The season so far are you happy?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby stmichael » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:08 pm

HOMER wrote:kuyt seems to be a good buy but is good workrate enough to make someone a good striker - if that was the case then sissoko would be upfront!

Exactly. I'd take a proven goalscorer/finisher over somebody who "works hard" but doesn't score that many anyday of the week.

That's what made me laugh when we were linked with Trezeguet in the summer and everyone said "he's lazy, doesn't work for the team blah blah blah". I mean the guy's goalscoring record at every level is second to none ffs.

IMO a type of player like Trezeguet would be a great option to have.
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Postby prgsi » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:17 pm

At the end of the season it'll be looked on as well below par, even if we win the CL (the Prem is the priority).

Having said that, I don't agree with some of the small minds who'll be ringing in Radio Merseyside's footie phone in this evening demanding Rafa's head!

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Postby Kash_Mountain » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:30 pm

supersub wrote:I am old school :
You go out to win every game
Liverpool exists to win cups and leagues
1st is everything 2nd is nothing
never settle for 2nd best

finishing 2nd 3rd or 4th is not success and to hail it as so is to accept 2nd best.

Not happy

We just haven't been consistant enough.  I know we've had some good runs and just when you think, yeah we could really do it, we lose

The mentallity should always be, fight and scrap for every ball, every bit of space/blade of grass.  This is how to win games.
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Postby bigmick » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:04 pm

It's a good question and a good topic. When you look at what Man U have done this season (which is probably winning the league from a starting position at the end of last season almost identical to ourselves) you have to say we have underperformed in comparison. 
They gave Van Nistelroy the elbow and brought in Michael Carrick, and while the return of the excellent Scholes has been significant the feeling persists that our first eleven is very close to being the equal of theirs. The difference is probably in that they actually play their best eleven or nearly all of it much more often than we do ours, and that their really big players have performed consistently at somewhere near the top of their game. Ronaldo by all accounts has had a wonderful season and while being fitful, Rooneys abundance of natural talent will always have a massive influence when he is playing in a very average Premiership. Vidic appears to have come on a bundle and even Evra seems to be doing a job, while Saha has surpassed what most of us thought he was capable of. Overall though, we all know they are by no means a great team just simply the best of a pretty ordinary bunch and My hunch is we could and should be a lot closer to them.

So what went wrong for us? Obviously giving everybody a seven or eight point start in the first three weeks of the season was suicide, and without wanting to revisit the whole debate I hope we have finally learnt our lesson as far as that is concerned.
One or two of our signings haven't really worked out, and none of them have absolutely uprooted trees. Gonzales certainly and Pennant probably are in the first category, while even possibly Kuyt and certainly Bellamy have improving to do if they are to convince they belong in a Championship winning squad.
Our biggest players, Gerrard and Alonso haven't really had great seasons either. It may be due to fatigue, personal problems or whatever but neither will look back on this season with fondness, with the feeling that they did themselves justice.
And what of our manager? Well I think he is a brilliant football man and I'm glad we have him. He will know himself however that he has not had his best year either. Too many mistakes in selection and over-rotation have hindered our progress, while it appears that his performance in the transfer market this close season was slightly below par based on his excellence in the past. Like everybody else he needs to up his game for next season.

What to do? Well firstly and formostly we need more than two really big players. I know we have lots of good players BTW but I am talking about fellas who opposition fans would accept as being probably the best or almost the best in their position. You could I guess make a case for Carragher ut beyond that I think we would be dreaming a bit. This will either happen because one of our existing players makes the step up (and FWIW Kuyt looks the mostlikely option to me) or by buying big.
Secondly we need to stop handicapping ourselves by not picking anywhere near our strongest team on too many occasions.
Thirdly we need to take a cold hard look at our existing squad and cull out any deadwood. There are many debateable options but for my money the jury has surely returned a verdict on Bolo Zenden (it now seems incredible that we chose to play him in central midfield when we played Arsenal away) and it is high time that players such as him were shown the door.

Long post but that's my opinion. Feck the cups, we should be seven or eight points higher in the league than we are in my view.
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Postby stmichael » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:10 pm

We've got a great core set of regulars upon which a title-challenging first team or squad could be buit.  But - no disrespect to the man - bringing on Guthrie to change the game is a little different to bringing on Saha or Larsson or even Park or dare I say Richardson.... or Robben (though I hate him and he's extremely over-rated) or Wright-Phillips or even Kalou or Baptista.

Not using that argument 'how many of our players would get into Chelsea/the Mancs/Arsenal's team'... thats pointless.  How many of you thought that Guthrie would have a positive impact on the result when he came on at St. James' Park?
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Postby J*o*n*D*o*e » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:41 pm

if we cast our minds back to pre-season the signs where there then that things were not right but nothing was done to correct it, these games are not just about getting fit as some seem to think.

so it was no surprise that we started of the season so badly, we all hate maureen but he has been proved right because apart from kuyt we only bought good players not the top quality signings we need if we ever want to challenge.

its true that we need money to spend on the team but i dont think its anywhere near some of the amounts you hear banded about, for me its not win at all costs. or do we all have short memories when we have given chelski so much stick that where now only to eager to follow them.

lets do it by keeping our dignity, pride and identity and not by giving up everything thats makes this club the greatest in the world.
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Postby Scottbot » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:18 pm

EddieC wrote:So am I happy with this season? In a word, no. But neither am I dissapointed. Unlike some on here I didn't have great expectations from the start, Rafa hasn't been able to get his first choice players, and has had to alter his system accordingly. With the new funds that are going to be available, I expect to see a few players come in who are going to be in the first team 9 times out of 10, rather than just bolstering the squad. Again it will take time for these players to bed in, so firstly I'd like to see them signed as early in the window as possible, and secondly not all thrown in to the first team at once. I still feel that next season will be too early for the title, but I hope we can put together a team that has the talent to win it. Given time to gel, and not too many additions needed the following summer, we will then have a team capable of winnig the title.

Good post Eddie.

The season so far, are you happy?

Not ecstatic but i think that like many fans i got my expectations all wrong. The boys finished strongly last season, and with the mancs looking like they were on the wane and Arsenal lacking experience i also believed we could be the closest to Chelsea. I wasn't optimistic enough to believe we could win the title but hoped we could still be in the running (even as a longshot) as late as March. The fact is you can barely afford to lose more than 3 games all season if you want to win the title these days. A few posters talk about Chelsea as if they have had a shocker but they have only lost 3 games (it might be 4) and i would be surprised if they lost many more. The first ten games pretty much burried any title aspirations we had and maybe this season is a bit of a reality check for some of us. I also believe we are a couple of big players short of really challenging for the title. Stevie might have played like a super-human last season but he can't play like that every year so others will need to step-in or step-up.

This thread probably doesn't give the mancs the credit they deserve (although that's no surprise!) for their performances this season and i don't believe our 1st 11 matches up to well to them this time out. Ronaldo has had the kind of year we saw from Gerrard (last time out), Scholes has had a big big year, Rooney is Rooney, Evra has played like the best LB in the league, Vidic and Ferdinand have been excellent, Saha has played well when fit and there have been several solid performers elsewhere. I'm not trying to kiss the mancs :censored: here (i know that's what it sounds like) but compare the report card of the Liverpool first 12/13 and it doesn't make anywhere near as good reading.

Personally, i'm in no hurry for the season to end. there's nothing worse than the off-season, it's sucks. The new owners are in town and i'm excited to see if Rafa will have the funds to go out and compete for someone like David Villa. Remember the mancs have payed £30 million for THREE different players before. That's what lfc has to compete with so it's never going to be easy.

Title next season? I don't think so but ask me again in 12 months.
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Postby Paul C » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:24 pm

supersub wrote:I am old school :
You go out to win every game
Liverpool exists to win cups and leagues
1st is everything 2nd is nothing
never settle for 2nd best

finishing 2nd 3rd or 4th is not success and to hail it as so is to accept 2nd best.

Deffo, I'm with Supersub, the prem is our bread and butter, we haven't won it for 16 years ffs, the worst thing is that we've only come close to it twice in all those years, yeah the Champions League, etc are great but they should be a bonus.

Until we win the league I won't be entirely happy with any season never mind finishing 3 or 4th all the time  :(
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Postby dward » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:00 am

So far? Not at all happy. However, if we did actually win the CL and finished 3rd I would be ecstatic, considering how many points we've needlessly dropped this season. But if we do go out to Barca, what will we have to celebrate about results-wise when we look back on this season? Not much.
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Postby Kharhaz » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:18 am

Things are not as bad as people are saying. Our main and obvious problem is our finishing. Yes there are times weve played really bad this season and got a result (Sheff Utd) and there are times weve played the other team off the park (Blackburn, Newcastle) and got nothing. I dont think we need a natural finisher I think we need to get the players we have now working on there reactions and the situations when one on one with the 'keeper. If Gerrard or Alonso or Riise or Kuyt is in a position where they can score they must take that opportunity. Kuyt has an excellent scoring record with his previous clubs but here at Liverpool its pretty poor. In my opinion it must be down to the other things there being asked to do in training which is making them miss so many opportunities.
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Postby red_guy » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:44 am

Happy? I would be lying if i said i was happy.Too many stupid mistakes that cost us a lot. . Right now, I don't care much about the league (anyway would be happy if we finished in the CL spot)... just want us to go all out , fight till death in this season's CL. :)
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:58 am

CL form has been good thus far.

Prem has been disappointing. Far too many away defeats.

Damp squib in the cup. Went out far too easily.

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Postby EddieC » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:17 pm

7_Kewell wrote:Rafa will have to make some major culls to the squad and the following I would all ship out ASAP

Zenden
Hyypia
Dudek
Fowler
Gonzalez
Aurelio
Pennant

These players are either past it…or aren’t ever going to make it at the level we require.  Hopefully with the new cash, Rafa will bite the bullet and bring in at least 2 wingers.

I agree with the first 4, Zenden & Dudek are just sh!te, and Hyypia & Fowler, whilst great players in their time are well past there best.

Aurelio & Gonzo though, should be given more time IMO. Aurelio has been unlucky with injuries but was starting to turn out some decent performances before the last one. I feel sorry for Gonzales. He's come here with the weight of the world on his shoulders, due to Rafa talking him up and then having to wait a year to see him in a red shirt, and I feel it's showing. Given a bit of time out of the spotlight I think he could still become a decent player. He's shown little flashes of what he can do, just not enough. One more season for me, give him a bit of time in the reserves to gain a bit of form with no pressure, and if he's still not cutting it then ship him out.

I accept that Pennant isn't the answer on the right wing, as I think most have, but I would still keep him as back up. In this day & age any top club needs two players for each position, and he seems firstly to be good enough at least to play second fiddle, but also I feel he's the sort of player that wouldn't kick off too much about being left on the bench as long as he was getting a few cup games. It would also stop Gerrard being shifted out right every time our winger was injured/needed a rest.
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Postby Roger Red Hat » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:37 pm

in one respect Im happy. The CL is going well. We just might land number 6 this year, you never know.

however I thought we'd do better in the league so Im disappointed at that.
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Postby Zi-Dan Agger » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:04 pm

seasons over regarding the title IMO, out of both domestic cup competitions, weve just got to focus now on Barcelona and what my await us after them and focus our energies there (along with securing a top 4 finish).  Cant wait for next season though, with the new owners im  really excited about the summer transfer period and what business we'l do. I think Rafa WILL ship out the deadwood we're carrying and bring in some world class players so next season we're challenging on every front!
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