Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dundalk** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:35 am

I agree when Momo comes back he is going to have to sit on the bench for a while, why break up a winning team, the stats have proven that we are a better team with steve in the middle so leave it as it is.

Momo is a top class player but that dosent mean he should just walk back into the team. look at Heinze for United, he was voted there plyer of the season 2 years ago, got injured and now cant get anywhere near the team.

by **Pedro Maradona** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:32 am

excellent post imo, personally i think gerrard is the ultimate footballer, on the pitch the lad can do everything...and do it all incredibly well, whe he was younger and more of a defensive midfielder he was as good as veira and keane, (keane was one of his footballing heroes i remember him saying) as an attacking midfielder he is amazing, 23 goals last season etc....now he seems to be blending each aspect into his game. he is maturing as a player, using his footballing brain more and more and hopefully (a little bit like roy keane did as he got older) learn to see the bigger picture on the pitch not just solely on his own game. I think gerrard can only get better as he gets older and wiser

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:51 am

Agreed that Gerrard has shown a good deal of discipline since Momo's been out. Yesterday wasn't the first game where we've seen Xabi in more advanced positions than Gerrard at points during the game. That's exactly how it should work--one goes forward while the other sits and shields the defence.

I agree with Metalhead, Gerrard's flick forward to Kuyt in the second half was sublime and should probably have led to our third. His understanding with Kuyt and Crouch (haven't seen it as much with Bellamy) is really coming along and could be the start of something really special going forward.

As a firm advocate of Gerrard on the right earlier this season, I'll hold my hand up here and say he probably needs to stay in the middle now. Keep him central and partnered with Xabi. Momo can be one of Rafa's celebrated "different options" off the bench for the time being.

by **Espionage** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:01 am

peewee wrote:all i will say with gerrard in the centre we have won 11 games and conceded one goal whilst scoring goals for fun, lets go back to sissoko in the center earlier in the season and gerrad on the right, well you know what i am about to say........

i have said all along gerrard should be in the centre, i know we all have our reasons why sissoko should be there but its becoming a bit of a catchphrase for me now, 'look at the facts'.

the facts dont lie guys, gerrard is a central midfielder of the highest calibre and to move him when sissoko is back will be a massive mistake

Last season we had better number when Gerrard was on the right, this season we have better numbers when he is in the middle. The facts are never conclusive because there are too many other variables. Saying that Momo in the middle didnt work early this season is a bit harsh as our defense was poor.

I have always been an advocate of playing Gerrard on the right/left with Momo in the middle and i still think that this is what Rafa will do eventually. Momo will not play every game but he will play alot. What would you rather see versus Barcalona?

Gonzalez/Riise/Aurilio/Kewell Alonso Gerrard Pennant

OR

Gonzalez/Riise/Aurilio/Kewell Alonso Momo Gerrard

I know who I want, and I think that most people agree that against the best opposition we should always use Momo to break up play and give Gerrard a freer role because sometimes our team lacks a bit of imagination in the midfield (especially with Garcia out long-term).
What I dont understand is why many think that Momo is good enough for the Chelsea's/Man U's/Arsenal's if hes not good enough for the rest.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:21 am

ok but i never quite said that sissoko doesnt work in the middle, the point i am aiming at is that we perform better with gerrard in the middle, and gerrard also performs better there. this is my opinion. sissoko is a great player, i cant criticise him, but i feel that when he is in the team gerrard is pushed somewhere where he is less effective.

i know some will disagree with me but thats great, what a dilema to have, where should we play one of the worlds best players

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:27 am

While I keep thinking our midfield is stronger with Sissoko I also agree the all time classic concept that a player that has been away for a while should wait his opportunity patiently if the team is working. Classic.

I also think that the 3 of them could play together if Rafa actually was faithful to the Spanish way to understand football, for that he should play with one pure striker less, Momo and Xabi behind Gerrard who'd have a more free role, 2 attacking wingers, and a striker prefferably Kuyt.

But that option seems too revolutionary to use in England

. I think we'd be attacking and solid at the same time that way, and those who think that LFC shouldn't play that formation because it would be too conservative, remember that we played 3 centrals against a relegation team recently -which might seem conservative at first glance- and we scored 3 goals.

The reason for Rafa sticking always to play 2 strikers no matter what will remain a mistery to me always, but, since everything is working I won't be complaining.

Momo will have his opportunity because Rafa is faithful to the rotation policy, and besides, when we lose a game -and we will- half the forum will be asking he should have been always in the team

One last note, I like Gerrard in his natural position: Middle, although he's an excellent right midfielder. But someone could argue that he got 23 goals in a season, playing in the right most of the games.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:26 am

I've always said that CM was Gerrards best position, which IMHO I think is. And I've also turned a blind eye to those who say he isnt disciplined. True his partnership with Hamman had him going forward more and exploiting areas ahead of him, knowing full well that Didi would sit and hold. But he's always had the ability to track back and tackle. Even when he first broke into the side as a RB, he would of needed the discipline. As he's become one of the more focull points in our teams play, he has been known to drift and stay further upfield. And get caught out on the odd occassion.

All I think it took was a word from Rafa on the training ground, and also the communication with Xabi when training. And after the run of games, which I said he'd need to strike up a proper understanding with Alonso its become apparent he is capable of doing the job in the center.

I would agree he hasnt looked at his sublime best and taking on teams single handedly, maybe because he's had to comprimise some of that in order to play the midfield role he has to effect. Thats not to say, he still cant do the great things he's capable of.

And IMO it shouldnt just be rotation that gets Momo back in the team, he should be made to force his way back in with some sub appearances. Because I dont believe Gerrards position should be taken off him just like that. And recent results would conclude that.

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:30 pm

To be honest, Gerrard's position is largely irrelevant in the context of this thread. I'm just pleased that he's now showing glimpses of the old Stevie when he used to track back all the time and do those great sliding tackles to stop the opposition player getting through. Although I love the new "attacking midfielder" that he has become, I did get the feeling that his natural aggression had somehow been coached out of him in the last couple of seasons.

Another thing that Steven Gerrard has improved on as the season as progressed is the fact that he is far more intelligent in his forward runs. He is no longer leaving Xabi exposed in the centre anymore.

by **MASTER** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:59 pm

Good point Sabre
What you say makes senseas we lnow that Momo is one of Rafa's favourites and then we could play something like this:
Reina
Finnan Agger Carragher Risse

Gerrard Alonso Sissoko

Pennant/ Kuyt/
Bellamy Bellamy

Kuyt/
Crouch

Because then all Rafa's favourites play and we compensate for our Ace in the pack Luis.
Plus we know from the world cup that Kuyt can play anywhere in a front three and as an attacking midfielder.
And Bellamy will just float around causing problems.

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:22 pm

peewee wrote:ok but i never quite said that sissoko doesnt work in the middle, the point i am aiming at is that we perform better with gerrard in the middle, and gerrard also performs better there. this is my opinion. sissoko is a great player, i cant criticise him, but i feel that when he is in the team gerrard is pushed somewhere where he is less effective.

i know some will disagree with me but thats great, what a dilema to have, where should we play one of the worlds best players

I find it incredible how short people's memories are. Sissoko was one of the finds of last season, and one of very few players to show class during our poor start to the season (along with Agger.) Now he's injured it seems like people are determined to pin our improvement down to some obvious change and for a lot of people it seems to be Gerrard in the centre replacing Sissoko. To which I say 'boll#cks'. If those around Sissoko (including Gerrard) had been performing to the required standard at the start of the season we would not be having this discussion now.

The timing makes me laugh as well, normally if you criticise someone or say they're too limited they can bounce right back and show you what they're all about. Momo's injured, he's in a position where he can't alter people's opinions of him with his performances. Her's like a sitting duck for anyone who wants to take shots at him.

As others have said above, football is a squad game these days, and I don't think there's many better central midfield squads in the world than

Gerrard - Alonso - Sissoko - Mascherano.

Provided he arrives of course, which I'm confident he will.

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:56 pm

MASTER wrote:Good point Sabre
What you say makes senseas we lnow that Momo is one of Rafa's favourites and then we could play something like this:
Reina
Finnan Agger Carragher Risse

Gerrard Alonso Sissoko

Pennant/ Kuyt/
Bellamy Bellamy

Kuyt/
Crouch

Because then all Rafa's favourites play and we compensate for our Ace in the pack Luis.
Plus we know from the world cup that Kuyt can play anywhere in a front three and as an attacking midfielder.
And Bellamy will just float around causing problems.

not really sure about kuyt and bellamy playing wide in a 4-3-3 formation. we don't have the ideal players at the moment to play that formation imo.

by **ConnO'var** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:09 pm

peewee wrote:all i will say with gerrard in the centre we have won 11 games and conceded one goal whilst scoring goals for fun, lets go back to sissoko in the center earlier in the season and gerrad on the right, well you know what i am about to say........

i have said all along gerrard should be in the centre, i know we all have our reasons why sissoko should be there but its becoming a bit of a catchphrase for me now, 'look at the facts'.

the facts dont lie guys, gerrard is a central midfielder of the highest calibre and to move him when sissoko is back will be a massive mistake

Hear! Hear!...

Agree 100%....

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:15 pm

Gerrar had disciple in last matches.

But to be honest I'll be stubborn in a point I made a while ago, scoring first is important. And last matches we had great accuracy goal-wise, which allows you holding positions and doesn't force you to risk.

About my "Continental formation" I was thinking in something like

Finnan Carra Hyypia Aurelio/Riise

Pennant Alonso Sissoko Bellamy (after all he falls to the wings often)

--------------- Gerrard

-----------------Kuyt(Crouch)

As I've said often "formation" is not that important as then the players swap positions and all that, but I do think we could play our 3 midfielders all together in the pitch, without Gerrard being a right midfielder.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:20 pm

stmichael wrote:
peewee wrote:ok but i never quite said that sissoko doesnt work in the middle, the point i am aiming at is that we perform better with gerrard in the middle, and gerrard also performs better there. this is my opinion. sissoko is a great player, i cant criticise him, but i feel that when he is in the team gerrard is pushed somewhere where he is less effective.

i know some will disagree with me but thats great, what a dilema to have, where should we play one of the worlds best players

I find it incredible how short people's memories are. Sissoko was one of the finds of last season, and one of very few players to show class during our poor start to the season (along with Agger.) Now he's injured it seems like people are determined to pin our improvement down to some obvious change and for a lot of people it seems to be Gerrard in the centre replacing Sissoko. To which I say 'boll#cks'. If those around Sissoko (including Gerrard) had been performing to the required standard at the start of the season we would not be having this discussion now.

The timing makes me laugh as well, normally if you criticise someone or say they're too limited they can bounce right back and show you what they're all about. Momo's injured, he's in a position where he can't alter people's opinions of him with his performances. Her's like a sitting duck for anyone who wants to take shots at him.

As others have said above, football is a squad game these days, and I don't think there's many better central midfield squads in the world than

Gerrard - Alonso - Sissoko - Mascherano.

Provided he arrives of course, which I'm confident he will.

I dont think you'll find many Liverpool fans pinning Sissoko out and Gerrard in the center as soley the reason why our form has improved.

The answer to that is, we've improved as a team collectively. If what you were saying about Gerrards position being that influencial and people holding that as our improvement over Momo. Dont you think there would of been a s.hit load of threads stating that ?
Like most have said, he hasnt been at his world class best constantly this season, so nobody can say thats the only reason we've improved.

Its been as a team we've improved.

In saying that though, if our form would of dipped somewhat, I can imagine the "Gerrards a better RM" brigade coming out in full force saying thats the reason why we're playing so bad. Because he's not disciplined enough and is lasy and Alonso is doing enough work, without having to wipe Gerrards a.rse, those were some of the comments flying around here at the time.

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:05 pm

Just because he can play box to box doesn't mean he should; likewise rightback. Gerrard is an unstoppable force as an attacking player and the duty of the manager is to provide a platform from which he can be unleashed. It's a misnomer to suggest he's being played out of position when he's not in the centre because he really doesn't have a position. It's essentially a free role when we've got the ball; the position only becomes relevant when we haven't, but his pace and stamina allow him to get back without compromising our solidity - especially when there's a quality full back behind him like Steve Finnan. The whole point is that he can go wherever he can do most damage; hence last season he popped up all over the place and scores twenty three goals. Steven Gerrard in a free role is almost unplayable for opponents, in my opinion.

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