Liverpool FC Forum

by **Rafa D** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:35 am

Hi Everyone,

Hope everyone had a nice Christmas, just a shame about the result yesterday. :down:

While watching the game yesterday, I felt we deserved something from the game. Bellamy once again impressed me with his general play and always being in and around the action. Crouch could of had a hatrick and Xabi Alonso's passing was excellent again. However the proverbial "sucker punch" happened again to us with Benni McCarthy scoring probably their only good chance.

We were chasing the game once they scored and this is what got me thinking about Rafa's subs during the match. I am a big fan of Rafa, as many of you know. But I feel a slight critcism is the big fellas use of subs during a match. Yesterday we fell one - nil behind and he brought on:

Crouch - Kuyt (56)
Aurelio - Gonzalez (64)
Bellamy - Luis Garcia (76)

All decent subs, but for my liking they were not attacking enough. We were chasing a game and needed to score and these subs were just too similar for my liking. Its all like for like players.

Its not nice to say it but, Mourinho has brought a lot to the English game and his use of subs is something to be admired and respected. I hate him but credit where credit is due, if he is losing a game, or even drawing, his use of subs is very adventurous and gets the results for him. If he is losing or drawing, he brings on his attackers for his defenders, he plays 3 - 3 - 4 and really cranks up the pressure on the opposing teams. Imagine your Paul Jewell and you have just got back into the game to make it 2 - 2 all and he sends on Shevchenko and Kalou for Geremi and Makaleke. What do you do? Attack or Defend? What formation do you play? What subs do you do? He makes the opposing teams worry and more often than not it results in Chelsea getting the winner. I know it could spectatularly blow up in your face like Chelsea at Newcastle a few years ago but I think its something I would like to see the team have a good at.

At the moment our subs are very passive. Its man for man. Imagine yesterday if Benitez had brought on Kuyt for Finnan and Garcia for Riise. We could go 3 at the back and Xabi sitting with Garcia, Gerrard, Bellamy and Gonzalez all pushing forward with Kuyt and Crouch in the box. It would of been a worrying time for the Blackburn defence to contend with that. I know your open to a counter but with that much attacking presence on the pitch, it worries the opposition and the manager.

Its not a pop, obviously Rafa knows what he is doing , and is much more qualified than me, just a suggestion and to get the general consensus on the sub policy.

Cheers

Rafa-Dodd

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:26 am

Rafa-Dodd wrote:Hi Everyone,

Hope everyone had a nice Christmas, just a shame about the result yesterday.

While watching the game yesterday, I felt we deserved something from the game. Bellamy once again impressed me with his general play and always being in and around the action. Crouch could of had a hatrick and Xabi Alonso's passing was excellent again. However the proverbial "sucker punch" happened again to us with Benni McCarthy scoring probably their only good chance.

We were chasing the game once they scored and this is what got me thinking about Rafa's subs during the match. I am a big fan of Rafa, as many of you know. But I feel a slight critcism is the big fellas use of subs during a match. Yesterday we fell one - nil behind and he brought on:

Crouch - Kuyt (56)
Aurelio - Gonzalez (64)
Bellamy - Luis Garcia (76)

All decent subs, but for my liking they were not attacking enough. We were chasing a game and needed to score and these subs were just too similar for my liking. Its all like for like players.

Its not nice to say it but, Mourinho has brought a lot to the English game and his use of subs is something to be admired and respected. I hate him but credit where credit is due, if he is losing a game, or even drawing, his use of subs is very adventurous and gets the results for him. If he is losing or drawing, he brings on his attackers for his defenders, he plays 3 - 3 - 4 and really cranks up the pressure on the opposing teams. Imagine your Paul Jewell and you have just got back into the game to make it 2 - 2 all and he sends on Shevchenko and Kalou for Geremi and Makaleke. What do you do? Attack or Defend? What formation do you play? What subs do you do? He makes the opposing teams worry and more often than not it results in Chelsea getting the winner. I know it could spectatularly blow up in your face like Chelsea at Newcastle a few years ago but I think its something I would like to see the team have a good at.

At the moment our subs are very passive. Its man for man. Imagine yesterday if Benitez had brought on Kuyt for Finnan and Garcia for Riise. We could go 3 at the back and Xabi sitting with Garcia, Gerrard, Bellamy and Gonzalez all pushing forward with Kuyt and Crouch in the box. It would of been a worrying time for the Blackburn defence to contend with that. I know your open to a counter but with that much attacking presence on the pitch, it worries the opposition and the manager.

Its not a pop, obviously Rafa knows what he is doing , and is much more qualified than me, just a suggestion and to get the general consensus on the sub policy.

Cheers

Rafa-Dodd

Rafa should NOT change the combination between CB and kuyt .......

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:50 am

I agree Rafa. Sometimes you have to go for it by putting more attackers on the field, especially as Gerrard looked to be carrying an injury most of the second half, so one of our main threats was diminished. I would have kept Crouch on(he was causing problems even if he had missed a few), brought Kuyt and Garcia on for Gonzales(he was just muscled out of the game) and Finnan and gone 4-2-4 or even 3 -3 -4 with Rise moving up to left midfield.

Imo this game was crying out for Fowler but he wasn't even on the bench

by **peterc1992** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:42 pm

bringin aurelio on for gonzalez and taking bellaMY OFF I THOUGHT WAS STUPID

by **Effes** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:48 pm

Rafa started off the season by saying we wouldn't get going til November.

Enough said... it's like he knows our limitations and doesn't expect us to exceed them.

4th place here we go.

by **zarababe** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:05 pm

Bellamy was taken off due to blurred vision.

We lost cos we didn't put away the hat full of chances like we had the week before

by **neil** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:07 pm

I was worried that starting with hyppia & crouch would be a problem and it was. I get paid jacksh1t aswell.

by **A.B.** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:12 pm

neil wrote:I was worried that starting with hyppia & crouch would be a problem and it was. I get paid jacksh1t aswell.

What does Sami Hyypia have to do with our inability to take our chances when they are presented to us? He had a good game against Blackburn.

Crouch, our leading goal-scorer, should had put away his chances. As should had Bellamy but nobody is blaming Bellamy because he isn't a tall and lanky b@stard.

:sleepy:

by **dawson99** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:40 pm

No, we are not having a go at bellamy because he looks like he has passion. I admit that Crouch is a good player, but he was never brought to be a liverpool starter in my opinion. When Kuyt came on we had that added zip to us.
Crouch just slows play down, which worked brilliantly for us when our confidence was low, but now we have quickened our game we dont need the hold up boy as much, espcially when he misses chance after chance (and no, i wasnt saying that when he was scoring, blah blah blah, but our style has changed since then)

by **Graeme Noble** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:18 am

dawson99 wrote:No, we are not having a go at bellamy because he looks like he has passion. I admit that Crouch is a good player, but he was never brought to be a liverpool starter in my opinion. When Kuyt came on we had that added zip to us.
Crouch just slows play down, which worked brilliantly for us when our confidence was low, but now we have quickened our game we dont need the hold up boy as much, espcially when he misses chance after chance (and no, i wasnt saying that when he was scoring, blah blah blah, but our style has changed since then)

I totally agree.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:41 am

Right - synopsis:

System employed: We dominated from start to finish despite being away from home. Created many chances, while limiting them to 1. Verdict: Good call Rafa.

Personelle employed: See above, with the exception of Crouch who missed more opportunities than an impotent man at a hen party.

Verdict: It was the right lineup. Rafa can't be blamed if the players aren't hitting the net.

Subs: Aurelio - who offers set-piece threat and the only genuine left-footer on the bench. (Gonzalez was sh*gged.)

Kuyt - the obvious choice.

Garcia - Mr Spectacular. Replaced Bellamy who was injured.

What's the problem?

by **red37** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:32 am

Tough away fixture, always was going to be, it usually is. Id be inclined to say little more than a bad day at the office, with perhaps a dash of 'over-consumption' from the day before.... At the end of the day, yes -the players are professional footballers, but equally they are human beings, several with young families as well (believe it or not that sentiment includes and extends to the rest of the rogues gallery throughout the Prem and beyond) And yes, its true there should be no excuses for failing to convert so many clear cut chances. But in countering that arguement, you have to seriously question the validity of asking 110% from a playing staff (many of whom will feature consecutively) 4 times in the space of little over a weeks football (despite the girth of the modern day squad). No wonder there will be breaking points along the way. Im expecting more of the same tbh before some equilibrium is restored....Probably after we've been dumped out of one of the cups too id expect. Its not on - there has to be some compromise made over the arrangements for the Christmas period. To me, tradition aside - The frequency of these games is such that, no chance is given for any recouperative benefits to be reaped through injury; or the compensatory effects of rest, let alone any meaningful work on the training ground. And the consequences of that are being felt significantly year on year...not just for Liverpool but the entire British game. (and you wonder why Germany 06 was a complete flop for the national side). Quite simply, the players are knackered from January onwards.... For me I'd scrap 2 of the festive fixtures ...do away with the farcical Winter transfer window...drop at least 4 of these woeful, trivial international get togethers and get in line with the greater majority of the continent - and introduce a meaningful winter recess. Doesn't have to be weeks, just 'some' time for regrouping and collecting of the energy required for the remaining second half of what is already, a long and tortuous season, made increasingly worse so by the encroachment and global 'pull' of the television companies, who seem to control and dictate everything football related these days...Sure there's a market to feed, an entertainment industry to satisfy...but equally there is plenty of scope for some of the incredulous 'pressure' so many clubs are faced with to be released by plain and simple basic common-sense and the consideration of the players welfare. No matter what they are or are not paid.

by **A.B.** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:34 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Right - synopsis:

System employed: We dominated from start to finish despite being away from home. Created many chances, while limiting them to 1. Verdict: Good call Rafa.

Personelle employed: See above, with the exception of Crouch who missed more opportunities than an impotent man at a hen party.

Verdict: It was the right lineup. Rafa can't be blamed if the players aren't hitting the net.

Subs: Aurelio - who offers set-piece threat and the only genuine left-footer on the bench. (Gonzalez was sh*gged.)

Kuyt - the obvious choice.

Garcia - Mr Spectacular. Replaced Bellamy who was injured.

What's the problem?

The problem is that we lost and when we lose people need a scapegoat.

It's either:

A. Rafa
B. Rotation
C. Zonal Marking System [or it used to be]
D. One of the players
E. Rick Parry
F. David Moores
G. Lack of money
H. Horrible away kit
I. The turd on the entrance to the stadium

I'm getting tired of reading the same bullocks every time we lose. When we're winning, everything is rosy and we're going to win the league. When we lose, we won't finish in the top four.

When we win, it was a team effort [i.e. v Watford] when we lose like we did yesterday it's because of one player [Crouch,Hyypia,Riise,Garcia,Pennant,etc.. the usual scapegoats]

Football is a team game, you win as a team and you lose as a team. Crouch missed his chances as did Bellamy, but you can't blame them for losing the game because they didn't concede the goal our back four did.

Had Crouch been playing at another club we would be having threads ''Sign Crouch,he's English'' just like we had with Bent,Defoe,etc...

Then you have posters who doubt the quality of certain players [Alonso for instance]. Is he did that good? Yes he's that damn good and people take it for granted. If he was playing for Barca we would have orgasms about his footballing ability all over the place.

''Sign him up Rafa'' just like we are now with the flavors of the month in: Micah Richards, Baines, Bale.

I'm not saying they're not good players but just because you go on Football Manager and sign them and they do the job, doesn't mean that you're a certified UEFA manager and that Rafa and the rest of us have to listen to your bullocks.

That is the problem. Everyone knows everything and the MANAGER who actually works his bullocks off and has an impressive track record "NEEDS TO F#CK off to Spain " is the response you get from people when we lose. Just look at the BBC boards.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:39 am

A.B. wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Right - synopsis:

System employed: We dominated from start to finish despite being away from home. Created many chances, while limiting them to 1. Verdict: Good call Rafa.

Personelle employed: See above, with the exception of Crouch who missed more opportunities than an impotent man at a hen party.

Verdict: It was the right lineup. Rafa can't be blamed if the players aren't hitting the net.

Subs: Aurelio - who offers set-piece threat and the only genuine left-footer on the bench. (Gonzalez was sh*gged.)

Kuyt - the obvious choice.

Garcia - Mr Spectacular. Replaced Bellamy who was injured.

What's the problem?

The problem is that we lost and when we lose people need a scapegoat.

It's either:

A. Rafa
B. Rotation
C. Zonal Marking System [or it used to be]
D. One of the players
E. Rick Parry
F. David Moores
G. Lack of money
H. Horrible away kit
I. The turd on the entrance to the stadium

I'm getting tired of reading the same bullocks every time we lose. When we're winning, everything is rosy and we're going to win the league. When we lose, we won't finish in the top four.

When we win, it was a team effort [i.e. v Watford] when we lose like we did yesterday it's because of one player [Crouch,Hyypia,Riise,Garcia,Pennant,etc.. the usual scapegoats]

Football is a team game, you win as a team and you lose as a team. Crouch missed his chances as did Bellamy, but you can't blame them for losing the game because they didn't concede the goal our back four did.

Had Crouch been playing at another club we would be having threads ''Sign Crouch,he's English'' just like we had with Bent,Defoe,etc...

Then you have posters who doubt the quality of certain players [Alonso for instance]. Is he did that good? Yes he's that damn good and people take it for granted. If he was playing for Barca we would have orgasms about his footballing ability all over the place.

''Sign him up Rafa'' just like we are now with the flavors of the month in: Micah Richards, Baines, Bale.

I'm not saying they're not good players but just because you go on Football Manager and sign them and they do the job, doesn't mean that you're a certified UEFA manager and that Rafa and the rest of us have to listen to your bullocks.

That is the problem. Everyone knows everything and the MANAGER who actually works his bullocks off and has an impressive track record "NEEDS TO F#CK off to Spain " is the response you get from people when we lose. Just look at the BBC boards.

Got to agree mate.

It's bad enough that we lose - I don't want to have to listen to a bunch of gimps bleating that Rafa should go, so and so should be sold, we will get relegated, etc, etc, etc.

People seem to forget what that man (Rafa) has done for us.

People need a good slapping.

by **A.B.** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:41 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
A.B. wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Right - synopsis:

System employed: We dominated from start to finish despite being away from home. Created many chances, while limiting them to 1. Verdict: Good call Rafa.

Personelle employed: See above, with the exception of Crouch who missed more opportunities than an impotent man at a hen party.

Verdict: It was the right lineup. Rafa can't be blamed if the players aren't hitting the net.

Subs: Aurelio - who offers set-piece threat and the only genuine left-footer on the bench. (Gonzalez was sh*gged.)

Kuyt - the obvious choice.

Garcia - Mr Spectacular. Replaced Bellamy who was injured.

What's the problem?

The problem is that we lost and when we lose people need a scapegoat.

It's either:

A. Rafa
B. Rotation
C. Zonal Marking System [or it used to be]
D. One of the players
E. Rick Parry
F. David Moores
G. Lack of money
H. Horrible away kit
I. The turd on the entrance to the stadium

I'm getting tired of reading the same bullocks every time we lose. When we're winning, everything is rosy and we're going to win the league. When we lose, we won't finish in the top four.

When we win, it was a team effort [i.e. v Watford] when we lose like we did yesterday it's because of one player [Crouch,Hyypia,Riise,Garcia,Pennant,etc.. the usual scapegoats]

Football is a team game, you win as a team and you lose as a team. Crouch missed his chances as did Bellamy, but you can't blame them for losing the game because they didn't concede the goal our back four did.

Had Crouch been playing at another club we would be having threads ''Sign Crouch,he's English'' just like we had with Bent,Defoe,etc...

Then you have posters who doubt the quality of certain players [Alonso for instance]. Is he did that good? Yes he's that damn good and people take it for granted. If he was playing for Barca we would have orgasms about his footballing ability all over the place.

''Sign him up Rafa'' just like we are now with the flavors of the month in: Micah Richards, Baines, Bale.

I'm not saying they're not good players but just because you go on Football Manager and sign them and they do the job, doesn't mean that you're a certified UEFA manager and that Rafa and the rest of us have to listen to your bullocks.

That is the problem. Everyone knows everything and the MANAGER who actually works his bullocks off and has an impressive track record "NEEDS TO F#CK off to Spain " is the response you get from people when we lose. Just look at the BBC boards.

Got to agree mate.

It's bad enough that we lose - I don't want to have to listen to a bunch of gimps bleating that Rafa should go, so and so should be sold, we will get relegated, etc, etc, etc.

People seem to forget what that man (Rafa) has done for us.

People need a good slapping.

Not just our fans but football fans in general.

Like some opposing turd of a fan who said on the beeb that the only quality we have in the team is Alonso and Gerrard. I wanted to strangle the clueless tw@t.

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