Liverpool FC Forum

by **A.B.** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:33 pm

eds wrote:
A.B. wrote:
eds wrote:I am gutted with this season.

I was one of the few supporters that thought we would actually go all the way this season and win the EPL.

With the additions of Kuyt, Bellamy, Pennant and Gonzo I thought we would have considerable ammunition to win week-in week-out. But sadly this has not been the case.

Rafa will need to get it right next year because if he doesn't I am afraid his time will be up at Liverpool. Four years is enough time in my eyes to mount a serious title challenge, which has still not happened or has looked like happening.

And bring in who? Rafa should stay here for at least three more years.

If we don't get the job done with Rafa, then we won't get it done with anyone else in the near future.

Someone that can farkin challenge for the title, that's who!

Look at Chelsea a few years back, Raineri finished 2nd and the Russian was ruthless, in came Maureen. He knew exactly what was required and delivered. Yes, he almost had a bottomless pit of money, but as much as we all despise the cretin, HE GOT THE JOB DONE by managing the prima-donnas unlike Real Madrid! And you want to sit back and give Rafa six-seven years to deliver! That is farkin madness!

With the money we have from the take-over Rafa will have no excuses next season on which players he brings in. He will be the only manager in the league that will have the following:

1. Money
2. The history and tradition of "Liverpool Football Club"
3. A new 'state of the art' stadium in the pipelines

to bring in ANY football player in the world to this club.

Chelsea can compete with us on Number 1. United can on Number 2 and Arsenal on Number 3 but none of them can compete on all three things combined.

As for thinking Rafa is the be-all-and-end-all of this club stop sprouting rubbish! The club is bigger than any player or manager and we WILL continue winning titles in the future, even once the likes of Benitez & Gerrard have called it a day.

And who is that someone?

Comparing Ranieri to Benitez?

Ranieri had money under Abramovich and was sacked because he couldn't get the job done, despite having a huge backing from Abramovich financially.

We don't have that type of money that could win us the league. Even now with the owners, we won't have the money that Chelsea threw around. I don't expect us to sign 30 million pound players. We haven't that for Benitez to be in the same position as Ranieri.

Nobody said that Rafa was bigger than the club However he's the best chance we have at the moment to win the Premier league. The Champions League success in 2005 gave this club a well needed heart-beat, and much of it is down to Benitez.

by **stmichael** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:27 pm

peewee wrote:stubborness was houlliers downfall.

while i dont think houllier is anywhere near the same level as rafa and i dont reall want to mention them in the same breath, but rafa is also stubborn and at times it is to the detriment of the team.

i suppose its good to have a belief and stick to it, buts its foolish to stick with something that isnt right.

however lets all remember here we have just been on a great winning streak in the league and sem invincible at home so he must be doing something right, its just a shame that he fannied about so much at th start and put us out of the title race

I'd agree with that Peewee.

01-02 we got within 6 minutes of a European cup semi and finished 2nd with 80 points. We were dicking sides towards the end of the season and I don't think there were many reds who didn't think we could compete the following term.

He then signed very badly in the summer of 02, he spunked 18Mill on Diao, Cheyrou and Diouf. My belief was he was trying to both squad thicken and inject gamebreaking quality on a limited budget - he probably should've done just the latter and risked going into the season without another holding midfielder.

The 02-03 season was quite badly marred by injury, and, given the progress he had made til that season I think he was reasonably given another to turn it round. Personally think he signed well that summer (Finnan and Kewell for 8 mill) but wasn't able to pull out of the nose dive, although left us in the European cup that we went onto win.

Houllier was given a fair crack of the whip, no more, no less. In my opinion we let go at about the right time.

Rafa has shown he's different in that he has turned around periods of bad form - something Houllier never seemed to be able to do. I hope he doesn't make the same mistake Ged made in 2002 and fail to bring in a genuinely top class goalscorer and/or gamebreaking midfielder at the expense of further squad expansion.

by **eds** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:08 am

A.B. wrote:And who is that someone?

Comparing Ranieri to Benitez?

Ranieri had money under Abramovich and was sacked because he couldn't get the job done, despite having a huge backing from Abramovich financially.

We don't have that type of money that could win us the league. Even now with the owners, we won't have the money that Chelsea threw around. I don't expect us to sign 30 million pound players. We haven't that for Benitez to be in the same position as Ranieri.

Nobody said that Rafa was bigger than the club However he's the best chance we have at the moment to win the Premier league. The Champions League success in 2005 gave this club a well needed heart-beat, and much of it is down to Benitez.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IT IS!!!!!!

You are missing the whole point here. What you are implying is that Benitez is the ONLY one that can win us the title in the upcoming future, this is c/\ra/p! Even Peewee picked up on this.

To turn this argument around you are asking me to give you names to replace Benitez, this is impossible to do as I don't have time nor the patience to run through an exhaustive list of who can and can not to do the job for us. And I even think this will be a waste of time.

BUT moving back to the point. Yes I can compare Raineri and Benitez in the same boat. They are in very familiar situations. Benitez has a team that just needs two or three key signings to make us the real deal, just like Raineri's squad a few years back. Now I am not saying that Benitez can go out and buy players like Chelski but we have money now and the problem of him not getting his "man" due to financial limitations is not a problem anymore. Chelsea's ambition was to be Number 1 after Raineri left, ours should be the same with the takeover and the position we are now currently in. Having this mentality of "2nd or 3rd is good enough" is as the English say "B\O/LLOCKS"!

I will be fuming if we have the same sort of season next year and will be questioning Benitez's signings even more. To give him a further 2 or 3 years (like YOU stated) will be VERY questionable.

If we don't win the EPL in the next 1-2 seasons the Champions League will be considered just that........ a "heart beat".

:down:

by **A.B.** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:07 am

eds wrote:
A.B. wrote:And who is that someone?

Comparing Ranieri to Benitez?

Ranieri had money under Abramovich and was sacked because he couldn't get the job done, despite having a huge backing from Abramovich financially.

We don't have that type of money that could win us the league. Even now with the owners, we won't have the money that Chelsea threw around. I don't expect us to sign 30 million pound players. We haven't that for Benitez to be in the same position as Ranieri.

Nobody said that Rafa was bigger than the club However he's the best chance we have at the moment to win the Premier league. The Champions League success in 2005 gave this club a well needed heart-beat, and much of it is down to Benitez.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IT IS!!!!!!

You are missing the whole point here. What you are implying is that Benitez is the ONLY one that can win us the title in the upcoming future, this is c/\ra/p! Even Peewee picked up on this.

To turn this argument around you are asking me to give you names to replace Benitez, this is impossible to do as I don't have time nor the patience to run through an exhaustive list of who can and can not to do the job for us. And I even think this will be a waste of time.

BUT moving back to the point. Yes I can compare Raineri and Benitez in the same boat. They are in very familiar situations. Benitez has a team that just needs two or three key signings to make us the real deal, just like Raineri's squad a few years back. Now I am not saying that Benitez can go out and buy players like Chelski but we have money now and the problem of him not getting his "man" due to financial limitations is not a problem anymore. Chelsea's ambition was to be Number 1 after Raineri left, ours should be the same with the takeover and the position we are now currently in. Having this mentality of "2nd or 3rd is good enough" is as the English say "B\O/LLOCKS"!

I will be fuming if we have the same sort of season next year and will be questioning Benitez's signings even more. To give him a further 2 or 3 years (like YOU stated) will be VERY questionable.

If we don't win the EPL in the next 1-2 seasons the Champions League will be considered just that........ a "heart beat".

How are Ranieri and Benitez in the same boat? Ranieri finished 2nd after he spent millions and millions of pounds on players. That's why he was sacked.

Abramovich wanted to win the league and he gave him the money to do so. Ranieri failed to do that.

Rafa isn't in that position. He wasn't given huge amounts of money last year and it's why we aren't challenging for the title this year. Had it been so otherwise I would be agreeing with you.

by **eds** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:57 am

A.B. wrote:
eds wrote:
A.B. wrote:And who is that someone?

Comparing Ranieri to Benitez?

Ranieri had money under Abramovich and was sacked because he couldn't get the job done, despite having a huge backing from Abramovich financially.

We don't have that type of money that could win us the league. Even now with the owners, we won't have the money that Chelsea threw around. I don't expect us to sign 30 million pound players. We haven't that for Benitez to be in the same position as Ranieri.

Nobody said that Rafa was bigger than the club However he's the best chance we have at the moment to win the Premier league. The Champions League success in 2005 gave this club a well needed heart-beat, and much of it is down to Benitez.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IT IS!!!!!!

You are missing the whole point here. What you are implying is that Benitez is the ONLY one that can win us the title in the upcoming future, this is c/\ra/p! Even Peewee picked up on this.

To turn this argument around you are asking me to give you names to replace Benitez, this is impossible to do as I don't have time nor the patience to run through an exhaustive list of who can and can not to do the job for us. And I even think this will be a waste of time.

BUT moving back to the point. Yes I can compare Raineri and Benitez in the same boat. They are in very familiar situations. Benitez has a team that just needs two or three key signings to make us the real deal, just like Raineri's squad a few years back. Now I am not saying that Benitez can go out and buy players like Chelski but we have money now and the problem of him not getting his "man" due to financial limitations is not a problem anymore. Chelsea's ambition was to be Number 1 after Raineri left, ours should be the same with the takeover and the position we are now currently in. Having this mentality of "2nd or 3rd is good enough" is as the English say "B\O/LLOCKS"!

I will be fuming if we have the same sort of season next year and will be questioning Benitez's signings even more. To give him a further 2 or 3 years (like YOU stated) will be VERY questionable.

If we don't win the EPL in the next 1-2 seasons the Champions League will be considered just that........ a "heart beat".

How are Ranieri and Benitez in the same boat? Ranieri finished 2nd after he spent millions and millions of pounds on players. That's why he was sacked.

Abramovich wanted to win the league and he gave him the money to do so. Ranieri failed to do that.

Rafa isn't in that position. He wasn't given huge amounts of money last year and it's why we aren't challenging for the title this year. Had it been so otherwise I would be agreeing with you.

And once again you keep referring to only one thing......money. It is what you base your entire argument around!

* In Raineri's 2 last seasons, Chelsea finished 4th and 2nd.
* In Benitez 2 last seasons, Liverpool have finished 3rd (1pt off 2nd) and will quite possible finish 3rd again this season.

Both teams were 1-2 places from the top. SIMILAR!

* Both squads are close in the sense that Raineri's Chelsea had the likes of Lampard and Terry to build a team around. At the moment we have the likes of Gerrard and Carra that we can build a team around.

Chelsea needed 2-3 key players to win them the EPL. Liverpool at the moment need the same amount of players to win it next season. SIMILAR!

* Now if you compare our squad currrently with that of Chelsea's 03/04 season where they finished 2nd. We are level peg (in terms of quality) almost all over the park.

ONCE AGAIN SIMILAR.

* Benitez now has a war kit to rival Chelsea's spending in the summer of 2004:

Paulo Ferreira 22/06/04 RB Porto 13.2
Arjen Robben 01/07/04 LW PSV Eindhoven 12.0
Mateja Kezman 12/07/04 FW PSV Eindhoven 5.0
Didier Drogba 19/07/04 FW Olympique Marseille 24.0
Tiago 20/07/04 MF Benfica 8.0
Ricardo Carvalho 27/07/04 DF Porto 19.85
Nuno Morais 29/08/04 DF Penafiel undisc

Total: 80 million plus

Granted that half these players are not worth half the value that Jose payed for them, Benitez will need to make use of the money he has now because he can afford to buy lemons (like some on the above list) but will also need to get it right to challenge next year.

So yes in terms of comparing Liverpool FC 06/07 we are in the same boat as Raineri's Chelsea of 03/04. Financially we are not but unlike your argument, that is not the be-all-and-end-of this argument.

:talktothehand

by **A.B.** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:46 am

eds wrote:And once again you keep referring to only one thing......money. It is what you base your entire argument around!

* In Raineri's 2 last seasons, Chelsea finished 4th and 2nd.
* In Benitez 2 last seasons, Liverpool have finished 3rd (1pt off 2nd) and will quite possible finish 3rd again this season.

Both teams were 1-2 places from the top. SIMILAR!

* Both squads are close in the sense that Raineri's Chelsea had the likes of Lampard and Terry to build a team around. At the moment we have the likes of Gerrard and Carra that we can build a team around.

Chelsea needed 2-3 key players to win them the EPL. Liverpool at the moment need the same amount of players to win it next season. SIMILAR!

* Now if you compare our squad currrently with that of Chelsea's 03/04 season where they finished 2nd. We are level peg (in terms of quality) almost all over the park.

ONCE AGAIN SIMILAR.

* Benitez now has a war kit to rival Chelsea's spending in the summer of 2004:

Paulo Ferreira 22/06/04 RB Porto 13.2
Arjen Robben 01/07/04 LW PSV Eindhoven 12.0
Mateja Kezman 12/07/04 FW PSV Eindhoven 5.0
Didier Drogba 19/07/04 FW Olympique Marseille 24.0
Tiago 20/07/04 MF Benfica 8.0
Ricardo Carvalho 27/07/04 DF Porto 19.85
Nuno Morais 29/08/04 DF Penafiel undisc

Total: 80 million plus

Granted that half these players are not worth half the value that Jose payed for them, Benitez will need to make use of the money he has now because he can afford to buy lemons (like some on the above list) but will also need to get it right to challenge next year.

So yes in terms of comparing Liverpool FC 06/07 we are in the same boat as Raineri's Chelsea of 03/04. Financially we are not but unlike your argument, that is not the be-all-and-end-of this argument.

Benitez hasn't been in a position where the owners have given huge financial backing. He will hopefully be in that position this summer but he hasn't, because if he was we would had signed the likes of Daniel Alves.

He's been buying players like a merchant in Venice. Trying to find quality for as cheap as he can. Since he's been here [3 years] he's spent a net total worth of 70 million f#cking pounds.

Now had the American fat b@stards taken over LAST summer and gave money to Benitez and failed to win the title like we are now then we would be having a whole different debate.

Benitez and Ranieri in that area are not in the same boat. You in your first post never said anything about our current team and Chelsea's team in 03/04. You specifically compared Benitez and Ranieri, not the two perspective teams.

Your statement was a bit vague and could had been interpreted in more than one way.

If anything Benitez has done better than Ranieri when you consider how much Benitez has spent and how much Ranieri spent.

The signings of Claude Makalele,Crespo,Duff,Veron,Parker,Mutu,etc.. combined with the players that were already there [Lampard,Terry,Gallas,Desailly,Petit,etc...] were supposed to be enough for Ranieri to win the league that year.

In the summer of 03 he spent £120 million pounds! Rafa has been here for three years and has only spent a net total of 70 million pounds! Despite the fact Ranieri spent that much money he failed to win the league, that's why Abramovich sacked him.

How you class them in the same boat is mind boggling. If Benitez spent that same amount in one summer and failed to win the league, then we should be thinking about replacing him.

Also with all the money Ranieri spent he won f#ck all. Rafa here has won two major titles in his first two years, something that Ranieri didn't do in the four years he was at Chelsea.

And he's spent less than Ranieri and has been limited in that department due to our lack of financial power.

Last year we finished 3rd and our biggest signing was Reina followed by Sissoko. Hardly 20 million pounds of players spent.

Now things will be different in the summer [depending whether or not Benitez is given a lot of money by the new owners] and he's about to find himself in the same or better position than Ranieri was at Chelsea.

As I said your original statement was vague and not specific. Which my argument is based on finances because it's an important factor.

So :talktothehand

right back at ya.

by **A.B.** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:16 am

I forgot to mention something.

ONCE AGAIN SIMILAR.

* Benitez now has a war kit to rival Chelsea's spending in the summer of 2004:

Paulo Ferreira 22/06/04 RB Porto 13.2
Arjen Robben 01/07/04 LW PSV Eindhoven 12.0
Mateja Kezman 12/07/04 FW PSV Eindhoven 5.0
Didier Drogba 19/07/04 FW Olympique Marseille 24.0
Tiago 20/07/04 MF Benfica 8.0
Ricardo Carvalho 27/07/04 DF Porto 19.85
Nuno Morais 29/08/04 DF Penafiel undisc

Those players were bought by Jose Mourinho not Ranieri.

Now if you compare our squad currrently with that of Chelsea's 03/04 season where they finished 2nd. We are level peg (in terms of quality) almost all over the park.

Chelsea's fullbacks [03/04] were Melchiot,Johnson,Babayaro and Bridge. I'd say that Finnan and Riise superior to them.

However their central defenders [Terry,Gallas,Desailly] I would slightly pick over Carragher,Agger,Hyypia,Paletta.

Their wingers [Cole,Duff] are better than any of the wingers we have at the moment.

Their midfield in their squad that year consisted of Lampard,Makalele,Petit,Veron and Parker.

Ours right now is of course Gerrard,Alonso,Sissoko,Mascherano. It's a close battle mostly due to Makalele and Petit.

Up front they had Crespo,Hasselbaink,Gudjohnsen,Mutu and Oliviera. I think they edge us a bit in that department as their strikers scored more than what our lads up front are doing now.

Regardless, it wasn't enough for them to win the league that year with that squad and it wasn't enough for us this year with our squad.

by **azriahmad** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:51 pm

Like so many of our true fans here, I'm not entirely happy with the way this season's panned out, our early season travel sickness cost us dear. As I have predicted about Chelsea having to alter their normally pragmatic tactics to accommodate both Ballack and Schevchenko, they have turned out to be less effective at closing the game by crushing the play out of their opponents while the move to play 2 strikers and scraficing at least 1 wide player has curbed the width Chelsea used to such effect over the last 2 seasons. Chelsea are weaker now than before and if we had picked up points in our travels earlier on in the season, we'd be in second position at least by now.

However, I'm still convinced that Rafa is the best man for us and I hope there will be more joy for us in the weeks to come in the CL.

by **ConnO'var** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:06 pm

azriahmad wrote:Like so many of our true fans here, I'm not entirely happy with the way this season's panned out, our early season travel sickness cost us dear. As I have predicted about Chelsea having to alter their normally pragmatic tactics to accommodate both Ballack and Schevchenko, they have turned out to be less effective at closing the game by crushing the play out of their opponents while the move to play 2 strikers and scraficing at least 1 wide player has curbed the width Chelsea used to such effect over the last 2 seasons. Chelsea are weaker now than before and if we had picked up points in our travels earlier on in the season, we'd be in second position at least by now.

However, I'm still convinced that Rafa is the best man for us and I hope there will be more joy for us in the weeks to come in the CL.

Like you Azri, I have been deeply dissapointed with our performances this season....

However, I am no longer convinced that Rafa is the man to lead us forward. If it were up to me, he'll only get one more season.

All this talk about no one else being able to do the job simply doesn't wash with me..... Support the manager we must.. but NOT blindly..... He's had his chance and if he doesn't bring back the fear that other teams used to have for us (as a minimum) then it's time for him to move on....

It's time to take the blinkers off...

A few names spring to mind..... Gus Hiddink being 1st and foremost....

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:21 am

If it were up to me, he'll only get one more season.

to be honest..i agree. Rafa is at the Houllier stage of his time at Liverpool...this summer he HAS to make some BIG signings and with that will go a gamble

by **stmichael** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:13 pm

7_Kewell wrote:
If it were up to me, he'll only get one more season.

to be honest..i agree. Rafa is at the Houllier stage of his time at Liverpool...this summer he HAS to make some BIG signings and with that will go a gamble

If Houllier was worth five and a half seasons, if Roy was worth almost five, then Rafa is at least worth the same, in my humble opinion.

It is easy to forget that this team is still in transition. Only now are we beginning to see Rafa's team taking shape, with a core of quality players in Alonso, Kuyt, Gerrard, Carragher, Riise, Finnan, Agger, Reina and Sissoko. I firmly believe (and I could well be wrong, it's been known to happen) that all we need to become a dominant force in the English game for the forseeable future is three world class players to augment what we already have.

When I say world class, I mean the kind of players we haven't been able to buy in Rafa's time at the club, because he's been so busy trying to get a squad together that he hasn't been able to blow huge money on individuals. Yes, Alonso cost £10m, Kuyt £9m, Pennant and Crouch £7m, but in the same time frame, Chavsky have bought guys like Shevchenko for £31m and Drogba for £24m, while Man. Utd have been able to spend £25m on Rooney and £18m on Carrick.

The point I make is that, now the squad is in place and Rafa has a bit of extra investment behind him, he should be able to get those couple of world class performers who might make the difference. We've dropped five points out of six in the last couple of weeks because we haven't been able to finish teams off. I'm loathe to mention names here and start a debate that should be saved for another thread, but guys like Villa and Alves could hopefully provide us with the means to turn draws into wins and defeats into (at least) draws.

To make a long story painful: we can only really judge Rafa fairly on the evidence in front of us. There was one stat that was interesting from Saturday's match: it was the first time a Benitez Liverpool side had lost after leading. That's pretty impressive considering he's had well over a hundred games in charge. There's no doubt that Rafa has improved this club's fortunes immeasurably. Only time will tell if he can lead us to number nineteen.

But in the meantime, I would (personally) never give time spans for him to do it. Gérard had to go because Liverpool went from title challengers to being 30 points adrift in two seasons. I just don't ever see that happening with Rafa.

by **ConnO'var** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:24 pm

stmichael wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
If it were up to me, he'll only get one more season.

to be honest..i agree. Rafa is at the Houllier stage of his time at Liverpool...this summer he HAS to make some BIG signings and with that will go a gamble

If Houllier was worth five and a half seasons, if Roy was worth almost five, then Rafa is at least worth the same, in my humble opinion.

It is easy to forget that this team is still in transition. Only now are we beginning to see Rafa's team taking shape, with a core of quality players in Alonso, Kuyt, Gerrard, Carragher, Riise, Finnan, Agger, Reina and Sissoko. I firmly believe (and I could well be wrong, it's been known to happen) that all we need to become a dominant force in the English game for the forseeable future is three world class players to augment what we already have.

When I say world class, I mean the kind of players we haven't been able to buy in Rafa's time at the club, because he's been so busy trying to get a squad together that he hasn't been able to blow huge money on individuals. Yes, Alonso cost £10m, Kuyt £9m, Pennant and Crouch £7m, but in the same time frame, Chavsky have bought guys like Shevchenko for £31m and Drogba for £24m, while Man. Utd have been able to spend £25m on Rooney and £18m on Carrick.

The point I make is that, now the squad is in place and Rafa has a bit of extra investment behind him, he should be able to get those couple of world class performers who might make the difference. We've dropped five points out of six in the last couple of weeks because we haven't been able to finish teams off. I'm loathe to mention names here and start a debate that should be saved for another thread, but guys like Villa and Alves could hopefully provide us with the means to turn draws into wins and defeats into (at least) draws.

To make a long story painful: we can only really judge Rafa fairly on the evidence in front of us. There was one stat that was interesting from Saturday's match: it was the first time a Benitez Liverpool side had lost after leading. That's pretty impressive considering he's had well over a hundred games in charge. There's no doubt that Rafa has improved this club's fortunes immeasurably. Only time will tell if he can lead us to number nineteen.

But in the meantime, I would (personally) never give time spans for him to do it. Gérard had to go because Liverpool went from title challengers to being 30 points adrift in two seasons. I just don't ever see that happening with Rafa.

I hear you St Mike..... but surely it's time that we learnt from past lessons.... We gave 5 odd seasons to Houllier and almost the same to Evans and look where it took us. Should we repeat the same mistakes again and let Rafa lead us down the path to mediocrity for the same duration again? Surely not?

This is now Rafa's team.. Most of the players left over from the Houllier era are now gone or no longer first choices for the 1st team... Exceptions being Hyypia, Finnan, Riise...

Gerrard and Carra are homegrown players. Reina, Pennant, Alonso, Gonzalez, Aurelio, Kuyt, Bellamy, Crouch, Sissoko, Agger are all Rafa's players, brought in by him alone.....

Is this squad even in contention to bring us back number 19?
Lets look at it in greater detail.

Reina
- Generally a good buy but prone to the odd clanger. Inspires more confidence than Dudek for sure.... but exceptional? Well, the measure of the test is to see how many better keepers are out there in the premiership..... Have we, as a top club in England, got one of the top 3 keepers in the premiership? Cech, Van Der Saar, Robinson, Cudicini, Given and possibly Lehmann are better. But generally an above average buy for me.

Wingers (Pennant and Gonzalez)
- A no brainer for me.... Massive disappointments and a waste of almost 12 million pounds. Not to mention the time and effort wasted to get Gonzalez in. Loads of wingers in the prem who are proven to be better. Ronaldo, Giggs, Robben, Wright Philips, Gamst Pederson, Lennon to name a few. However, it must be said in Rafa's defence is that he's been desperately unlucky with Kewell's injuries....

Central midfielders. (Xabi and Momo)
- Xabi was an excellent buy and Momo shows potential. 15 million well spent. However, due Rafa's tactics and to a large extent, the limitations of Momo, we have no creativity whatsoever in this position. As such we have resorted to long ball tactics on more than the odd ocassion. Also, apparently Rafa does not rate Stevie and Xabi as being an effective partnership. As such while in terms of the quality of the individuals purchased, these 2 have been excellent buys, in terms of overall team balance and rhythm, it can be argued that one or both of these 2 buys have, to a certain extent, been disruptive.

Defenders (Aurelio and Agger)
- For me, the jury is still out on Aurelio.... From what I've seen of him, I believe that he has the potential to be a very very good player.... He certainly has the skills... What I don't understand is why he's taking so long to adapt to the English game.... Agger is a no-brainer..... He's more than capable of taking over from Sammi... a very good buy.... Good enough to be in the top echelons given time.... Right now however, he cannot stand comparison with the Terry's, Vidic's, Ferdinand's, Toure's, King's of this world.... not yet but from what I've seen, I believe it's only a matter of time... so I can wait....

Strikers (Bellamy, Kuyt, Crouch)
- This is one of the main areas that I feel Rafa has gotten desperately wrong.... With the style of play that Rafa apparently prefers (ie... strong from the defense up), its my opinion that he has made the wrong choices here. Don't get me wrong, I believe that Kuyt and Crouch are good players but they do not suit our style of play under Rafa.... As for Bellamy, I shall refrain from commenting too much as whatever opinion I offer on him will biased by my dislike of him both as a player and a person. Suffice to say that in my extremely BIASED opinion, it was a sad day for Liverpool Football Club when we signed him both from a footballing and image standpoint. But I digress.... If we must persist with this style of play, the kind of striker we need is a Drogba, Yakubu or Carew. Strong, physically intimidating, fast, good finshers with both feet and most IMPORTANTLY direct and able to lead a forward line by themselves. The stikers we have bought under Rafa (Morientes, Kuyt, Crouch, Bellamy) do not suit the bill and that's why they have not been prolific.... not because of a lack of ability but due to the style of play we use....

Looking at our squad, it hurts me to say this but in comparison to our rivals, man for man, we cannot compete. But we have spent a lot of money over the last 2 and half seasons in an attempt to build a stronger squad.... The problem is that we have spread that wealth too thin.... we've settled for lesser players so that we can have more of them instead of going down the Arsenal and Man Utd route of purchasing 1 or 2 quality players per season. As the saying goes.... "you get what you pay for"..... You cannot buy a BMW and expect Ferrari performance..... You do get lucky once in a while though and unearth a Ferrari no else has spotted.... but a rare occasion indeed.

The assembly of a squad, the determination of the way that squad plays tactically, the desire of the players, the hunger, passion and spirit exhibited by the team, the image of the team are ALL the RESPONSIBILITY of the manager. In all of the areas above, I feel that Rafa has fallen short of the required minimum I'd expect from an LFC manager.

Under Rafa, I do not have confidence that we'll ever see the quick passing game, the swagger in our players strides, the triangles we were once reknowned for nor can I see us gaining the respect and fear of the rest of the premiership we once had.

The players AND the manager are all EMPLOYEES of LFC and should never be bigger than the club itself. As such no-one is sacrosanct to criticism especially if it is constructive and kept internal. We must all present a united front outside of the club as a whole (meaning... LFC and the fans which keep it alive.)

This season has been a huge dissapointment not so much in the losses that we've endured or the ground lost to our main rivals BUT in the manner we played and the lack of heart that we've shown in those losses.

As I said.... time is running out for Rafa.... If you read the match posts, you'll find a lot of questioning and incredulity of his tactics and substitutions by the posters on here in the heat of the moment.... But once the dissapointment fades, almost everyone goes back to the "in RAFA we trust" theme song that this forum has been singing this year.... I wonder why..... fear of being ridiculed and flamed by others?.... or do we really believe that he's the man for the job.....

To quote one of the posts I read quite sometime back..... "Liverpool Football Club is in my heart and on my chest". I cannot bear to see us like this...... The time for change is NOW.

YNWA

by **RichardLFC1** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:34 pm

Im not happy at all. We was meant to push on from last season be real title challangers but that hasnt happend. Were Currently 3rd which isnt all bad but arsenal have a game in hand and only a point behind. It was due to Games like Sheffield united where we drew and Borough where we also drew but loosing to blackburn, Bolton and Everton were terrible results that liverpool shouldnt be getting even if they are away.

by **eds** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:29 am

A.B. wrote:

AB wrote:Benitez hasn't been in a position where the owners have given huge financial backing. He will hopefully be in that position this summer but he hasn't, because if he was we would had signed the likes of Daniel Alves.

Good to see that we are stating to agree on a few things! If you read back to what I have been saying all along, Rafa doesn't have any more excuses if he gets a "massive" war chest to spend on getting the "right" player. Hence next season he will be like Raineri, except in a better position (please refer to my original post to explain why).

AB wrote:He's been buying players like a merchant in Venice. Trying to find quality for as cheap as he can. Since he's been here [3 years] he's spent a net total worth of 70 million f#cking pounds.

Yep also agree with you there!

AB wrote:Now had the American fat b@stards taken over LAST summer and gave money to Benitez and failed to win the title like we are now then we would be having a whole different debate.

Hmmm, I sense you haven't understood everything I have written as this clearly underlines what I have been trying to get across! Benitez won't have any excuses next season if he has a "big" transfer budget, JUST LIKE RAINERI had no excuses in his last season!

AB wrote:Benitez and Ranieri in that area are not in the same boat. You in your first post never said anything about our current team and Chelsea's team in 03/04. You specifically compared Benitez and Ranieri, not the two perspective teams.

FFS and what exactly was I SPECIFICALLY comparing Benitez and Ranieri on? Their style in men's clothing? Their skin pigmentation? Your blaming me on YOUR assumptions and what YOU thought I posted? Read word_for_word the first post, what are the SPECIFICS that YOU are harping on about?

AB wrote:Your statement was a bit vague and could had been interpreted in more than one way.

Nope. I was talking about them being football managers who have missed winning the EPL by a few positions on the ladder. I have then referred to their squads to highlight how similar these two things go hand in hand. We have a strong team (currently) that isn't good enough to win the EPL JUST like Raineri's team wasn't good enough to win it in his last season!

AB wrote:If anything Benitez has done better than Ranieri when you consider how much Benitez has spent and how much Ranieri spent.

Benitez is a much better manager than Raineri. But this is moving away from the main argument.

AB wrote:In the summer of 03 he spent £120 million pounds! Rafa has been here for three years and has only spent a net total of 70 million pounds! Despite the fact Ranieri spent that much money he failed to win the league, that's why Abramovich sacked him.

How you class them in the same boat is mind boggling. If Benitez spent that same amount in one summer and failed to win the league, then we should be thinking about replacing him.

A.B do you self a favour, ignore everything you said there till you get to the last line, "If Benitez spent......." Once you understand this, you will understand everything that I HAVE been saying and not what YOU have ASSUMED I have been saying!

AB wrote:Also with all the money Ranieri spent he won f#ck all. Rafa here has won two major titles in his first two years, something that Ranieri didn't do in the four years he was at Chelsea.

That's cos Raneri was s\h/i\t and he only had that "money" in his last year. But once again off topic!

AB wrote:Now things will be different in the summer [depending whether or not Benitez is given a lot of money by the new owners] and he's about to find himself in the same or better position than Ranieri was at Chelsea.

And that's why he should be fired or shown the door if he doesn't deliver next season, or at worst the season after that. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING!!!!!!!
Amazing how we have come to the same conclusion and you thought I was saying something different!

by **Years Of Decay** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:02 am

I have to say i fully expected us to challenge for the title this season

Now it seems our only hope lies with the CL and barca will be a mighty melon to shift. Havent shown as good consistency and the early cup exits were embarassing, particularly the FA cup game, something i never want to experience again. The everton shambles home and away, particularly away beats that though. The chelsea result at home was very enjoyable tho. So yeah it has been quite a disappointing season, but then its not over yet... t.wat barca and ill certainly cheer up a bit

Hoping that next season will be the season, but then we say that every year.. Hope the added funds help us out a bit

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