This riise debate - Lets see then.

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Bad Bob » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:17 pm

A.B. wrote:And guess who had another poor game today? Our favorite Ginger.  :D

I wouldn't go so far as to call him poor.  Sure, he got sucked in by Kazim-Richards toward the end and that almost cost us a goal, otherwise, I thought he was solid.  He certainly did well to bomb forward: he set Gonzales up nicely for what could have been a lovely goal and he had a decent lash at one.

On Sabre's point about stamina as well, he did play the full 90 today after playing the full 90 on Wednesday.  And, he was still covering a lot of ground late on today.  He's got a hell of a work ethic and I respect that, even if he lacks that little bit of defensive solidity that would make him a truly top LB.
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Postby A.B. » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:21 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
A.B. wrote:And guess who had another poor game today? Our favorite Ginger.  :D

I wouldn't go so far as to call him poor.  Sure, he got sucked in by Kazim-Richards toward the end and that almost cost us a goal, otherwise, I thought he was solid.  He certainly did well to bomb forward: he set Gonzales up nicely for what could have been a lovely goal and he had a decent lash at one.

On Sabre's point about stamina as well, he did play the full 90 today after playing the full 90 on Wednesday.  And, he was still covering a lot of ground late on today.  He's got a hell of a work ethic and I respect that, even if he lacks that little bit of defensive solidity that would make him a truly top LB.

I hope to Fowler that he doesn't play LB against Barca at Anfield.
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Postby Bad Bob » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:27 pm

A.B. wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
A.B. wrote:And guess who had another poor game today? Our favorite Ginger.  :D

I wouldn't go so far as to call him poor.  Sure, he got sucked in by Kazim-Richards toward the end and that almost cost us a goal, otherwise, I thought he was solid.  He certainly did well to bomb forward: he set Gonzales up nicely for what could have been a lovely goal and he had a decent lash at one.

On Sabre's point about stamina as well, he did play the full 90 today after playing the full 90 on Wednesday.  And, he was still covering a lot of ground late on today.  He's got a hell of a work ethic and I respect that, even if he lacks that little bit of defensive solidity that would make him a truly top LB.

I hope to Fowler that he doesn't play LB against Barca at Anfield.

Nah, I suspect we'll see him at LM again with Aurelio (if fit) or Arbeloa in behind.

He's well good enough to play LB against most Premiership opposition, though.  :nod
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Postby account deleted by request » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:47 pm

Alot of Riise's problems appear to be because of off the field problems. After his problematic marriage, we now hear (Mail on Sunday) that he also has debts of over £1.5million in Norway. While this sum may not seem that significant to you and me it may be a concern to a poor footballer :D
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Postby HantsRed » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:22 pm

Sabre wrote:I've been a defender of Riise for quite a while. When Rafa arrived I didn't think he'd convince Rafa. But no matter who arrived to the club, no matter he wasn't in the initial plans of Rafa, he eventually ends playing regularly every year, and that means something. Nobody has given Riise anything for free, he has earnt every drop of respect he has.

Important in some of the aspects of our game like the throw ins -that also counts mates-, important due to his stamina, he's there to score because at min 75 he has the stamine to run and reach this positions, when the opposition is tired, he breaks them down with one of his runs... John Arne Riise won't be ever a popular Spanish liga player but I think any decent manager would consider him a great team player. We can't do a team with fashionable players, we need men like Riise.

He's not great defending but he's not bad neither, and with the things I've already mentioned letting alone his goals I think he's a versatile and useful player.

Agreed 100%.

I would be really disappointed if we let Riise go. No player is perfect but as has already been said, I really don't think there are many better alternatives out there, particularly with the versatility Riise offers at left midfield.

Come to think of it, I can't think of a better left back at Liverpool since Alan Kennedy.
...... Burrows, Ablett, Warnock, Dicks, Harkness, Babb, Staunton, Ziege, Bjornbye, Matteo, Traore - I'll take Riise any day!
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Postby RedBlood » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:01 pm

Riise isnt good enough
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Postby RedBlood » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:01 pm

riise probally is the best leftback we have had for a while but if you look at the list you have written that aint nothin to brag about

hes a good squad player not a first teamer
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Postby Ace Ventura » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:49 pm

Scottbot wrote:I think the lad gets a hard time on here and there seems to be this misconseption that we could never win the title with someone like Jonny Riise at left-back. I just read that 'He's a good player not a great player' but it sounded more like a criticism. Championship winning sides are full of good players, very good players and a couple of great ones. Dennis Irwin won a stack of medals at utd and i don't see much difference between him and our Jonny. Steve Finnan doesn't get any criticism on here, but has/is he really playing so much better? Why aren't we talking about the fact he offers so little (compared to Riise) from an attacking point of view?

Has our defence been so good these last couple of years in spite of Riise?

Scott do you actually believe that Riise is as steady a left back as Denis Irwin ?
He isnt in the same league defensively although obviously i would accept he is a big game player that scores vital goals.
The reason why he is not good enough is because he gives the ball away 9 times out of 10 if there isnt a safe 5 yard pass on.
Dont get me wrong i like the lad and know he has done alot for us but he still gives away possesion far too often and far too easily !
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Postby Sabre » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:44 pm

The reason why he is not good enough is because he gives the ball away 9 times out of 10 if there isnt a safe 5 yard pass on.


I will analyse this point in the next matches. I think Agger and Hyypia have given the ball away with bad long ball decissions more than Riise, to be honest, nobody seems to emphasize that though. Riise shouldn't do complicated passes because it's not his task. I didn't notice that point of giving the ball away often, but I'll have a better look.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:56 am

Sabre wrote:
The reason why he is not good enough is because he gives the ball away 9 times out of 10 if there isnt a safe 5 yard pass on.


I will analyse this point in the next matches. I think Agger and Hyypia have given the ball away with bad long ball decissions more than Riise, to be honest, nobody seems to emphasize that though. Riise shouldn't do complicated passes because it's not his task. I didn't notice that point of giving the ball away often, but I'll have a better look.

Agreed.

Hyypia is probably just as bad if not worse than Riise for pumping long balls forward, it actually annoys me to the extent of real frustration. As you said nobody picks up on that. This annoys me not just because, 9/10 he lumps it into the possesion of the opposition, or that he bypasses a world class midfield. It annoys me more than anything because he can play the ball on the deck, Hyypia can pass and is a good short passer of the ball.

As for Riise, I agree with Scottbot that Riise does get a hard time on here. 20 pages worth infact, I would of thought a player like Torben Picknick would of got 20 pages of critisim. But not a  player who has been in the best defence for a couple of seasons.
Dont get me wrong he has been at his best this season, this has probably been his worst by his steady standards. He's still a very usefull player to this Liverpool team I think.

Maybe him and Hyypia should just concerntrate on playing the ball on the deck, and simple.
Last edited by 66-1112520797 on Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:11 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Sabre wrote:
The reason why he is not good enough is because he gives the ball away 9 times out of 10 if there isnt a safe 5 yard pass on.


I will analyse this point in the next matches. I think Agger and Hyypia have given the ball away with bad long ball decissions more than Riise, to be honest, nobody seems to emphasize that though. Riise shouldn't do complicated passes because it's not his task. I didn't notice that point of giving the ball away often, but I'll have a better look.

Agreed.

Hyypia is probably just as bad if not worse than Riise for pumping long balls forward, it actually annoys me to the extent of real frustration. As you said nobody picks up on that. This annoys me not just because, 9/10 he lumps it into the possesion of the opposition, or that he bypasses a world class midfield. It annoys me more than anything because he can play the ball on the deck, Hyypia can pass and is a good short passer of the ball.

As for Riise, I agree with Scottbot that Riise does get a hard time on here. 20 pages worth infact, I would of thought a player like Torben Picknick would of got 20 pages of critisim. But not a  player who has been in the best defence for a couple of seasons.
Dont get me wrong he has been at his best this season, this has probably been his worst by his steady standards. He's still a very usefull player to this Liverpool team I think.

Maybe him and Hyypia should just concerntrate on playing the ball on the deck, and simple.

Thats why Sami (sadly) is only bit part these days.
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Postby Ace Ventura » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:25 pm

I agree that Hyypia does also give the ball away with the same hopeful punts upfield and to be fair so does Carragher at times.
It is hugely frustrating when you have players like Alonso and Gerrard who can use the ball properly.
But in my opinion, full backs should have better composure. Finnan on the opposite side might not be the goal threat that Riise is but he uses the ball so much better and keeps posession and attacks flowing.
There is 20 pages worth of debate not total criticism and thats because he scores spectacular goals.
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Postby Scottbot » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:46 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:Scott do you actually believe that Riise is as steady a left back as Denis Irwin ?
He isnt in the same league defensively although obviously i would accept he is a big game player that scores vital goals.
The reason why he is not good enough is because he gives the ball away 9 times out of 10 if there isnt a safe 5 yard pass on.
Dont get me wrong i like the lad and know he has done alot for us but he still gives away possesion far too often and far too easily !

Just my opinion Ace , i accept he has the odd moment defensively but i have always liked him as a player. I remember that his distribution was pretty awful in Ged's last season and he was guilty of way too many long balls but (for me) he has been back on his game since Rafa came in.

He deffo gets a hard time on here. You say he isn't too great defensively and he pretty much always gives the ball away if there is no-one within 5 yards of him? But how the hell did we win a European Cup, an FA Cup plus turning in the best defensive record in the league (or thereabouts) for the last 2 seasons with this guy playing in out back four!?

Finnan, Carra and Sami must be pretty special to carry a guy like that. A back four is a unit. If one player in that unit is off their game or their is a weak link you get found out. How often do we get found out?
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Postby Ace Ventura » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:07 pm

Scottbot wrote:[Just my opinion Ace , i accept he has the odd moment defensively but i have always liked him as a player. I remember that his distribution was pretty awful in Ged's last season and he was guilty of way too many long balls but (for me) he has been back on his game since Rafa came in.

He deffo gets a hard time on here. You say he isn't too great defensively and he pretty much always gives the ball away if there is no-one within 5 yards of him? But how the hell did we win a European Cup, an FA Cup plus turning in the best defensive record in the league (or thereabouts) for the last 2 seasons with this guy playing in out back four!?

Finnan, Carra and Sami must be pretty special to carry a guy like that. A back four is a unit. If one player in that unit is off their game or their is a weak link you get found out. How often do we get found out?

I do accept that he was part of the best back 4 last season and has been part of the best back 4 again this season.
But he does get beat one v one too often, there are moments where my heart is in my mouth watching him defend...he stands square too often and gets caught on his heels and by the time he has turned the player is gone.
Rafa sets out the team in most games in a compact way so that even if one player is a bit suspect defensively another player will cover in virtually every attacking scenario.
Also lets be honest, we are one of the top sides around and will spend far more time attacking in most games than defending.
I would never be one to moan or slate him at the match but on a message board like this, then i am just giving my opinion, that is if we want ti win the league, he should not be first choice, for that he would need to improve distribution, and his defending, because i think they are two of the things you absolutely should be good at if you are a full back.
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Postby account deleted by request » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:43 am

As I have repeatedly stated, Riise's lack of form this season has more to do with his off the field problems than any lack of ability etc. Again we see some of the problems that a great deal of money and a small amount of brain/time can create.

Riise takes former agent to court in pursuit of £3m fraud
By Sam Wallace
Published: 09 March 2007
The Liverpool midfielder John Arne Riise is at the centre of one of the biggest fraud cases in football and is pursuing his former agent through the Norwegian courts for around £3m in what is proving a salutary lesson to Premiership stars and the way in which they invest their fortunes.

Riise might have emerged relatively unscathed from the golf club attack by Craig Bellamy at Liverpool's Portugal training camp last month but his finances are proving much more difficult to straighten out. The Norwegian court official Odd Jo Forsell confirmed to The Independent yesterday that Riise is claiming a total of 37m kroner (£3.1m) from Einar Baardsen, the agent from whom he split in 2005.

However, Baardsen, who has been registered as bankrupt in Norway, has denied Riise's claim and says he will counter-claim for 9m kroner (£750,000) from the player. The case is currently in the hands of administrators who are deciding what assets Baardsen has to share among his creditors and, once that is completed, the dispute between the two parties is likely to be decided in court in the Norwegian town of Stavanger.

The money that Riise is claiming has gone missing was allegedly taken out in loans unauthorised by him but taken out in his name.

Riise has privately admitted that he signed documents on Baardsen's recommendation without scrutinising the detail. Investments also include a hotel that went out of business and the fear is that if Riise cannot obtain the funds from Baardsen, he may have to cover the costs of certain creditors himself.

As one of the generation of Premiership footballers who has been around for the golden years of big salaries, Riise's case shows that footballers and their wealth can be vulnerable. Bought by Gérard Houllier from Monaco in the summer of 2001, Riise has also been a major part of Rafael Benitez's first team. While not one of the club's biggest stars, he signed a new contract last January that keeps him at the club until 2009.

Riise told the Norwegian newspaper VG last month: "I trusted him [Baardsen] and was shocked when I found out what had happened. Now I have good people around me that will help me out of this. Maybe this can be a warning to other young footballers."

Since leaving Baardsen, Riise has signed up with the highly regarded agent Struan Marshall of the SFX management company, which numbers Steven Gerrard among its clients. Riise now has a team of London-based Norwegian lawyers trying to untangle the web of financial investments he entered into. The judge overseeing the case, Liv Shelby, who sits in the district court of Ryfylke, said that Baardsen's "assets were low in comparison to the cost of the creditors".

In fact, those claiming money from Baardsen may have to guarantee the legal costs of the court's investigation into his finances if the state refuses to underwrite it. Riise is understood to reject completely Baardsen's claims that he is still owed money for work on contract negotiations on previous deals the player has signed at Liverpool.
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