Liverpool FC Forum

by **tubby** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:56 pm

Anfield rapper wrote:I think you'll find that RA has bought Chelsea for £60m odd, but hasn't put a penny into the club. All he has done is act as collateral for all these big deals which Chelsea have borrowed the money for. This is why they have reported massive losses every year he has been the owner. He is gambling that in the future Chelsea will be a profitable club. This is fair enough so long as teams like us the mancs and arsenal (not to mention Real, Barcelona, AC Milan etc) all stand still. In 5 or 6 years if Chelsea aren't making a profit it's time to start worrying if your a Chelsea fan cause RA might just get tired of his play thing.

This is a good point and a point that all clubs who agree to outside investment should bear in mind. Imagine what a state all the top clubs could be in if that happend. The clubs could not afford to pay the players and the teams would deteriorate.

But the possibilities of bigger stadiums and more money for better players who can win things and generate revenue is just too much to turn down.

This is my only fear of this investment plan but is a risk I think the club has to take if it wants to keep up with the other clubs.

by **maximus** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:11 pm

BREAKING NEWS......................Another famous horse owner to buy the bitters?

Link

by **red37** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:33 pm

wise words from the King...about the 'Boss man' and the 'Sheikh'

Trust Moores, urges DalglishDec 7 2006

By John Thompson, Liverpool Echo

REDS legend Kenny Dalglish today threw his weight behind the proposed Anfield takeover by Dubai and urged supporters to trust Liverpool chairman David Moores on the issue.

Dalglish conceded many fans would be seeking reassurances with the Dubai government's investment company Dubai Investment Capital behind a possible £400m plus investment package which could soon end the tradition of local ownership.

Said Dalglish, the last manager to bring the title to Anfield in 1990: "Fans will be seeking a wee bit of comfort at the moment.

"But I believe they can rest assured that David Moores would not be selling it to anyone unless he was absolutely convinced they were the right sort of people and it was the right thing to do.

"He will be acting in the best interests of Liverpool Football Club - not himself. You can be sure of that.

"I have said before that he has been a brilliant chairman for the club and as far as I'm concerned the supporters can trust his judgement on this.

"He has supported all of the managers he has had and put his hand in his pocket to provide them with the money for players they wanted.

"But because he is quiet and doesn't seek the limelight, he doesn't get the plaudits he deserves."

DIC lawyers are currently examining Liverpool's books with a view to formalising an offer - provided no problems arise in the next few weeks.

Moores, who holds a 51% controlling interest at Anfield and has been Liverpool's chairman for the past 16 years, may stay on in an honorary role, with chief executive Rick Parry continuing in his role to ensure stability.

Dalglish added: "I think it is really important for anyone coming in that David Moores and Rick Parry would be staying there to provide that stability.

"If Rick Parry, like the chairman, thinks this is the right deal then it will be right.

"Obviously the club needs funds for a new stadium and this would provide the funds for it.

"The new owners will also know that Liverpool have a great man at the helm in Rafa Benitez.

"They will be buying a great club - one which is ready made to be taken forward smoothly."

by **The Manhattan Project** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:39 am

Van Nistelrooy is Goldolphin owned isn't he?

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:23 am

Reg wrote:Due dilligence allows the interested party to analyse the books and calculate the value of the company and only then they'll sit round the table. Two weeks....? Already done...? Three months I'd say.

Read today that the Mad Russian has pumped 450 million quid into Chelski. That got me thinking, he only paid a pound for the club plus debt . So most of that mnoney's been spent on players, facilities, more players then more players.

Our A-rab is gonna pay close to the same without Benitez seeing a penny. A stadium we should have been able to finance ourselves plus paying off Moores and the debt. From 450-475 Rafa dont dont nothing.

So......... who's got the bum deal now. At least Chelski are 450 down but the best team in europe.

Abramovich paid £60million for Chelsea plus debt of £80million = £140million. It was Ken Bates that bought Chelsea for £1 (they are worth even less now!) For all his money Abramovich doesnt own Chelsea's ground and cant even move to a new stadium without changing Chelsea's name. The ground and the name Chelsea are both owned by "Chelsea Pitch owners" not by Abramovich.

Chelsea were, at the nadir of their fortunes, acquired by businessman Ken Bates for the sum of £1, and Bates proved to be a real fighter as the new Chairman, although his opponents included supporters (who did not take kindly to his suggestion of electrified fences to keep them off the pitch) as well as the property developers who now owned the freehold. On the pitch, the team had fared little better, finishing 18th in the Second Division in 1982–83

ps Chelsea have never been the best team in Europe . Liverpool have 5 times.

by **Reg** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:38 am

bavlondon wrote:
Reg wrote:Due dilligence allows the interested party to analyse the books and calculate the value of the company and only then they'll sit round the table. Two weeks....? Already done...? Three months I'd say.

Read today that the Mad Russian has pumped 450 million quid into Chelski. That got me thinking, he only paid a pound for the club plus debt. So most of that mnoney's been spent on players, facilities, more players then more players.

Our A-rab is gonna pay close to the same without Benitez seeing a penny. A stadium we should have been able to finance ourselves plus paying off Moores and the debt. From 450-475 Rafa dont dont nothing.

So......... who's got the bum deal now. At least Chelski are 450 down but the best team in europe.

How do you figure that one out reg?

Abramoviches personal fortune doesent even come close to the guys wealth. True we probabaly wont go spending vast sums of money like your team has but we dont need to.

You crack me up reg.

Go back to your Chelsea forum knob.head.

And as for bum deals at the end of the day Chelseas money is out of Romans pocket so im sure hes expecting some sort of return ie: European Cup as thats where the big money is.
I remember Peter Kenyon saying they the club would break even by 2008 but i can only see them going more in the red as far as the books are concerned.

It cracks me up how sensitive you lot are, mention another team and the huffing and puffing starts, chins jutting out. Cant a person throw a comment in without expecting abuse? Are you do emotionally challenged that you have to react this way?Its like a school yard full of 13 year olds all trying to act rock'ard.
:sleep

by **Reg** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:42 am

Anfield rapper wrote:I think you'll find that RA has bought Chelsea for £60m odd, but hasn't put a penny into the club. All he has done is act as collateral for all these big deals which Chelsea have borrowed the money for. This is why they have reported massive losses every year he has been the owner. He is gambling that in the future Chelsea will be a profitable club. This is fair enough so long as teams like us the mancs and arsenal (not to mention Real, Barcelona, AC Milan etc) all stand still. In 5 or 6 years if Chelsea aren't making a profit it's time to start worrying if your a Chelsea fan cause RA might just get tired of his play thing.

He didnt put the cash in as collateral, as the club doesnt have a penny of debt - so therefore it wasnt a loan etc.. but a simple cash payment. Nice position for Chelski to be in!

The recent comment from Kenyon that they need a bigger stadium is the key and I guess always has been - sell the prime realestate and buy out of town. Wants the land worth in that part of town???

by **Reg** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:49 am

s@int wrote:
Reg wrote:Due dilligence allows the interested party to analyse the books and calculate the value of the company and only then they'll sit round the table. Two weeks....? Already done...? Three months I'd say.

Read today that the Mad Russian has pumped 450 million quid into Chelski. That got me thinking, he only paid a pound for the club plus debt . So most of that mnoney's been spent on players, facilities, more players then more players.

Our A-rab is gonna pay close to the same without Benitez seeing a penny. A stadium we should have been able to finance ourselves plus paying off Moores and the debt. From 450-475 Rafa dont dont nothing.

So......... who's got the bum deal now. At least Chelski are 450 down but the best team in europe.

Abramovich paid £60million for Chelsea plus debt of £80million = £140million. It was Ken Bates that bought Chelsea for £1 (they are worth even less now!) For all his money Abramovich doesnt own Chelsea's ground and cant even move to a new stadium without changing Chelsea's name. The ground and the name Chelsea are both owned by "Chelsea Pitch owners" not by Abramovich.

Chelsea were, at the nadir of their fortunes, acquired by businessman Ken Bates for the sum of £1, and Bates proved to be a real fighter as the new Chairman, although his opponents included supporters (who did not take kindly to his suggestion of electrified fences to keep them off the pitch) as well as the property developers who now owned the freehold. On the pitch, the team had fared little better, finishing 18th in the Second Division in 1982–83

ps Chelsea have never been the best team in Europe . Liverpool have 5 times.

Interesting thoughts, thanks.

If Chelsea Pitches own the name and the stadium, then what did RA buy? What entity has RA been pumping his money into and which one has been making the losses? Guess we have to establish the structure before we work out the motive to spend so much $$

Hey, the comment about Chelsea being best was made to focus minds on the players they have bought, some of which are superb (jeez if only we had Drogba...) not actually to suggest they're capable of winning the CL or starting a dynesty of winning sides..... :talktothehand

by **EddieC** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:23 pm

Reg wrote:(jeez if only we had Drogba...)

Please tell me you're joking.

Ok, he might have a good goals return this season, but personally I'd never want a player like him in our team. Always rolling about on the floor, failing to grasp the concept that you're not allowed to handle the ball & running the length of the pitch to argue a foul-throw or something just as silly with the ref.

Sh!tski are welcome to him.

by **Anfield rapper** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:52 pm

Wow Reg, your very quick to jump to Chelski's defence.

by **zarababe** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:53 pm

From the telegraph:

Is Anfield's sheikh a match for Abramovich?
By Neil Tweedie
Last Updated: 1:42am GMT 06/12/2006

When Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum wants something, he usually gets it. Driving ambition, control of the most dynamic emirate in the Persian Gulf and an enormous family fortune see to that.

So when it was announced this week that Dubai International Capital, a company controlled by his family, was willing to pay £450 million for a controlling interest in Liverpool FC, it looked like a done deal.

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum
Soon, English soccer will have a new billionaire on the block, and the inheritors of Bill Shankly will have a new boss - a horse-obsessed Arab prince with a liking for poetry whose energy has helped turn a strip of desert into a 21st century city state complete with two new palm tree-shaped islands.

For the fans who cram Anfield's Kop the result is likely to be a new stadium occupied by a far more powerful soccer machine, endowed with enough money to go head-to-head in the transfer market with Roman Abramovich's Chelsea.

But it also marks another step towards the commercialisation and internationalisation of the Premiership, and another step away from truly local football and traditional ''boot room" management.

The Maktoum-Abramovich contest is being talked up in the sports pages even before it has begun - the Arab of royal blood born into wealth versus the poor Russian orphan made good. They do, however, have certain features in common: an eye for the main chance, the desire to be best, not least in sport, and billions founded in oil or its spin-offs.

Roman Abramovich
Sheikh Mohammed is best-known in Britain for his huge influence in horse racing. An obsessive collector of bloodstock, he and his late brother assembled some 3,000 horses, including those at the Godolphin stables, the powerhouse of British racing. He himself is a keen rider, taking part in ultra-long-distance events.

Mohammed succeeded to the throne of Dubai following the death of his elder brother, Sheikh Maktoum, earlier this year. In addition, he is prime minister and vice-president of the United Arab Emirates, the collection of Gulf sheikhdoms of which Dubai is one. With the UAE's oil due to run out in the next few decades, the Maktoums concentrated on turning their tiny land into the commercial hub of the Gulf. Oil now accounts for only about eight per cent of Dubai's output, with the rest coming from trade, financial services, tourism and construction.

The explosion in building has produced theme parks, malls and hotels — including what is claimed to be the world's only seven-star hotel, the Burj Al Arab, commanding nightly rates of up to £5,000.

The Maktoums' fortune is entwined with Dubai's economy — the sheikhdom resembling a big corporation more than a state. That makes estimates about their wealth difficult, but the three surviving brothers are thought to be worth £7 billion at least.

advertisementSheikh Mohammed and his brothers are unlikely to lose on their investment. Television deals being negotiated now are expected to produce a 60 per cent increase in turnover for Premiership clubs over the next few years.

English football is more popular across the world than ever - except, of course, that it's not really English any more.

by **zarababe** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:54 pm

And again.. more twist to follow ? perhaps ..

Liverpool in two-way battle over takeover
By Mihir Bose
Last Updated: 1:01am GMT 08/12/2006

Your View: Football fans' forum

Although the question of who will be the next owner of Liverpool football club is still to be answered. It is understood that George Gillett, the American who owns the NHL ice hockey team the Montreal Canadians, has not given up hope of taking control of the Merseyside club.

Last Friday, David Moores, chairman of Liverpool, indicated that he would sell the club to Dubai International Capital group (DIC), the investment company owned by Crown Prince Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum.

Moores' reason for preferring the Middle Eastern option rather than the American, was that he felt DIC would have deeper pockets and offer Liverpool the resources to match Roman Abramovich's Chelsea.

It is understood that there is virtually no price differential between the two bidders, both valuing the shares of Liverpool Football Club at around £160 million, willing to cover debts which are around £50 million and invest another £250 million in the new stadium that the club is building and for which money is desperately required. In addition, there would be some money for investment in players making a total of around £450 million.

advertisementHowever, despite the riches of Al-Maktoum, the Dubai company is in the habit of investing in assets and then selling them on, usually at a profit. DIC's chief executive, Sameer al-Ansari, despite being a Liverpool fan, is unlikely to be another Abramovich.

Gillett, having been alerted to the riches of the Premiership by fellow Americans Malcolm Glazer and Randy Lerner, who bought Manchester United and Aston Villa respectively, will argue that he has the experience of making sporting investments and running clubs.

At the moment DIC are in no position to complete the takeover of Liverpool, who have been seeking a buyer for more than two years. In the meantime, Gillett is determined not to give up and the next few days could see a scramble to win over Moores. The Liverpool chairman has said DIC is his preferred buyer, but Gillett is still in the hunt.

by **stmichael** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:54 pm

zarababe wrote:English football is more popular across the world than ever - except, of course, that it's not really English any more.

wouldn't surprise me if every premiership club is foreign owned in 10 years time.

by **zarababe** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:58 pm

stmichael wrote:
zarababe wrote:English football is more popular across the world than ever - except, of course, that it's not really English any more.

wouldn't surprise me if every premiership club is foreign owned in 10 years time.

and on cue Saint, this also in the Telegraph.. they cometh from the Red Sea too ..

Agent leads next phase of football's foreign invasion
By David Bond
Last Updated: 1:00am GMT 08/12/2006

The Zahavi files

Pini Zahavi, the Israeli agent who has built a reputation as football's master deal maker, is working secretly to raise up to £100 million from a group of investors to buy a leading English football club.

In the week when Dubai International Capital, the investment arm of the oil-rich state's royal family, announced they were considering a £450 million bid for Liverpool, Inside Sport has learnt of a new project which could see another of our top clubs eventually change hands.

For the past few months Zahavi has been talking to leading banks and brokers in the City of London about the possibility of raising cash through a stock-market flotation of a shell vehicle to be called the Football Acquisition Company.

David Davies, the former Football Association executive director, who left the governing body in September, has been sounded out about being involved in Zahavi's proposal, while Graeme Souness, the former Newcastle and Liverpool manager who is an old friend of Zahavi's, has been considered as a possible chairman of the football club.

advertisementAlthough it appears to be some way off from fruition, Zahavi's latest scheme comes at a time when there is growing concern about the ownership of clubs and the role of agents in football. The game's authorities remain alarmed by the potential conflict of interest in having an agent who makes money from buying and selling players so closely linked to a handful of Premiership club owners.

The influence of the 51-year-old former sports journalist is felt at all levels of the game. As well as being the agent to top footballers such as Rio Ferdinand, the Manchester United and England defender, he was the go-between in Roman Abramovich's £140 million takeover of Chelsea and Alexandre Gaydamak's purchase of Portsmouth.

More recently he was involved in trying to help Kia Joorabchian, the Anglo-Iranian businessman, to acquire West Ham and is a consultant to the HERO football fund, an investment scheme set up to buy stakes in players.

Zahavi's initial plan was to raise between £70 million and £100 million through an initial public offering (IPO). The money from the float would then be used to buy one of the smaller teams at the bottom end of the Premiership, or at the top of the Coca Cola Championship.

Despite the recent trend to de-list football clubs from the market – as seen by Manchester United and Chelsea – shares in the newly owned team could be traded either on the main London exchange or on one of the smaller markets. That would enable the club to raise more funds for investment in team building or ground redevelopment by further share issues, or placings.

Zahavi has held preliminary talks with leading figures from the game about running the new club. Davies has been questioned about the role of chairman of the holding company board, with Souness considered for taking on the day-to-day management of the football side of the business.

The Israeli has approached a number of brokers about becoming the nominated adviser to the project, including the Belgian-owned KBC Peel Hunt, a corporate finance company which specialises in advising small and medium-sized businesses. But a spokeswoman for KBC Peel Hunt told Inside Sport that, while there had been some contact over the project, they were definitely not involved.

She said: "There was minimal contact. They spoke to KBC, but in a scheme like this you would expect them to speak to 15-20 brokers like us."

Having struggled to drum up enthusiasm in the City for an IPO, Zahavi is now believed to be working on raising the money for his takeover project through a private placing. This would work in much the same way, but would not require the club to float on the stock market.

Instead, a large group of investors would put up between £3 million and £5 million for a stake in the club's parent company.

Given the way that the stock market has turned its back on football clubs in the past few years, following the initial rush to float in the 1990s, the original IPO plan was always likely to struggle to win support.

Yet one City insider provided a possible explanation for the enthusiasm to raise money in this way. "By floating, it means other people are taking small lumps of risk in the project," he said. "Plus, it gives it the veneer of transparency."

The possible involvement of Davies is also a surprise, but would, again, add credibility. After almost 13 years at the FA, the 58-year-old is now working as a consultant to the head-hunters KMC International and the law firm Wiggin LLP. He is also planning to write a book about his time at the FA.

However, in addition, Davies is interested in acquiring a football team, which could then be transformed into the first genuine community club. His vision would involve not only attracting local investors, but also include a policy that, in the long run, only locally produced players and coaching staff could play for and manage the team.

Davies confirmed to Inside Sport that he had held a brief and preliminary discussion with an intermediary about getting involved with the Football Acquisition Company, but that it had gone no further than that.

It is understood that Zahavi's role in the Football Acquisition Company would be only as an adviser, and he would have no executive position.

He maintains that his work as the go-between in multimillion-pound club takeovers has brought fresh investment to teams that would otherwise have faced financial meltdown.

The Zahavi files

Age: 51

Born: Nes Ziona, near Tel Aviv, Israel.

Biggest deals: As agent to Manchester United and England defender Rio Ferdinand, Zahavi brokered his then record £29.3m transfer from Leeds United to Old Trafford.

Helped initiate Roman Abramovich's £140m takeover of Chelsea and Alexandre Gaydamak's buyout of Portsmouth.

Powerful friends: The master networker, he counts as close friends rich and diverse power brokers such as the High Street supremo Philip Green, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, and Manchester United's boss Sir Alex Ferguson.

Controversies: Took Sven-Goran Eriksson for tea with Abramovich while he was England manager, plus helped to set up the meeting between Chelsea and Ashley Cole which resulted in the tapping-up scandal.

-----------------------------------------------

Man City also announced foriegn interest for a buy out !

by **Judge** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:25 pm

stmichael wrote:
zarababe wrote:English football is more popular across the world than ever - except, of course, that it's not really English any more.

wouldn't surprise me if every premiership club is foreign owned in 10 years time.

globalisation :angry:

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