Liverpool FC Forum

by **HOMER** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:23 pm

agree with your post ade, only one concern-
danny alves was poor in the game against betis on the weekend
he was playing right back - made lots of mistakes, poor positioning, gave away a penalty(it was a dive by the opposing player but alves was caught out of position).
from what i've seen so far(about 5 games) finnan is much more solid.
don't know what he's like on the wing tho coz he's not playing there.
12m I hope not.

by **red37** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:29 am

F**k asking you for this weeks Lotto numbers!

by **The Manhattan Project** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:01 am

Traditional Strategy For Success:

Wise Buys + Key Tactical Decisions + Smart Marketing + Shrewd Investments = Success

Peter Kenyon's Strategy For Success:

Billionaire Oligarch = Success.

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:33 am

on all the posts that i've been reading so far everyone keeps stating that we nee 4 or 5 quality signings to improve the first 11. Didn't we need 4 or 5 players when benitez joined us 3 years ago!
we've bought around 30 players spent up to 80-90 million and it seems from everyones posts that we are no better off (FIRST 11) than we were when houllier was in charge

Have to admit I agree with the "we need 2-3, 4-5 players next year thing" We have been saying this for ages and I fed up of the tune. Its like we sweep it under the carpet year in and out. 90 million thats alot of money, I dont know for sure but I reckon about 40 -50 has paid off in decent players.

by **Sabre** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:18 am

Excellent post red37. Took me a while to read it. If you want a suggestion you don't need to be more succint, just try to put the same text making smaller paragraphs, putting more empty lines, it's amazing how it helps to read the whole thing.

I'm a bit worried to be honest with some things I'm reading in this forum. I don't think Rafa will start from scratch now he has more money. I think that from moment one he's building a project, and from moment one he has made clear there's still a lot of work to do to improve the team. Now he'll have th emoney and that won't another trouble, but for me, the same project Rafa is building is still going on. Now we have less stones in our path because we have the money, that's all.

I'm worried because for what I read I think people thinks LFC will buy tons of players. I'm worried because I see all LFC games, it's opposition, all the fúcking Spanish Liga, and when I read that Kuyt is not a great player, I despair. I really do. He might not be Henry because the French is world class, but saying Kuyt is not a great player? come on.

People is also saying that we have bought many average or squad players. Well you cannot make a team out of world class players, you need tough workers too. Give me any team that has won a european competition twice in a row, and I'll make you the list of "artist" players and the "worker" players. Players like Finnan, Riise, should get more respect than the one they do.

by **red37** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:02 pm

Do you know Sabre...I have no idea what you do for a living. But i bet you are damn good at it.

by **Ade** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:31 pm

Sabre wrote:Excellent post red37. Took me a while to read it. If you want a suggestion you don't need to be more succint, just try to put the same text making smaller paragraphs, putting more empty lines, it's amazing how it helps to read the whole thing.

I'm a bit worried to be honest with some things I'm reading in this forum. I don't think Rafa will start from scratch now he has more money. I think that from moment one he's building a project, and from moment one he has made clear there's still a lot of work to do to improve the team. Now he'll have th emoney and that won't another trouble, but for me, the same project Rafa is building is still going on. Now we have less stones in our path because we have the money, that's all.

I'm worried because for what I read I think people thinks LFC will buy tons of players. I'm worried because I see all LFC games, it's opposition, all the fúcking Spanish Liga, and when I read that Kuyt is not a great player, I despair. I really do. He might not be Henry because the French is world class, but saying Kuyt is not a great player? come on.

People is also saying that we have bought many average or squad players. Well you cannot make a team out of world class players, you need tough workers too. Give me any team that has won a european competition twice in a row, and I'll make you the list of "artist" players and the "worker" players. Players like Finnan, Riise, should get more respect than the one they do.

Sabre, you're a bright lad and I agree with most of your posts, but Kuyt is not a great player yet. He has a great attitude and a great work rate - but that doesn't make him a great player. He might become one, but you're kidding yourself if you think he's a great player now.

I'm not saying he isn't a good player, and I think he's a valuable member of the side. A great team needs great players and good players - he's a good player, who could be a great asset - but that doesn't make him a great player yet.

by **stmichael** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:34 pm

Criticism of Benitez has largely come about due to our early poor season form. Playing catch-up is galling, particularly when the fat cats are struggling and our hated enemy are leading the table. I honestly believe if Chelsea were top there wouldn't be half the soul-searching going on and people would be patiently looking forward to next season.

Fans look to the rest of the 'big four' as the standard and complain that we can't compete despite a similar budget. that overlooks one key point, namely Benitez has been in the process of rebuilding the squad, while Arsenal and United are merely adding to an existing squad. In terms of resources for squad rebuilding we need to be looking to Chelsea and what they have had to spend. this is why Benitez has gotten tetchy recently, he has had £30 million a year to bring in five or six players, Arsenal the same to spend on one or two. United spent £18 million on Carrick, we got three players for the same money. Chelsea have had four times our amount. This is where the difference is.

by **Big Niall** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:41 pm

We need a player who before every game, we expect to score. See Rush,Aldridge,(young)Fowler,Owen -- Couch/kuyt?

(not in the same class)

Top strikers cost a fortune but Rafa's attempts to get cut price bargains means that we have loads of decent attacking players but not exceptional one. Manu have Ronaldo,Giggs, Rooney, We have Bellamy,Pennant,Kuyt.

I'd sell 5 okay players for an average of £4m to get 1 top striker for £20m

by **Sabre** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:02 pm

I'm not saying he isn't a good player, and I think he's a valuable member of the side. A great team needs great players and good players - he's a good player, who could be a great asset - but that doesn't make him a great player yet.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by great. I think his tally isn't a great one so far, in that sense he's not great. But I do think he'll bring those goals to LFC if not this season, the next one, I do like a lot what I see in that lad.

I wasn't talking especifically about your post, but random post I can read here and there and that makes me think that there's a sector of the fans, who would be ready to drop half the squad and sign up expensive, well known, famous players. IMO we have good players and most of them are good enough for LFC's future.

Recently I had a discussion about Pennant with other respected members of the forum. Well I said he's good for me, and there is people who thinks he's not good enough for LFC. I saw the game England - Spain, and I'd like to know why the theoretically best right winger of England (SWP) is that much better than our Pennant. I've seen fúcking David Beckham last sunday in my local stadium, and if you forget about the set pieces, I'd like to know if he could give more to LFC than Pennant does.

I will always favour to bring a player that improves the squad. If he comes from the academy, I'll be happier because I'm a romantic bástard, but otherwise I don't care them being Spanish, English, famous or not. But I do not think it's fair to say players like Pennant or Kuyt are bçnot good enough. In a nutshell, I think it's possible to improve the squad, but it won't be that easy as many think. I'd bet my house that if Torres was available, it would take less than 4 weeks you shouting to Rafa Bring Back Kuyt and Crouch to the first team. Perhaps 5 weeks, once you all realised the showy things he does are not productive enough.

by **stmichael** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:12 pm

Sabre wrote:Recently I had a discussion about Pennant with other respected members of the forum. Well I said he's good for me, and there is people who thinks he's not good enough for LFC. I saw the game England - Spain, and I'd like to know why the theoretically best right winger of England (SWP) is that much better than our Pennant. I've seen fúcking David Beckham last sunday in my local stadium, and if you forget about the set pieces, I'd like to know if he could give more to LFC than Pennant does.

It's a fair point. The problem we have is that the changing nature of football means that we very rarely produce old fashioned wingers in this country these days, in the same way that we rarely produce the old fashioned style centre forward either.

As far as I'm concerned, Steven Gerrard is the best right sided player (not right winger) in this country and that's not even his favourite position. Aaron Lennon (who's more of an old fashioned winger) will be great given time but he still raw and doesn't have much of an end product.

On Kuyt, calling him great is a bit premature imo. He's been relatively poor recently and a lot of the time I don't see him getting into enough scoring positions. He'll always work his socks off but in terms of goalscoring, Crouch (who regularly gets slated) has a far better goals per games ratio than Kuyt.

by **Ade** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:42 pm

Sabre wrote:
I'm not saying he isn't a good player, and I think he's a valuable member of the side. A great team needs great players and good players - he's a good player, who could be a great asset - but that doesn't make him a great player yet.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by great. I think his tally isn't a great one so far, in that sense he's not great. But I do think he'll bring those goals to LFC if not this season, the next one, I do like a lot what I see in that lad.

I wasn't talking especifically about your post, but random post I can read here and there and that makes me think that there's a sector of the fans, who would be ready to drop half the squad and sign up expensive, well known, famous players. IMO we have good players and most of them are good enough for LFC's future.

Recently I had a discussion about Pennant with other respected members of the forum. Well I said he's good for me, and there is people who thinks he's not good enough for LFC. I saw the game England - Spain, and I'd like to know why the theoretically best right winger of England (SWP) is that much better than our Pennant. I've seen fúcking David Beckham last sunday in my local stadium, and if you forget about the set pieces, I'd like to know if he could give more to LFC than Pennant does.

I will always favour to bring a player that improves the squad. If he comes from the academy, I'll be happier because I'm a romantic bástard, but otherwise I don't care them being Spanish, English, famous or not. But I do not think it's fair to say players like Pennant or Kuyt are bçnot good enough. In a nutshell, I think it's possible to improve the squad, but it won't be that easy as many think. I'd bet my house that if Torres was available, it would take less than 4 weeks you shouting to Rafa Bring Back Kuyt and Crouch to the first team. Perhaps 5 weeks, once you all realised the showy things he does are not productive enough.

I hope you're right Sabre – I like Kuyt and with that attitude he can develop and maybe be the front man we need. But, like Niall, I don't see one striker in our team who really gets me excited when I see our team line up.

However, I do agree with you on the need to not panic buy. Two or three top quality players this close season would be perfect - part of our problem this season has been accommodating the several new signings made last year. But I agree with you, Benitez is getting closer to his plan and there's no sense now in buying loads of new players and throwing that out the window.

As for Pennant, I'm sorry - he's just not good enough. I'd love to be proved wrong and I will hold my hand up if I am. But he was a desperation buy when we were knocked back on Alves, and I'll be surprised if Rafa doesn't try to offload him this summer.

New left back, new right midfielder, new striker please

by **Scottbot** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:08 pm

stmichael wrote:I honestly believe if Chelsea were top there wouldn't be half the soul-searching going on and people would be patiently looking forward to next season.

That's spot on. If it was chelsea again there wouldn't have been as much criticism. There seems to be this misconception that the mancs are an average side, not a patch on the many of Fergie's previous teams. The truth is they have been fantastic for most of the season and i guess you have to say fair play to them. I don't feel that the reds have missed some 'big' opportunity to win an easy title this year. We just weren't up to it in the opening 2 months of the season and by then it was too late.

by **stmichael** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:56 pm

Scottbot wrote:
stmichael wrote:I honestly believe if Chelsea were top there wouldn't be half the soul-searching going on and people would be patiently looking forward to next season.

That's spot on. If it was chelsea again there wouldn't have been as much criticism. There seems to be this misconception that the mancs are an average side, not a patch on the many of Fergie's previous teams. The truth is they have been fantastic for most of the season and i guess you have to say fair play to them. I don't feel that the reds have missed some 'big' opportunity to win an easy title this year. We just weren't up to it in the opening 2 months of the season and by then it was too late.

the mancs have overachieved in my eyes, no doubt about it. i just couldn't see how only signing carrick, whilst letting van nistelrooy go and not replacing him would make them a stronger side. it just so happens that ronaldo and scholes have had amazing seasons whilst vidic has been an absolute revelation. add this to the masterstroke of signing larsson (he's STILL better than any of our strikers) and they were onto a winner. whilst we might have a bigger squad than them, they have a consistency of selection when everyone is fit and they're ruthless infront of goal. i think they've scored something like 61 goals in the league to our 38 which says it all.

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:31 pm

stmichael wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
stmichael wrote:I honestly believe if Chelsea were top there wouldn't be half the soul-searching going on and people would be patiently looking forward to next season.

That's spot on. If it was chelsea again there wouldn't have been as much criticism. There seems to be this misconception that the mancs are an average side, not a patch on the many of Fergie's previous teams. The truth is they have been fantastic for most of the season and i guess you have to say fair play to them. I don't feel that the reds have missed some 'big' opportunity to win an easy title this year. We just weren't up to it in the opening 2 months of the season and by then it was too late.

the mancs have overachieved in my eyes, no doubt about it. i just couldn't see how only signing carrick, whilst letting van nistelrooy go and not replacing him would make them a stronger side. it just so happens that ronaldo and scholes have had amazing seasons whilst vidic has been an absolute revelation. add this to the masterstroke of signing larsson (he's STILL better than any of our strikers) and they were onto a winner. whilst we might have a bigger squad than them, they have a consistency of selection when everyone is fit and they're ruthless infront of goal. i think they've scored something like 61 goals in the league to our 38 which says it all.

I dont think they've "over achieved" more like the rest of the pack has under achieved IMO.

Also their signings havent been done in abudance, maybe 1 or 2 new to the first team, thats proberbly helped them. Well definately, if you look at the inclusions we've made, Chelsea and Arsenal over recent years. Their more setted while we've been chopping and changing perhaps.

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