After the robbery - What should happen next

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby ivor_the_injun » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:44 pm

Sickening game to watch earlier today against the Mancs. I was bracing myself for being frustrated for being held to 0-0, but for them to pick our pockets like that was just soul-destroying.

Reflecting several hours later however, I am still heartened that we could go at the team that are on the verge of cantering to the league title, and making them look utterly, utterly ordinary. All this season I've been hearing about how their back 4 have been awesome, but we made Evra and Vidic look absolutely terrible.

When the dust finally settles, however, this is exactly the kind of game that tells us about where we are and what we need to do next to bring the title back home.

One thing we definitely need is to get on the training field and put in day after day practising corners. Our set piece delivery has been woeful for far too long now, and in the end today it added up to the difference between the two sides. With the height we've got in the side, we should be good for a goal every other game from corners, but it just doesn't look like happening.

Perfect example: we had 12 corners today to Man U's 2, but we didn't look remotely threatening with any of them. At the  death, with the ref allowing time for 1 more corner before blowing for full time, Aurelio didn't even clear their man on the near post. If the shoe had have been on the other foot, I bet Man U would have at least made Reina work to keep us out of the game.

Similarly, we each had a dead ball from the edge of the opposing box. To be fair, Riise couldn't have hit his better. However, they had one from our right back position, and they made it count.

THAT is why they're going to be champions. Getting a sniff and taking it. They're well drilled into making things happen when they seemingly have no right to, and unfortunately that's where we're falling short.

The good news is that we clearly have players that are capable of making these things happen. Quite why they're not making use of set-pieces as a valuable resource I just can't understand.

The left still looks like a problem position, although I thought Gonzalez had one of his brighter halves for us in the first 45. Would have loved to have seen him go at Neville though, instead of constantly trying to string together one-twos to get him into space near the byline. Someone needs to take him to one side and explain that he's no good to us unless he's dominating the full back. He's clearly got energy to burn that he's not tapping into, and every time you see him retreat with the ball you pine for a fit Kewell.

On the right we got joy all afternoon however, and Gerrard and Bellamy were beating Evra for fun. Pennant for Bellamy was a terrible substitution however, and we looked a lot less dynamic without him. Gerrard needs to do his work further up the field however - in recent games he almost looks like he doesn't trust himself to attack at times. In the long run I think we need another signing here, but for now Stevie just needs to watch tapes of himself in that position from this time last year.

Defensively I thought we were excellent today, and even Riise emerged with credit to that end against one of his biggest tests of the season in Ronaldo. He's still not bossing the position in the same way Finnan does, and now that Aurelio's back I think Rafa may bench him at some point.

The central mid question still comes up whenever we see a poor Sissoko performance. It was Alonso that bossed the midfield today, but now that Mascherano's at the club, I think the question of whether Sissoko should start is one that can be resolved by switching him out like for like with the Argentinian as opposed to constantly moving Gerrard around.

And finally we come to the strikers. Bellamy was excellent, Kuyt worked hard, and Crouch always seemed involved whenever we were marauding towards the Man U box. All for naught though. I don't think there's anyone on the board here that doesn't think we're going to spend big on a striker in summer now, and today was a plain-as-day illustration of why it simply has to happen.

It all added up to 90 minutes of an incredibly enjoyable display of the team I love crushing our fiercest rivals all over the pitch. Unfortunately, with 4 minutes of absolute agony tagged on the end as a PS, reminding us that however good we played, we don't look like champions yet.

In short, three signings can bring us the title next season. In the meantime, we really need to get those f*cking corners sorted out.

Walk on, red men and women. It was a defeat that will be avenged, all in good time.

Barcelona - we've got a point to prove, and you have my condolences that you're going to suffer as a result. :buttrock
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Postby Marianne » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:49 pm

yeah, we'll get barcelona, we can still contend for the title!!! Well, the champo league one anyway! :blues:
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Postby Scottbot » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:43 pm

A lot of good points there Ace and you pretty much echo my thoughts. If it had finished up one nil we would all have been dissapointed but no doubt everyone would have been raving about the performance. But a late goal (even if it is against 90 minutes run of play) puts a completely different perplexion on things and it's hard to see the positives. Can't believe i turned round to my mate chuffed to bits (not that he had done anything) when Rooney came off for O'Shea :-( That was like Finnan or Sissoko winning it for us.

Spot on with the corners. We suck at set-pieces and i would have Stevie in the box (easy to forget what a good header of the ball he is) every time on corners. Let Riise (who can hit them flat with a bit of zip) or Alonso take the corners coz Stevie often puts em too deep or doesn't clear the first man and we also play a few too many short corners.

As for what we need in order to make the next step i think it's pretty obvious. Bellamy can cause problems but it's clear we need to find ourselves a 'special' player to partner Kuyt (who was excellent today.) next season. The likes of Villa and E'to have been mooted so if we've got the money and the new board are really serious about the future then that is the type of player the club should go after. On top of that it's obvious we need some quality on the left-hand side. So perhaps we only need two more players but they've got too be good ones.

Can't wait for Tuesday to get this taste out of my mouth.
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Postby peterc1992 » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:54 pm

:censored: off about the result but we have to be able to finish games if we have any chance next year of landing the title,man utd in tru champs style sneaked one and  we need to be able to do that aswell,we need to be able to sneak games that are not ours if we want to win the league.We must be able to turn our possesion into goals and our domination into goals,which we didnt do,and we were punished.
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Postby Red Red Tom » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:56 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:Sickening game to watch earlier today against the Mancs. I was bracing myself for being frustrated for being held to 0-0, but for them to pick our pockets like that was just soul-destroying.

Reflecting several hours later however, I am still heartened that we could go at the team that are on the verge of cantering to the league title, and making them look utterly, utterly ordinary. All this season I've been hearing about how their back 4 have been awesome, but we made Evra and Vidic look absolutely terrible.

When the dust finally settles, however, this is exactly the kind of game that tells us about where we are and what we need to do next to bring the title back home.

One thing we definitely need is to get on the training field and put in day after day practising corners. Our set piece delivery has been woeful for far too long now, and in the end today it added up to the difference between the two sides. With the height we've got in the side, we should be good for a goal every other game from corners, but it just doesn't look like happening.

Perfect example: we had 12 corners today to Man U's 2, but we didn't look remotely threatening with any of them. At the  death, with the ref allowing time for 1 more corner before blowing for full time, Aurelio didn't even clear their man on the near post. If the shoe had have been on the other foot, I bet Man U would have at least made Reina work to keep us out of the game.

Similarly, we each had a dead ball from the edge of the opposing box. To be fair, Riise couldn't have hit his better. However, they had one from our right back position, and they made it count.

THAT is why they're going to be champions. Getting a sniff and taking it. They're well drilled into making things happen when they seemingly have no right to, and unfortunately that's where we're falling short.

The good news is that we clearly have players that are capable of making these things happen. Quite why they're not making use of set-pieces as a valuable resource I just can't understand.

The left still looks like a problem position, although I thought Gonzalez had one of his brighter halves for us in the first 45. Would have loved to have seen him go at Neville though, instead of constantly trying to string together one-twos to get him into space near the byline. Someone needs to take him to one side and explain that he's no good to us unless he's dominating the full back. He's clearly got energy to burn that he's not tapping into, and every time you see him retreat with the ball you pine for a fit Kewell.

On the right we got joy all afternoon however, and Gerrard and Bellamy were beating Evra for fun. Pennant for Bellamy was a terrible substitution however, and we looked a lot less dynamic without him. Gerrard needs to do his work further up the field however - in recent games he almost looks like he doesn't trust himself to attack at times. In the long run I think we need another signing here, but for now Stevie just needs to watch tapes of himself in that position from this time last year.

Defensively I thought we were excellent today, and even Riise emerged with credit to that end against one of his biggest tests of the season in Ronaldo. He's still not bossing the position in the same way Finnan does, and now that Aurelio's back I think Rafa may bench him at some point.

The central mid question still comes up whenever we see a poor Sissoko performance. It was Alonso that bossed the midfield today, but now that Mascherano's at the club, I think the question of whether Sissoko should start is one that can be resolved by switching him out like for like with the Argentinian as opposed to constantly moving Gerrard around.

And finally we come to the strikers. Bellamy was excellent, Kuyt worked hard, and Crouch always seemed involved whenever we were marauding towards the Man U box. All for naught though. I don't think there's anyone on the board here that doesn't think we're going to spend big on a striker in summer now, and today was a plain-as-day illustration of why it simply has to happen.

It all added up to 90 minutes of an incredibly enjoyable display of the team I love crushing our fiercest rivals all over the pitch. Unfortunately, with 4 minutes of absolute agony tagged on the end as a PS, reminding us that however good we played, we don't look like champions yet.

In short, three signings can bring us the title next season. In the meantime, we really need to get those f*cking corners sorted out.

Walk on, red men and women. It was a defeat that will be avenged, all in good time.

Barcelona - we've got a point to prove, and you have my condolences that you're going to suffer as a result. :buttrock

Top, top post.  Couldn't get to the game today; but I'll be there on Tuesday, which after all means a lot more in the context of OUR season.  United is, and always will be a massive game - but when we're out of the running for a league title but pretty much certain of the CL spot, the league games lose a bit of thier gloss compared to the European charge.  That's not to say it wasn't sickening, or that I'm for one moment not fuming - but if we had to lose one of the two games, I would have chosen this one.  Sadly it doesn't work like that, but if we can go through on Tuesday I really fancy us to give it a very good go this year.

Also, I think we'd beat almost all of the teams left in the CL.  After the robbery sometimes comes the trial and the punishement.  I feel the same unfinished business with United now that I felt when Chelsea beat us in the Carling Cup final - kind of a faith that justice will be done.  If we get them in the Champions League I will be very confident.  And I hope we do.

I think we'd beat Chelsea as well.  Arsenal might have the Indian sign over us at present, and I wouldn't fancy playing Valencia, although I'd love the chance to sell the Anfield Experience to Villa...  If Inter knock out Valencia then so much the better.  Lyon might be a banana - but it would be nice to see Ged to well, so I can't make myself want them to go out.  We'd take Madrid/Bayern, or Milan.  But really I want United now.

Revenge.

Bring on Barca.  Bring on the draw.

YNWA

Sorry to turn this into a thread about the European Cup - but I guess that is after the robbery.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:14 pm

Absolutely gutted at the moment. I may be able to see positives later but at the moment I am just heartbroken. The lucky robbing :censored:, I am still having trouble believing we lost, sick as a parrot.
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Postby jonnymac1979 » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:22 pm

Scottbot wrote:We suck at set-pieces and i would have Stevie in the box (easy to forget what a good header of the ball he is) every time on corners.

One of the biggest pet-hates I've had for a couple of years now.  Get Gerrard in that fucking box when we've got a corner.

And pack those short corners in.  We're a team full of big lads, let's get some crosses in.
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Postby Aaron » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:29 pm

Sickening game to watch earlier today against the Mancs. I was bracing myself for being frustrated for being held to 0-0, but for them to pick our pockets like that was just soul-destroying.

Reflecting several hours later however, I am still heartened that we could go at the team that are on the verge of cantering to the league title, and making them look utterly, utterly ordinary. All this season I've been hearing about how their back 4 have been awesome, but we made Evra and Vidic look absolutely terrible.

When the dust finally settles, however, this is exactly the kind of game that tells us about where we are and what we need to do next to bring the title back home.

One thing we definitely need is to get on the training field and put in day after day practising corners. Our set piece delivery has been woeful for far too long now, and in the end today it added up to the difference between the two sides. With the height we've got in the side, we should be good for a goal every other game from corners, but it just doesn't look like happening.

Perfect example: we had 12 corners today to Man U's 2, but we didn't look remotely threatening with any of them. At the  death, with the ref allowing time for 1 more corner before blowing for full time, Aurelio didn't even clear their man on the near post. If the shoe had have been on the other foot, I bet Man U would have at least made Reina work to keep us out of the game.

Similarly, we each had a dead ball from the edge of the opposing box. To be fair, Riise couldn't have hit his better. However, they had one from our right back position, and they made it count.

THAT is why they're going to be champions. Getting a sniff and taking it. They're well drilled into making things happen when they seemingly have no right to, and unfortunately that's where we're falling short.

The good news is that we clearly have players that are capable of making these things happen. Quite why they're not making use of set-pieces as a valuable resource I just can't understand.

The left still looks like a problem position, although I thought Gonzalez had one of his brighter halves for us in the first 45. Would have loved to have seen him go at Neville though, instead of constantly trying to string together one-twos to get him into space near the byline. Someone needs to take him to one side and explain that he's no good to us unless he's dominating the full back. He's clearly got energy to burn that he's not tapping into, and every time you see him retreat with the ball you pine for a fit Kewell.

On the right we got joy all afternoon however, and Gerrard and Bellamy were beating Evra for fun. Pennant for Bellamy was a terrible substitution however, and we looked a lot less dynamic without him. Gerrard needs to do his work further up the field however - in recent games he almost looks like he doesn't trust himself to attack at times. In the long run I think we need another signing here, but for now Stevie just needs to watch tapes of himself in that position from this time last year.

Defensively I thought we were excellent today, and even Riise emerged with credit to that end against one of his biggest tests of the season in Ronaldo. He's still not bossing the position in the same way Finnan does, and now that Aurelio's back I think Rafa may bench him at some point.

The central mid question still comes up whenever we see a poor Sissoko performance. It was Alonso that bossed the midfield today, but now that Mascherano's at the club, I think the question of whether Sissoko should start is one that can be resolved by switching him out like for like with the Argentinian as opposed to constantly moving Gerrard around.

And finally we come to the strikers. Bellamy was excellent, Kuyt worked hard, and Crouch always seemed involved whenever we were marauding towards the Man U box. All for naught though. I don't think there's anyone on the board here that doesn't think we're going to spend big on a striker in summer now, and today was a plain-as-day illustration of why it simply has to happen.

It all added up to 90 minutes of an incredibly enjoyable display of the team I love crushing our fiercest rivals all over the pitch. Unfortunately, with 4 minutes of absolute agony tagged on the end as a PS, reminding us that however good we played, we don't look like champions yet.

In short, three signings can bring us the title next season. In the meantime, we really need to get those f*cking corners sorted out.

Walk on, red men and women. It was a defeat that will be avenged, all in good time.

Barcelona - we've got a point to prove, and you have my condolences that you're going to suffer as a result. :buttrock


Top post. Totally gutted after today. Thought we dominated throughout most of the game. Agree that we are poor on set-pieces. I don't think we utilise our height enough. Some may disagree but i thought Robbie might have at the very least got a spot on the bench after scoring two last week. I do think we need someone special to partner Kuyt and IMO Owen is the best option, though i doubt he'll leave Newcastle. Villa would be another good option but i dont think Voronin is the best option. Not proven and hasnt really been chased by top clubs in his career. You never know, he may spring a suprise and turnout to be a great signing. Eto'o would be my preferred choice though. Pace, Skill and a good finisher is what we need. We have the funds there, hope Rafa uses it well. As for Tuesday night, if we can defend like we have at home all season then i cant see any reason why we wont go through
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Postby Igor Zidane » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:29 pm

Top post ivor. I've got it all out of my system now and i'm really looking forward to tuesday. We've got bigger fish to fry and hopefully if we get through to the next round we'll draw the mancs and put them in there place ,which is FOREVER IN OUR SHADOW.

We all knew that the Barca game was the important one, yes i wanted to win today ,but come tuesday if and when we've qualified for the next round this match will be long forgotten. COME ON REDMEN!!!
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Postby 66-1120597113 » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:02 am

Well said ivor.....all true!!
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Postby red37 » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:37 am

As the dust gradually settles on yet another encouraging performance, albeit one devoid of a share of the deserved spoils of  victory, through ill Luck, bad timing and a lack of concentration amongst other factors.  Hindsight and the benefits of a reinvigorating kip aside....Iam a staunch believer in the philosophy that 'you reap what you sow'.  A concept that has so far bore a fair share of ripe fruit for this managers efforts.  To those lengths even the hardiest/clueless of critics cannot truthfully point the wavering finger of dissent at our club yesterday after that gritty display of defiance (at least for 91 minutes they cant) with any real conviction.

For the greater part of this match, Liverpool simply were the better side, but - 'Them's the breaks'.

For my money, and despite mourning the death of an amirable unbeaten 30 game home stretch, there were many positives outweighing the eventual outcome of this latest result.  Only the history books and a week of uncomfortable banter from work/school mates will highlight the relevance of yesterdays game. Which isnt significant enough to matter towards title aims in this season now anyway, sadly.

But in an encounter overshadowed by the work of Thieves, Vagabonds and men with dubious Brown paper bags concealing their inspiration to name but three factions at work within the Hallowed ramparts of "Fortress Anfield" yesterday noon...The majority of us remaining firm of body and mind, if not spirit, will emerge 'Pupae' like from their chemically imbibed slumber this mornin to the usual raucous cacophony of nasal, asinine taunts and written vitriol aimed at the underbelly of all the good work Rafa Benitez has strived hard to instill within his charges to date....Many will see folly in his ways, some will again demand his head on a platter festooned with crisp leaves. (?) 

The reality remains that things are not in poor health, either on or off the pitch.  Sure, there are areas that technically need addressing, set pieces is one glaring void, as is the wing play.  But for want of not oversimplifying the situation. It was a decent performance by the lads ruined by switching off too early. That is all.

Oh.....and the fact that we aren't in possession of a finisher worthy of the name. Yet.
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Postby metalhead » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:44 am

jonnymac1979 wrote:
Scottbot wrote:We suck at set-pieces and i would have Stevie in the box (easy to forget what a good header of the ball he is) every time on corners.

One of the biggest pet-hates I've had for a couple of years now.  Get Gerrard in that fucking box when we've got a corner.

And pack those short corners in.  We're a team full of big lads, let's get some crosses in.

Agreed with both of you, he proved it many times that he is a threat in the box.
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Postby parchpea » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:26 pm

Though we had plenty of ball yesterday we did not create enough openings.

At the end of the day its the old chesnut that we need more quality in the first choice 11 to compete for this league. Until then we will continue to face bad days against our most fierce rivals.

Utd showed us respect by making an unusual choice to play for a point. We almost bring on those last gasp defeats ourselves because they have done it to us time and time again over the years. You can feel the tension in those moments not only with fans but the players. Its as if we suck the ball into our own goal.

Tale of two keepers in many ways. Theirs keeps them in it and ours spills the ball. Dont our keepers always do that against Utd? Really, Reina is not out of the top drawer. His goals against record is impressive but I put that down to a reliable defence and organised formation in front of him.

Hopefully the players can pick themselves up after this heartbreaking defeat and put on a good show against Barcelona. Its going to be very difficult.

I just pray that this summer we will finally see the kind of quality footballers arriving so we can bury the bitter memories of days like yesterday.
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Postby CardinalRed » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:48 pm

Jocky hit the nail on the head on MOTD last night, he said the absence of a 20-a-season hitman is the overriding main reason for our current position..... We were crying out for a poacher yesterday (a la Robbie in his prime, Van Nistelrooy, Ian Wright etc) If it is at all possible, Samuel E'to should become our number 1 target..... Oh, and please, please, please practice our dead ball delivery more....!

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Postby Bad Bob » Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:41 pm

Great post Ivor.  I agree with virtually every word of it...especially how disappointingly predictable we are at corners/set pieces.  The Mancs always look like scoring from their set pieces whereas we just look toothless.  I've come to hate it when a good move ends in a corner for us--it almost always comes to nothing and seems to undo the good work that led to the corner in the first place.  I'd like to see Alonso taking right-footed corners if Pennant's not on the pitch to allow Gerrard to be in the box.  Stick Riise out beyond the box to have a crack if the ball is half cleared and, FFS, knock off the short corners, the near post corners (never clear the first man) and the balloon balls to the back of the box.  Drive them into the heart of the box and get our bigger lads attacking them at pace.
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