Liverpool FC Forum

by **CardinalRed** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:57 pm

Happy? definitely not, to be honest, going out of the cups in such a lame fashion has been more disappointing for me than the League. Can any of us hand on heart say they expected us to win the league this season? I think not, and while he wouldn't have turned it down, I don't think it was in Rafa's grand plan either.
The manner of the defeats we have endured this time around has probably been the most alarming thing, Arsenal, Everton and even Newcastle (for differing reasons) the one thing we still haven't got yet is consistency..... At least Anfield is still the fortress we all know and love (except when the Gooners come!!!)
I only hope we give a really good account of ourselves against Barca', the thought of the season fizzling out or even worse, being caught by Bolton is unthinkable!!!

:cool:

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:04 pm

The point about us signing players early in the window is a very good one. We always seem to do our business in the closing stages, which in many cases means that new players are only getting one or two training sessions before they're expected to slot into the team.

Get them early in the summer, let them take time to get to know the manager and the squad, give them time to find new digs etc and get their families sorted. It makes so much difference to a player to be able to go into a season already feeling part of the club.

Aside from that, it's that word "transition" again, I'm afraid. To be honest, our awful start to the season could (and should) have left us miles from the top 2 by this stage. Thank god Chelsea and Arsenal haven't exactly had vintage seasons either.

I don't think wholesale changes are needed though. I think we have most of the players, but too many of them have been inconsistent or just plain disappointing (Pennant, Gerrard, Alonso and Reina early in the season). Kuyt's shined, but Gonzalez and Aurelio still have the jury out on them.

On the plus side, for all our failings on both wings, and for all Gerrard's inconsistency, we are still carving out hatfuls of chances. If we weren't, I'd be seriously worried, but we don't really have any problems that more composure in the box wouldn't solve.

I do think Pennant is capable of owning the right flank, but he's still to win me over completely, and I'd like to see Rafa nail him to the first 11 for the rest of the season now. Gonzalez right now doesn't look ready for a guaranteed start, which may call for a signing come summer. Riise and Aurelio together on the left is an option, but not a first choice option, so if Kewell's injury nightmare doesn't clear up I'd like to see us look at bringing in a specialist left winger with Prem experience.

It is basically a case of sorting the wings out and finding a natural goalscorer. For all their qualities, Kuyt, Crouch and Bellamy aren't as prolific as the chances provided to them should yield, and if Rafa's not going to play Fowler, he's going to have to splash the cash.

It's been a generally poor season, but I do think we're close now to really mounting a challenge on all fronts. With no World Cup this year, I'd like to see us bursting out of the blocks next season instead of stumbling so horribly like we did for the first couple of months this term.

by **stmichael** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:07 pm

the way i look at it the season can now go one of two ways, depending on how the barca tie turns out.

win that and i can see us going on a great run until the end of the season. get beat and the season could peter out. two years ago, europe turned our season from what would have been a massive disappointment into a great success. the same could well happen again.

FWIW i actually think that our best available starting eleven is better than last season but as it stands, we're not going to get as many points as we accumulated last year. personally i blame bad finishing. we had easily enough chances to have won at everton, bolton, newcastle and blackburn.

oh well, next year will be the year, i'm sure of it. :oops:

by **dward** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:08 pm

FWIW - For what I....?

by **EddieC** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:11 pm

dward wrote:FWIW - For what I....?

For what it's worth

by **redmikey** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:18 pm

gutted that we came out of the blocks like a rover 25, but that is because the expectation were as high as i can ever remember at the start of the season

rafa s plan to keep players fit and hungry is paying divideds now but then we drop 4 points and take the wind out of our sails

gerrard said that the derby draw was like a defeat and imho it was still evident on the mud at st jokers park

ciggy , i am happy as we are a team that gets mentioned when the title race starts now and not just as team playing for a champs league spot but with high expectations comes bandwagon fans and disappointments but overall YES

by **stmichael** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:21 pm

I'm of the opinion that the test is whether you can be content finishing fifth and winning the Champions League in spectacular style, or whether you'd rather have finished second in the league, one point off the Champions but won no silverware.

I grately bemoaned the fact that we finished fifth at the time, but you can't deny that winning the CL was an awesome achievement, and I'm not sure whether I'd want to give that up if it meant a higher league finish. (I'm talking higher, rather than just first.) I guess it's relative to some. We can finish second or third but win some silver and still see it as a "successful" season - I mean, I don't think you could consider the 2004-05 season particularly unsuccessful can you? But we did still finish 5th.

by **supersub** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:37 pm

I am old school :
You go out to win every game
Liverpool exists to win cups and leagues
1st is everything 2nd is nothing
never settle for 2nd best

finishing 2nd 3rd or 4th is not success and to hail it as so is to accept 2nd best.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:11 pm

ivor_the_injun wrote:For all their qualities, Kuyt, Crouch and Bellamy aren't as prolific as the chances provided to them should yield, and if Rafa's not going to play Fowler, he's going to have to splash the cash.

This is the point I want to focus on from Lynds' post. No-one in our side is what I would call a clinical finisher, compared to the likes of Owen, Fowler (in his pomp), Rush etc. It was raised in another thread that we haven´t replaced Owen and that's spot on.

Bellamy is a similar player in terms of he likes to use his pace and play off the shoulder of the last defender, but his finishing isn't as consistent, his ability to time his runs isn't as good and he certainly isn't as good as Owen was in his pomp at taking defenders on.

I think the reason he scored so many at Blackburn last season was due to him being the go to guy and also as Blackburn are a smaller club, teams tend to defend higher against them and Bellamy can exploit that space. The difference is that against us (especially at Anfield), teams tend to defend a lot deeper where Bellamy bascially gets no opportunities to get in behind defences. He's not creative enough or technically gifted to overcome this problem a lot of the time. 5 of his 7 league goals this season have been away from home, which may explain my theory further as obviously teams defend higher up the pitch at home. Just a thought, I'm not saying I'm right but it's a possible explanation. I still rate him as a good player, he has a tremendous work rate and his dtermiantion is second to none. Definitely has a big future at the club IMO, but not necessarily as first choice. I think Dirk Kuyt paired with a player like Eto'o or David Villa would be an ideal partnership.

As for this season, I think its about time Fowler got a go as he is still the best finsiher we have, Kuyt and Fowler up front at Anfield and Kuyt/Bellamy away, of course Crouchy can be used as well.

At least we're creating enough chances, the next step is taking them!

by **The_Rock** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:12 pm

Most of the LFC fans i converse with are of the same opinion...they can't wait for this season to end. Next season with 150 million kitty.....we should be challenging for every trophy........rite ?

I don't think it is so easy.... It could all go wrong next season too.

Rafa might spend big money to bring in torres......villa ....etc (ie buy players from his favourite playground). What happens if these players can't adapt to the premier league straight-away ? What if they need another season ?

What if rafa for the 3rd season running...starts the season by rotating like he did this season ? And we end up dropping points like we did this season ?

I am sick of all these "next season it will be better sh1t". We won't know what will happen next season. We won't know how many players start the season being injured.... We just won't know. I myself have been saying this for the last 15 years... and apart from 2 successful years (2001 and 2005), the rest of the 15 years have been a disappointment to me.

My point is .........yeah, the past and future is important.....but what is essential is the present. I don't want this season to end with us getting 4th without any trophies. So if we don't win the champions league...then this season will be a major disappointment even if we finish 2nd in the league......

BTW, i know many ppl ain't gonna like this...but i think kujt is an average player who won't get into manure, arsenal or chelsea's 1st team. So i don't agree that he has been our best buy this season (certainly not when he cost 11 million).

IMO Bellamy is our most potent striker..... If anybody can win us the game on his own against barca (apart from gerrard)...then its bellamy.

by **stmichael** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:30 pm

The way I see it, in a lot of tight games we offer very little in the way of creativity, certainly that explosive edge of your seat creativity that is provided by the likes of Henry, Rooney, Ronaldo, Robben (when he's not bitching about getting mud on his boots), Joe Cole and the like.

I see it as a by-product of Rafa's in depth tactical preparation with the team, of which pragmatism and containment are more core values than they would be with, say, Ferguson or Wenger.

This means that when something does go wrong, there may be a Plan B, but the players we have - bar Gerrad and Garcia - simply don't have the smarts to open up the opposition. Of course, Istanbul and Cardiff buck that trend, but they were due in a large way to some superhuman efforts from Gerrard and Carra.

For me, with my oversimplistic tactical views, it still boils down to a dearth of direct, inspirational flair players and a poacher.

by **Redbilly1960** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:03 pm

Before this season started I honestly thought that "This is the year" It was not long into the season when my thoughts were "Maybe next year".
Rafa has done wonders since his arrival and he will do even more with the financial backing that the takeover has brought he just needs to know there are more shopping centres than Spain.

Season so far
Negatives - Finishing in front of goal, Momo being on the sick for so long, Two Arsenal Games, The Kop on occasion, The plassi supporters leaving the Kop at half time against Arsenal in the Carling cup

Positives - Kuyt's workrate, Gerrard in the middle, Agger (are you Hanson in disguise) going forward, Chavs at Anfield, The Kop have been awesome on occasion

It could be worse

1 - You could be a bitter bluesh1te

2 - You could be a Manure Fan

3 - You could come from Manchester

4 - You could be related to Gary Neville

5 - You could be David Moyes

2007-08 BRING IT ON[B]

by **HOMER** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:42 pm

not been a good season so far, competing with bolton and arsenal for 3rd or 4th place sums it all up really.(maybe reading!)
It all comes down to the barcelona games now - must win - we've got a good chance tho, now that ronaldinho is back on form and eto and messi are back and fit !!!!!

average players bought in the summer is the reason for this underachieving. NO excuses on them needing time to settle in. Manure have 2 new players in their defence (evra, vidic) and they are both playing well - if they're good enough they will settle in quickly.

kuyt seems to be a good buy but is good workrate enough to make someone a good striker - if that was the case then sissoko would be upfront!
as for pennant - 7 million!

back to the drawing board benitez - quality not quantity.

hate to see this great club battling for 4th best.

by **66-1120597113** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:57 pm

Im a bit dissapointed but not surprised with this season!We did sign some new players and i always feel they should be given a full season before we judge to harshly.

The thing that annoys me most is that Reina has the most clean sheets in the league,this is a great foundation for any team to build on but we have not capitalised atal.
We need to be scoring more goals and killing teams off...tbh i feel Kuyt has played well but really with his record he should be hitting far more goals.Next season is critical for him and for us to see if he will make it.
We have dominated most of our games all season but still lost or drew when we should have been 2 0r 3 nil up at times.

The biggest thing we have missing is a consistant 20odd a season striker that is obvious.

As for Pennant,Bellamy and Gonzalez...next season is the big on for them,if they dont play well and consistantly well thet are not good enough and should be sold on.

As for the C/L,i do fancy us against Barca and remain optomistic that we can win it............I'd say our manager and players are fully phsyced up and focused and will give 110% in the C/L...its really all we have left to play for!

by **7_Kewell** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:12 pm

This has been a disappointing season for me, because it should have been a year where we challenged for the title.

We haven’t got close to man utd or Chelsea and the fact we lack creativity on the flanks is a major reason in my opinion. We lack flair…we need a Mcmanaman or someone on the left or right wing who can cut open teams….

Rafa will have to make some major culls to the squad and the following I would all ship out ASAP

Zenden
Hyypia
Dudek
Fowler
Gonzalez
Aurelio
Pennant

These players are either past it…or aren’t ever going to make it at the level we require. Hopefully with the new cash, Rafa will bite the bullet and bring in at least 2 wingers.

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