Liverpool FC Forum

davo_LFC wrote:Not only is he a snivelling little sh!tbag but he is also a fu.cking hypocrit. Last night on QT when they were goin on about iraq an he was saying "blair should apologise" etc etc and yet that c.unt can't apologise to the families of the 96 and admit that he lied.
I was watchin QT an it was doin me head in coz they were only talkin about the iraq war and i was thinkin 'when is someone gonna challenge the tw@t over hillsborough' so went to bed, annoyed

Ciggy wrote:Its not that bad on here compared to RAWK every other topic on there is about him and in the process LFC are getting ignored and he is getting all the attention.

The kop where magnificent in last saturdays game against Arsenal best support in the world.

What they done was make it clear that he is a kunt and they want him to tell the truth.
He had the oppurtunity last night on QT but he didnt and he wont, he may have another agenda behind it, by not saying he lied.

His agenda might be if he brings Hillsborough up now and again when hes got no work and not in the spot light we kick up a fuss bang he is back on the front page of the local paper.
More publicity thats what journos do they are good at publicity stunts be it for themselves or for their employee.

What I am about to say now may shock some people, that night when my mum got back from Hillsborough all she kept repeating over and over again was.

everything was just coming away from them, Everything was just coming away from them
Meaning they where dead and there was urine and excrement coming away from the people on the pitch.
There is that headline.

They urined on the police.
They might have done but they where dead, dying or where in shock.
Well feckin say so then and not put it like they done it intentional.

They stole from  the bodies

no they feckin didnt they checked the pockets to see if they had identification.

They where drunk
No they wernt a few cans on the way down to a football ground doesnt make anyone p.issed.

3 headlines with the intention to shock the nation because it was scousers it happened to and to give us more of a bad name.

This mackenzie fella knows he was wrong but doesnt want to look like a complete tw@t by admitting it.
He is totally loving all this attention he is receiving now, loving it.
There would have been no Justice night last saturday had he not stood up in that dinner party a few weeks ago in Newcastle, he intentionally brought it up to get back in the spotlight.
And what better way to do it than to use us for his own propaganda his own agenda to make more money, people who are not aware what he done will ask why are the Liverpool fans and scousers up in arms over him.
They will get told he said this and that, oh right.

But the truth of the matter is no one gives a fuck only us the BBC are not going to sack him because of us, infact they may hire him more to get their viewings up of the programs he appears on.

Every dog has his day, god is not asleep he will get his pay back.

But in the meantime we have to let the 96 rest in peace he is using their deaths to promote himself total lack of respect for anyone other than himself.

Lets not get a bad name and dissrespect ourselves in the process.

Ciggy I hear what you say, and I know your feelings are that it should not be raked up, but this post highlights why it should be brought to the fore:

There are thousands of people out there who think we should just try to forget about the fight for justice, and move on. I can’t answer on behalf of everyone else, but this is the reason that I can’t and won’t. I am going to try and include what I feel are the most important factors in the build up to, and immediate aftermath of Hillsborough for those that don’t know.

I know a lot of people on here know a lot of the facts already. However, I am trying to compile the salient (factual) points that will hopefully make people realise that the Hillsborough disaster WAS NOT caused by Liverpool fans, despite what the media said at the time.

Why do so many people think that Liverpool fans were to blame for Hillsborough?

Firstly it is important to remember that the year before the Hillsborough disaster, Liverpool met Nottingham Forest in the same ground, and in the same round of the same competition. In both years Liverpool fans were given the smaller Leppings Lane end of the ground, despite having the larger fan base. In 1988, nobody died and nobody was seriously hurt, although there were reports of over-crowding.

Chief Inspector David Duckenfield was the most senior policeman at Hillsborough on the 15th April 1989, the year of the disaster. He had virtually no experience of policing a big match, and was only drafted in a week or so before the match. This was because the police officer that had policed the game the year before, had been suspended after an initiation prank on a new P.C. ended with the new recruit being too traumatised to work.

When a police force undertake an operation such as policing a football match, a detailed report is made that describes in minute detail what was done; by whom; at what time and how. This is called an operational order, and policing the match in 1989 should not have been too difficult to police for Duckenfield, as he has a complete, successfully carried out operational order from the year before. Crucially though, the Inspector decided to make changes to this operational order, and this, among other things led to the disaster.

His first mistake was that despite his limited experience, he decided that he would go against the wisdom of the officer from the year before and decided that there was no need to have police officers posted at varying distances away from the ground. In 1988, police officers were posted at varying distances to check tickets, give directions, and in the event that too many fans arrived at a certain time, they could stem the flow towards the antiquated turnstiles and relieve the pressure. Without these officers, fans were left to head for the ground unchecked, and after bad motorway traffic, many fans arrived at the Leppings Lane end of the ground between 2pm and 2.30pm, and the turnstiles could not admit people quick enough.

In the absence of the outer placed police officers, fans started to congregate around the turnstiles, but they were not able to admit people quick enough and a dangerous crush started to build outside the ground. After being asked several times over the radio by Murray, the most senior policeman outside the ground, Duckenfield next gave the order to open gate C.

Gate C is an exit gate, and as such is designed to let thousands of people leave the ground quickly, but used in reverse it was lethal. Even at this stage, by following the previous year’s operation order, Duckenfield could have averted the disaster. In 1988, there were police officers posted at the entrance of each of the central pens (3+4) and once these pens were full, people we re-directed to the pens on the wings. In 1989, no direction was given. Fans were left to go down a tunnel that led them to the central pens, and once they were there the weight of fans from behind meant that they couldn’t go back.

From his position in the police control box, Duckenfield could see the disaster unfolding. As a part of the subsequent investigation, people visited the police control box and testified that you could “see the colour of people’s eyes” such was the power of the zoom facility on the CCTV. So if this was the case, it was obviously possible to see people vomiting and turning blue as they were crushed against the perimeter fencing. Duckenfield would later testify that once he realised what he had caused he “froze” This version of events is the real truth of the Hillsborough, and why many officers on duty that day wrote in their report that there was no direction from the control box. Duckenfield had basically realised his mistakes, and presumably feared the consequences for him personally.

His mind no doubt racing, he started to think of a way out for him and so when the referee stopped the game at 3.06pm and went to the police control box for information, instead of admitting his fatal errors and short comings, he lied. He told the referee and anyone else who would listen, that drunken Liverpool fans had turned up late and broken down gate C. A picture of mindless, drunk, ticket less yobs was painted in Duckenfield’s attempt to shift the blame. Later in court, he admitted that he had lied. By then, it was too late and the damage had been done.

While Liverpool mourned its dead, Duckenfield’s lies had gathered a pace, and his self-preserving story was spun to the nation’s media. The following Tuesday or Wednesday, several newspapers ran the story that Duckenfield had fabricated, the worst offender by some distance was the Sun. Under the editorship of Kelvin MacKenzie. He ran a headline shouting “The Truth” and three bullet pointed sub headlines that read “Some fans pick-pocketed victims” “Some fans urinated on brave cops” “some fans beat up PC giving kiss of life”

Day’s after losing their loved ones, they had to read this evil **** about them.

All of these headlines were later proven to be lies. I’ll say that again ALL OF THESE HEADLINES WERE LATER PROVED TO BE LIES but in a nation that is told what to think by the media, Liverpool fans had been painted as the villains of the piece. Even as MacKenzie laid out his front page, a senior ex-colleague could see what was happening and later described the story as “wrong” and “a classic smear” but complained that by this time “MacKenzie’s power was so complete that the only person capable of reining him in was Murdoch”

I ask anyone now to try and put yourself in the position of a parent, who sent their son or daughter off to watch a football match never to return. Just a few days later, while the pain is still overwhelming and all encompassing, you read that it was their fault. You have to read vile, vicious lies about your dead baby. How would you feel? That people are still walking around blaming your son and his fellow supporters for a disaster that was caused by “a complete breakdown in police control” according to the Taylor report would surely make you angry?

That is why I can never move on and let this go, because the truth needs to be told.

As I mentioned, other papers ran similar stories, but none so graphically and viciously as the Sun. To their credit, the other newspapers quickly apologised and withdrew their stores once they realised that they had been spun a pack of lies. The Sun made no such apology, and the arrogant MacKenzie is still telling all who will listen that he was right then, and he is right now.

Personally, I can’t really blame the newspapers for running the story in the first pace. I can most definitely blame them for the vicious way in which they set about Liverpool and its supporters, but I used to think that if a senior police officer tells you a story you have to believe it. I mean if you can’t trust the police, then who can you trust?

The Sun did the most damage. It was than and is still now the biggest selling tabloid newspaper and it told people a pack of lies. For many people though, the headline is king and that awful story would be their truth; despite the facts. Still today I meet people who believe that to be the truth, because that’s all they read at the time. The Sun was immediately boycotted by Liverpool fans and still is to this day.
Nobody other than those that feel affected would follow the subsequent Taylor Enquiry, and the court cases as the real truth unfolds. They saw a headline and read a story, and that is now their truth. Yes, the Sun eventually made a half-arsed apology but far, far too late to mean anything other than “please stop the boycott, and buy our paper again because we miss your cash”

Police officers on duty that day were asked to submit their recollections of that day. Many of them noted that there was little or no contact from police control. The most damning reports were taken back to their author’s, and the officers were asked to amend them because it “didn’t look very good” if a police officer criticised the police. “it doesn’t look very good” because it wasn’t very ******* good, and the police were blatantly just covering their . A cover up was planned, and the blame was shifted in one of the worst miscarriages of justice I have even known. The guilt walk free and the innocent are vilified. It’s still makes me angry and sick to the stomach to this day.

Did you know that after SYP defended Duckenfield through private prosecution after private prosecution, that they charged him internally for his mismanagement of the Hillsborough disaster, and he even wormed his way out of that one by retiring sick. So even the South Yorkshire Police knew he was guilty, but didn’t want the public to know. Doesn’t look good on the force if people find out we cocked up big style and 96 ended up dead. Much better if we used the old football hooligan card, and make the Liverpool fans out to be the guilty party.

Duckenfield actually admitted to a court that he lied. He admitted that Liverpool fans were not to blame for Hillsborough and that he “froze” and he “lied” – his words, not mine.

Sadly, the headlines had long since run though and the damage was already done.

For those that live from headline to headline, and can’t be bothered to look a little deeper I guess we’ll always be to blame in their eyes. For those that are willing to look a little closer, you will see that Liverpool were victims that day, not perpetrators.

So for my fellow reds that can no longer sing and shout and support the reds; for my extended family that no longer have life; for the 96 that died at Hillsborough I will only let it go when people know the real truth.

You’ll Never Walk Alone is a way of life, and I’ll stand shoulder to shoulder with my fellow reds’ and tell the real truth of that terrible day to all who have been poisoned by the Sun and Kelvin MacKenzie.

Justice and truth is all we want.

You’ll Never Walk Alone.

Leonmc0708 wrote:

davo_LFC wrote:Not only is he a snivelling little sh!tbag but he is also a fu.cking hypocrit. Last night on QT when they were goin on about iraq an he was saying "blair should apologise" etc etc and yet that c.unt can't apologise to the families of the 96 and admit that he lied.
I was watchin QT an it was doin me head in coz they were only talkin about the iraq war and i was thinkin 'when is someone gonna challenge the tw@t over hillsborough' so went to bed, annoyed

davo lad, in a shocking irony, he demanded that Blair apologise for the fact that families will not see loved ones come home.

Leon, I think the fucker knew fine well what he was saying by asking Blair to apologise; he knew it would prove ironic and done it to wind us up. Nailed on. He might be a but hes a witty one and me thinks he chose that line especially to wind up.

Leonmc0708 wrote:

Ciggy wrote:Its not that bad on here compared to RAWK every other topic on there is about him and in the process LFC are getting ignored and he is getting all the attention.

The kop where magnificent in last saturdays game against Arsenal best support in the world.

What they done was make it clear that he is a kunt and they want him to tell the truth.
He had the oppurtunity last night on QT but he didnt and he wont, he may have another agenda behind it, by not saying he lied.

His agenda might be if he brings Hillsborough up now and again when hes got no work and not in the spot light we kick up a fuss bang he is back on the front page of the local paper.
More publicity thats what journos do they are good at publicity stunts be it for themselves or for their employee.

What I am about to say now may shock some people, that night when my mum got back from Hillsborough all she kept repeating over and over again was.

everything was just coming away from them, Everything was just coming away from them
Meaning they where dead and there was urine and excrement coming away from the people on the pitch.
There is that headline.

They urined on the police.
They might have done but they where dead, dying or where in shock.
Well feckin say so then and not put it like they done it intentional.

They stole from  the bodies

no they feckin didnt they checked the pockets to see if they had identification.

They where drunk
No they wernt a few cans on the way down to a football ground doesnt make anyone p.issed.

3 headlines with the intention to shock the nation because it was scousers it happened to and to give us more of a bad name.

This mackenzie fella knows he was wrong but doesnt want to look like a complete tw@t by admitting it.
He is totally loving all this attention he is receiving now, loving it.
There would have been no Justice night last saturday had he not stood up in that dinner party a few weeks ago in Newcastle, he intentionally brought it up to get back in the spotlight.
And what better way to do it than to use us for his own propaganda his own agenda to make more money, people who are not aware what he done will ask why are the Liverpool fans and scousers up in arms over him.
They will get told he said this and that, oh right.

But the truth of the matter is no one gives a fuck only us the BBC are not going to sack him because of us, infact they may hire him more to get their viewings up of the programs he appears on.

Every dog has his day, god is not asleep he will get his pay back.

But in the meantime we have to let the 96 rest in peace he is using their deaths to promote himself total lack of respect for anyone other than himself.

Lets not get a bad name and dissrespect ourselves in the process.

Ciggy I hear what you say, and I know your feelings are that it should not be raked up, but this post highlights why it should be brought to the fore:

There are thousands of people out there who think we should just try to forget about the fight for justice, and move on. I can’t answer on behalf of everyone else, but this is the reason that I can’t and won’t. I am going to try and include what I feel are the most important factors in the build up to, and immediate aftermath of Hillsborough for those that don’t know.

I know a lot of people on here know a lot of the facts already. However, I am trying to compile the salient (factual) points that will hopefully make people realise that the Hillsborough disaster WAS NOT caused by Liverpool fans, despite what the media said at the time.

Why do so many people think that Liverpool fans were to blame for Hillsborough?

Firstly it is important to remember that the year before the Hillsborough disaster, Liverpool met Nottingham Forest in the same ground, and in the same round of the same competition. In both years Liverpool fans were given the smaller Leppings Lane end of the ground, despite having the larger fan base. In 1988, nobody died and nobody was seriously hurt, although there were reports of over-crowding.

Chief Inspector David Duckenfield was the most senior policeman at Hillsborough on the 15th April 1989, the year of the disaster. He had virtually no experience of policing a big match, and was only drafted in a week or so before the match. This was because the police officer that had policed the game the year before, had been suspended after an initiation prank on a new P.C. ended with the new recruit being too traumatised to work.

When a police force undertake an operation such as policing a football match, a detailed report is made that describes in minute detail what was done; by whom; at what time and how. This is called an operational order, and policing the match in 1989 should not have been too difficult to police for Duckenfield, as he has a complete, successfully carried out operational order from the year before. Crucially though, the Inspector decided to make changes to this operational order, and this, among other things led to the disaster.

His first mistake was that despite his limited experience, he decided that he would go against the wisdom of the officer from the year before and decided that there was no need to have police officers posted at varying distances away from the ground. In 1988, police officers were posted at varying distances to check tickets, give directions, and in the event that too many fans arrived at a certain time, they could stem the flow towards the antiquated turnstiles and relieve the pressure. Without these officers, fans were left to head for the ground unchecked, and after bad motorway traffic, many fans arrived at the Leppings Lane end of the ground between 2pm and 2.30pm, and the turnstiles could not admit people quick enough.

In the absence of the outer placed police officers, fans started to congregate around the turnstiles, but they were not able to admit people quick enough and a dangerous crush started to build outside the ground. After being asked several times over the radio by Murray, the most senior policeman outside the ground, Duckenfield next gave the order to open gate C.

Gate C is an exit gate, and as such is designed to let thousands of people leave the ground quickly, but used in reverse it was lethal. Even at this stage, by following the previous year’s operation order, Duckenfield could have averted the disaster. In 1988, there were police officers posted at the entrance of each of the central pens (3+4) and once these pens were full, people we re-directed to the pens on the wings. In 1989, no direction was given. Fans were left to go down a tunnel that led them to the central pens, and once they were there the weight of fans from behind meant that they couldn’t go back.

From his position in the police control box, Duckenfield could see the disaster unfolding. As a part of the subsequent investigation, people visited the police control box and testified that you could “see the colour of people’s eyes” such was the power of the zoom facility on the CCTV. So if this was the case, it was obviously possible to see people vomiting and turning blue as they were crushed against the perimeter fencing. Duckenfield would later testify that once he realised what he had caused he “froze” This version of events is the real truth of the Hillsborough, and why many officers on duty that day wrote in their report that there was no direction from the control box. Duckenfield had basically realised his mistakes, and presumably feared the consequences for him personally.

His mind no doubt racing, he started to think of a way out for him and so when the referee stopped the game at 3.06pm and went to the police control box for information, instead of admitting his fatal errors and short comings, he lied. He told the referee and anyone else who would listen, that drunken Liverpool fans had turned up late and broken down gate C. A picture of mindless, drunk, ticket less yobs was painted in Duckenfield’s attempt to shift the blame. Later in court, he admitted that he had lied. By then, it was too late and the damage had been done.

While Liverpool mourned its dead, Duckenfield’s lies had gathered a pace, and his self-preserving story was spun to the nation’s media. The following Tuesday or Wednesday, several newspapers ran the story that Duckenfield had fabricated, the worst offender by some distance was the Sun. Under the editorship of Kelvin MacKenzie. He ran a headline shouting “The Truth” and three bullet pointed sub headlines that read “Some fans pick-pocketed victims” “Some fans urinated on brave cops” “some fans beat up PC giving kiss of life”

Day’s after losing their loved ones, they had to read this evil **** about them.

All of these headlines were later proven to be lies. I’ll say that again ALL OF THESE HEADLINES WERE LATER PROVED TO BE LIES but in a nation that is told what to think by the media, Liverpool fans had been painted as the villains of the piece. Even as MacKenzie laid out his front page, a senior ex-colleague could see what was happening and later described the story as “wrong” and “a classic smear” but complained that by this time “MacKenzie’s power was so complete that the only person capable of reining him in was Murdoch”

I ask anyone now to try and put yourself in the position of a parent, who sent their son or daughter off to watch a football match never to return. Just a few days later, while the pain is still overwhelming and all encompassing, you read that it was their fault. You have to read vile, vicious lies about your dead baby. How would you feel? That people are still walking around blaming your son and his fellow supporters for a disaster that was caused by “a complete breakdown in police control” according to the Taylor report would surely make you angry?

That is why I can never move on and let this go, because the truth needs to be told.

As I mentioned, other papers ran similar stories, but none so graphically and viciously as the Sun. To their credit, the other newspapers quickly apologised and withdrew their stores once they realised that they had been spun a pack of lies. The Sun made no such apology, and the arrogant MacKenzie is still telling all who will listen that he was right then, and he is right now.

Personally, I can’t really blame the newspapers for running the story in the first pace. I can most definitely blame them for the vicious way in which they set about Liverpool and its supporters, but I used to think that if a senior police officer tells you a story you have to believe it. I mean if you can’t trust the police, then who can you trust?

The Sun did the most damage. It was than and is still now the biggest selling tabloid newspaper and it told people a pack of lies. For many people though, the headline is king and that awful story would be their truth; despite the facts. Still today I meet people who believe that to be the truth, because that’s all they read at the time. The Sun was immediately boycotted by Liverpool fans and still is to this day.
Nobody other than those that feel affected would follow the subsequent Taylor Enquiry, and the court cases as the real truth unfolds. They saw a headline and read a story, and that is now their truth. Yes, the Sun eventually made a half-arsed apology but far, far too late to mean anything other than “please stop the boycott, and buy our paper again because we miss your cash”

Police officers on duty that day were asked to submit their recollections of that day. Many of them noted that there was little or no contact from police control. The most damning reports were taken back to their author’s, and the officers were asked to amend them because it “didn’t look very good” if a police officer criticised the police. “it doesn’t look very good” because it wasn’t very ******* good, and the police were blatantly just covering their . A cover up was planned, and the blame was shifted in one of the worst miscarriages of justice I have even known. The guilt walk free and the innocent are vilified. It’s still makes me angry and sick to the stomach to this day.

Did you know that after SYP defended Duckenfield through private prosecution after private prosecution, that they charged him internally for his mismanagement of the Hillsborough disaster, and he even wormed his way out of that one by retiring sick. So even the South Yorkshire Police knew he was guilty, but didn’t want the public to know. Doesn’t look good on the force if people find out we cocked up big style and 96 ended up dead. Much better if we used the old football hooligan card, and make the Liverpool fans out to be the guilty party.

Duckenfield actually admitted to a court that he lied. He admitted that Liverpool fans were not to blame for Hillsborough and that he “froze” and he “lied” – his words, not mine.

Sadly, the headlines had long since run though and the damage was already done.

For those that live from headline to headline, and can’t be bothered to look a little deeper I guess we’ll always be to blame in their eyes. For those that are willing to look a little closer, you will see that Liverpool were victims that day, not perpetrators.

So for my fellow reds that can no longer sing and shout and support the reds; for my extended family that no longer have life; for the 96 that died at Hillsborough I will only let it go when people know the real truth.

You’ll Never Walk Alone is a way of life, and I’ll stand shoulder to shoulder with my fellow reds’ and tell the real truth of that terrible day to all who have been poisoned by the Sun and Kelvin MacKenzie.

Justice and truth is all we want.

You’ll Never Walk Alone.

Leonmc0708 wrote:

davo_LFC wrote:Not only is he a snivelling little sh!tbag but he is also a fu.cking hypocrit. Last night on QT when they were goin on about iraq an he was saying "blair should apologise" etc etc and yet that c.unt can't apologise to the families of the 96 and admit that he lied.
I was watchin QT an it was doin me head in coz they were only talkin about the iraq war and i was thinkin 'when is someone gonna challenge the tw@t over hillsborough' so went to bed, annoyed

davo lad, in a shocking irony, he demanded that Blair apologise for the fact that families will not see loved ones come home.

I heard him say that, what a hypocritical b[B]astard he is and when he was questioned about hillsborough he had a smug grin on his face. Ferkin