

Not good enough. End of. The lads a good player yes and is probably good enough as backup or even a second centre half but he's not good enough to allow us to play higher up the pitch or dominate a team arially. He's also not physically great, he isn't particularly fast, he's over eager at times to close down the ball and he's also very sloppy in possession when he brings the ball out from the back. Everyone points to the defensive record we have as an arguement...

In fairness the same applied to Emlyn, Thommo, Hansen etc.. they're paid stoppers, not to control the flow of the game, thats midfiled onwards. Roy of the Rover wasnt no centre back.

Similarly Momo isnt paid to bang them in from 40 yards as a goalscorer- because thats where he should be - in the centre of the field. Agree sloppy footwork is unacceptable at this level.

Tell you what though, we're not doing bad for a gang of no-hopers!   

Come on the reds tonight !!

So effectively what you're saying is its ok for Momo and Agger to be limited as a player because thats what they're there for?

I'm sorry but the more limited the players in your team the less likely to win games you are. Simple as that.

Reg wrote:Before we judge how well Rafa has spent, what is the success rate for other teams? Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa etc..? They've all spent a sh!tload of cash with very few players turning out to be good buys.

Shevchenko, Ballack, SWP etc.. easily spring to mind and there's 60 million straght away!!

Am Sure the others have players they'd rather not be reminded of..... overall, Rafa's has a better hit rate than Ged did.

Reg wrote:Five good signings (no problem agreeing with you there) but a far greater number of poor ones. For the money he spent and the number he bought you're too darn righty we should expect a greater success rate. You also prefer to ignore that tactically he drove the team into the ground, for the last 2 seasons they lost all direction and became so negative it was painful.

A manager is judged as the sum of his purchases and his tactics and since Ged spent all the greenbacks, Rafa has had a greater emphasis on tactics to lift the performance of the team. And of course team spirit - which won us the cup in Istanbul.

To suggest that rafa should be given one more season is daft. We're building for the next 10-15 years here, not looking for a flash in the pan. Basis tonights game, the plan looks to be running its course wouldnt you say...?

Stu.Murph wrote:

Reg wrote:Before we judge how well Rafa has spent, what is the success rate for other teams? Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa etc..? They've all spent a sh!tload of cash with very few players turning out to be good buys.

Shevchenko, Ballack, SWP etc.. easily spring to mind and there's 60 million straght away!!

Am Sure the others have players they'd rather not be reminded of..... overall, Rafa's has a better hit rate than Ged did.

Rafa has a better rate than "Ged"?

I'm sorry but this is what really annoys me about supposed supporters of this club. Its enfuriating the way people talk about Gerard Houllier's reign. I'm telling you now, Houllier's best team was a damn site better than this side is now in terms of ability and personel and this side mostly includes players from Houllier's reign.

Houllier signed some bloody good players and built a good side that was very unfortunately to lose one of its best players at a crucial stage of the teams developement. He then lost his bottle and made some awful signings and the rests history. But if you really want to compare...

I put forward Houlliers best five... Henchoz, Hyypia, Babbel, McAllister, Hamann...
£14,250,000.

Benitez best 5. Alonso, Reina, Fowler, Luis Garcia and Crouch...
30,000,000.

Houllier was released at the right time. Rafa's signings this summer for me will judge weather he's up for the job or not. This next season is the defining one. If we don't look like winning it next season at least, its time for a change.

What The Feck you on you muppet !!

                 Title winning Team next season !!

                                Reina
                Woodgate      Carra        Aggar


   Alves              Alonso            Masch             Bale
         
                                  Gerrard

                     Villa                Crouch


         Yes a 3.5.2 or a 3.4.3

  Woodgate  8m
  Alves        15m
  Bale          12m
  Villa           28m       

Only other i would like to see is Quaresmo may be!!

Thats what we need !! 

As for Rafa he is the man and he will lead us back to the glory days. He is a happy chappy cause he is getting the support from the owners and can take us back where we belong. 

Stu.Murph wrote:With the exceptions of Alonso, Fowler, Reina and Luis Garcia none of his sigings have impressed me and Luis Garcia frustrates equally as much as he impresses.

The fact is he's missed out on better players than the ones he's signed and he's wasted far to much money on players like Kuyt and Gonzalez.

so Momo, Mascherano & Agger not good for you then?

and don't you think the reason he did not get higher profile signing (Alves, Joaquim, Villa etc) was down to the fact that the club do not have additional fundings for him to enter the market?

Santa wrote:

Stu.Murph wrote:With the exceptions of Alonso, Fowler, Reina and Luis Garcia none of his sigings have impressed me and Luis Garcia frustrates equally as much as he impresses.

The fact is he's missed out on better players than the ones he's signed and he's wasted far to much money on players like Kuyt and Gonzalez.

so Momo, Mascherano & Agger not good for you then?

and don't you think the reason he did not get higher profile signing (Alves, Joaquim, Villa etc) was down to the fact that the club do not have additional fundings for him to enter the market?

I find the signings of Crouch, Bellamy, Kuyt and Sissoko a joke considering he could have had Ashton, Anelka, Bullard, Woodgate etc etc for the same if not less money.

Where did I even once mention Mascherano either please?

RedBlood wrote:stu needs to calm down

you make some good points but to suggest agger isnt anything but top class is madness

and kuyt is a very good footballer he isnt going to score 20 plus goals when he is as much a midfielder as a striker he like crouch and bellamy offer alot more then goals and when rafa signs that goal scorer we are after you will see what they offer

sissoko is a very good player to have in our squad there isnt a more destructive force in the game he does lack in other areas but no one is perfect and we have other players to do the passing

plus you also said somewhere in your rants that steven gerrard isnt good going forward? ? come on mate dont make idiot claims just to get peoples back up whats the point

Stu.Murph wrote:

RedBlood wrote:stu needs to calm down

you make some good points but to suggest agger isnt anything but top class is madness

and kuyt is a very good footballer he isnt going to score 20 plus goals when he is as much a midfielder as a striker he like crouch and bellamy offer alot more then goals and when rafa signs that goal scorer we are after you will see what they offer

sissoko is a very good player to have in our squad there isnt a more destructive force in the game he does lack in other areas but no one is perfect and we have other players to do the passing

plus you also said somewhere in your rants that steven gerrard isnt good going forward? ? come on mate dont make idiot claims just to get peoples back up whats the point

I already "see what the offer" mate. I've played and coached the game since I was a little nipper. I practically study the game. I know about percentages and I know what the "Correct" things to do in certain situations are and why. But that doesn't detract from the fact the strikers we have don't score enough goals and don't do enough. Simple as that.

Ability matters ALOT. Then tactics to get the best out of certain players ability which this season Benitez has completely failed to do in alot of cases.

You then go onto Sissoko, Sissoko wins the ball then gives it away straight away. He's as distructive to us as the opposition at times which simply isn't on.

And I didn't say Gerrard isn't good going forward. I said he's not great and he simply isn't. Zidane was great. Gerrard is just "good".

Gerrard's EASILY as good defensively as he is attacking wise and any fool suggesting playing him in the hole is talking complete rubbish. It makes me laugh when people say you lose 50% of his game when he's in the holding role... but completely fail to acknowledge you lose the other 50% when he's in an attacking role...

Hypocrytes.

Elchris wrote:

Stu.Murph wrote:

RedBlood wrote:stu needs to calm down

you make some good points but to suggest agger isnt anything but top class is madness

and kuyt is a very good footballer he isnt going to score 20 plus goals when he is as much a midfielder as a striker he like crouch and bellamy offer alot more then goals and when rafa signs that goal scorer we are after you will see what they offer

sissoko is a very good player to have in our squad there isnt a more destructive force in the game he does lack in other areas but no one is perfect and we have other players to do the passing

plus you also said somewhere in your rants that steven gerrard isnt good going forward? ? come on mate dont make idiot claims just to get peoples back up whats the point

I already "see what the offer" mate. I've played and coached the game since I was a little nipper. I practically study the game. I know about percentages and I know what the "Correct" things to do in certain situations are and why. But that doesn't detract from the fact the strikers we have don't score enough goals and don't do enough. Simple as that.

Ability matters ALOT. Then tactics to get the best out of certain players ability which this season Benitez has completely failed to do in alot of cases.

You then go onto Sissoko, Sissoko wins the ball then gives it away straight away. He's as distructive to us as the opposition at times which simply isn't on.

And I didn't say Gerrard isn't good going forward. I said he's not great and he simply isn't. Zidane was great. Gerrard is just "good".

Gerrard's EASILY as good defensively as he is attacking wise and any fool suggesting playing him in the hole is talking complete rubbish. It makes me laugh when people say you lose 50% of his game when he's in the holding role... but completely fail to acknowledge you lose the other 50% when he's in an attacking role...

Hypocrytes.