Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:59 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:No.

Pennant has not improved at all. He was bad last night again and a lot of the fans were making their views on him public for the first time. His passing was awful and he did not look at ease at all. He has all the assets to be a good player for us but he is not doing it at the moment.

I don't think Pennant will ever be a great player for us. He looks too scared to play with the likes of Gerrard, Xabi and Carra. He is the proverbial small fish in the big pond now and he needs to show more confidence and be willing to try things.

He is not impressing me at all.

Interesting to read your perspective, RD, given that:

1) You are generally quite positive in your assessments of the lads

and

2) You get to a lot of games

So, when you suggest that Pennant has not been up to it, I take some notice. To me, watching the PSV game on the telly (okay, the laptop), it seemed like Pennant put in a better shift than he did at Boro last weekend. But, I well recognize that off the ball stuff does not come across at all on the tube and, thus, going the game gives a much different perspective. So, I'm curious if you traveled to Boro last weekend and, if you did, whether you think Pennant truly was as bad on Wednesday as he was last Saturday (now that you've had a couple of days to reflect)?

by **WhIpLaSh** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:17 pm

Perhaps Pennant needs to realise (and soon) that he is now playing for a powerhouse team. Where mediocrity was acceptable at the likes of Birmingham, it just doesn't cut it at LFC.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for NOW, but his performances in his next few games will dictate whether he wants it bad enough.

I truly believe the ability is there, he seriously needs to get his head right though. Big team, big games, big players - make or break.

by **Scottbot** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:38 pm

WhIpLaSh wrote:Perhaps Pennant needs to realise (and soon) that he is now playing for a powerhouse team. Where mediocrity was acceptable at the likes of Birmingham, it just doesn't cut it at LFC.

I think he probably realises this fact all too much and is no doubt placing more pressure on himself to perform than any of us. He needed to get off to a good start with Lfc, it hasn't really happened and now the pressure is on. I don't think he has become a bad player, i believe he is technically good enough to play for this club and the couple of occasions of have seen him live this season confirmed that for me (i think he has an excellent first touch) but i would love to see him running at the byline and taking players on. He needs games and he will get them now with virtually the entire midfield in the treatment room.

by **WhIpLaSh** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:41 pm

Fair comment.

I hope he just comes right soon. He has so much to offer and it's really frustrating watch him under-perform for us when we know what he is capable of.

Like I said, benefit of the doubt. He could be a great.

by **Rafa D** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:47 pm

I did not travel to Middlesborough Bad Bob as I had no A/L days left in work :down:

However I did go to Birmingham in the Carling Cup where Pennant started on the right against his old club. Against Birmingham he was awful, I remember at least 3 times he failed to pass the ball 10 yards. Not good enough for us. Liverpool play possession football and having him on the pitch is a liability when he cannot make simple short passes. Birmingham away was his worst performance I have seen from him live, he was full of mistakes. Birmingham fans after the game were saying he was very indifferent at Birmingham and they were glad to get the money for him.

The games I have seen Pennant in he has not done much to impress me. The first leg against Maccabi Haifa raised my concerns when he seemed to struggle against a very average team. He seems to have all the attributes, pace, crossing etc to make a good winger but he never seems to utilise them at the right time. Another game I vividly remember him having a bad game was Bolton, the whole team was bad that day but his passing again was awful.

I won't boo him or heckle him at the game, like many where doing but I won't defend him when he has played as badly as he has. He has been the worst underperformer out of all the new signings. He seems scared on the field and I don't know whether thats him, the boss or the occasion but he needs to raise his game and believe in himself. He said in a program at the start of the season Rafa wants 15 goals from him - he will never get 15 goals for Liverpool Football Club at this rate.

He made a good run down the right against PSV and took the :censored:

out of 2 of their players and delivered a good ball into the box. It was at the start of the game and I thought Aye aye, Pennant might turn it on tonight. But he didn't . He did get moved over the left hand side a few times as well so he can use that as a excuse.

Some fella behind me was being a tit, and I actually defended Pennant. He was moaning when Pennant was on the left to "stop cutting in, you bellend" etc and I did point out the fact he is a right winger!!

I may have been a bit hard of the lad for the PSV game but it is just the frustration boiling over. I re- watched the match today in fact and when Gerrrard scores, Pennant follows the lads but when they start celebrating he looks down at the floor, like he is disapointed in himself.

He was not as bad against PSV, in fact it may of been his best game but is that what we expect from him? Not me.

It might be he is short of confidence,maybe he knows he cannot hack it here, maybe he thinks he cannot hack it here, but all he needs to try harder.

Anfield loves a tryer, thats all we can ask from the lads, try your best for the famous red shirt and at the moment, Pennant is not trying hard enough

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:27 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:I did not travel to Middlesborough Bad Bob as I had no A/L days left in work

However I did go to Birmingham in the Carling Cup where Pennant started on the right against his old club. Against Birmingham he was awful, I remember at least 3 times he failed to pass the ball 10 yards. Not good enough for us. Liverpool play possession football and having him on the pitch is a liability when he cannot make simple short passes. Birmingham away was his worst performance I have seen from him live, he was full of mistakes. Birmingham fans after the game were saying he was very indifferent at Birmingham and they were glad to get the money for him.

The games I have seen Pennant in he has not done much to impress me. The first leg against Maccabi Haifa raised my concerns when he seemed to struggle against a very average team. He seems to have all the attributes, pace, crossing etc to make a good winger but he never seems to utilise them at the right time. Another game I vividly remember him having a bad game was Bolton, the whole team was bad that day but his passing again was awful.

I won't boo him or heckle him at the game, like many where doing but I won't defend him when he has played as badly as he has. He has been the worst underperformer out of all the new signings. He seems scared on the field and I don't know whether thats him, the boss or the occasion but he needs to raise his game and believe in himself. He said in a program at the start of the season Rafa wants 15 goals from him - he will never get 15 goals for Liverpool Football Club at this rate.

He made a good run down the right against PSV and took the out of 2 of their players and delivered a good ball into the box. It was at the start of the game and I thought Aye aye, Pennant might turn it on tonight. But he didn't . He did get moved over the left hand side a few times as well so he can use that as a excuse.

Some fella behind me was being a tit, and I actually defended Pennant. He was moaning when Pennant was on the left to "stop cutting in, you bellend" etc and I did point out the fact he is a right winger!!

I may have been a bit hard of the lad for the PSV game but it is just the frustration boiling over. I re- watched the match today in fact and when Gerrrard scores, Pennant follows the lads but when they start celebrating he looks down at the floor, like he is disapointed in himself.

He was not as bad against PSV, in fact it may of been his best game but is that what we expect from him? Not me.

It might be he is short of confidence,maybe he knows he cannot hack it here, maybe he thinks he cannot hack it here, but all he needs to try harder.

Anfield loves a tryer, thats all we can ask from the lads, try your best for the famous red shirt and at the moment, Pennant is not trying hard enough

Good post, mate. It's always nice to hear how a player's doing from those watching in the stands. Sounds like what I've been thinking as well--he's got the tools but he's not using them well. Take pace...he has it but you rarely see him use it to accelerate past a man (nor, it must be said, to track back enough and help Finnan when the opposition counters). He's got some nice skills in tight spaces, too--as you point out with the moment early in the PSV game--but sometimes it seems like he doesn't have the confidence needed to take his man on.

I know that lack of confidence can look like indifference so I don't want to slate the lad too much for some of his body language. But, at some point, you need to just get your head down and put the work in. Look at Kuyt--he'll lose possession or miss some decent chances like all strikers do but he never seems to let it shake his work ethic. He got crowded off the ball at least a dozen times by Alex in the first 55 minutes the other night. But, when the moment came, he still had the guts to try it again and look what happened--he turns him neatly and lays it off deftly into Gerrard's path. Pennant needs more of that kind of persistence--keep showing for the ball, son, and taking your man on. You may not get any joy until late in the game but if you keep trying it may just come off at a vital moment.

by **WhIpLaSh** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:59 am

It's for this very reason that it annoys the :censored:

out of me that I'm on the other side of the world. You can never get the real 'feel' for a game when you're not there.

Watching on the telly is great and all but you miss all the graft that players put in off the ball.

During the PSV game I said that Kuyt was taking way too long on the ball, but I miss out on his runs off the ball and his tracking back because the cameras are obviously tracking the ball. When the lads got back from the game, they had nothing but positive things to say about Kuyt's work eithic during the game. That was lost on me watching the game on the box

Bad Bob, you make a great point that every player needs to at some point just put their head down and graft for their team. It's not always about goals or great crosses, it's the little things too that make a player invaluable to the team.

Getting back on topic re: Pennant - it's time for him to put the hard yards in. He knows he is under pressure, but it's a confidence game - by doing the simple things properly, the match-winning things will come in time.

He has loads to offer, I just can't wait to see him pay Rafa back for the opportunity. I feel Rafa will keep giving him the chances, but he has to come good sooner rather than later. The last thing anyone wants to see is a Red getting slated by his own fans.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:16 am

People wil lthink that Pennant has imporved cus he was so woefu lat the very start.

Our kid said to me at the PSV game, "he's done well tonight", following a few good runs, to which I said "yes, indeed".

On repflection, how has a player with such a reputation and price tag done well by beating a few people, which is simply his job. It just shown how shi1e he was previously when a couple of dribbles down the line mean a decent review.

He (and Gonzalez on the left wing to be fair) could not cross a single ball against Boro the week before.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:25 am

He needs to improve a lot though. There are numerous right sided midfielders who have looked a lot more impressive this season including Lennon, Agbonlahor, James Morrison, Ronaldo and probably a few others. I'm not saying he's not as good as these guys (ok he's never going to be good as Ronaldo) but for a player who cost what he did I think we are within our right to expect a lot more.

He was good on Saturday but he still needs to do a lot of work, he's been the most disappointing of our summer acqusitions.

by **LittleHobo** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:47 am

the problem for all these players is the ego

ballack and shevchenko both have a "big fish" ego, in their last teams they were the big fish, now all of a sudden they aint and they struggle to cope with this and find their place

same with pennant and bellamy, you can see that both men have egos to maintain, pennant was good at birmingham cause he was the star, he was the big fish............now all of a sudden he aint and hes struggling to cope with this mentally and find his own place

gonzalez is diffrent, south americans rarely settle instantly, we wont see the best of gonzo till the end of this season

by **Rafa D** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:25 pm

Kept an eye on Pennant last night, just hoping he would show something to suggest improvement or a bit more effort, alas he let me down again.

The crowd and even the boss had a go at Pennant last night and in my opinion is was not soon enough. Since day one he has done nothing even averagely, he has been :censored:

poor. Last night Gerrard put him clean through on the right with yards and yards of space in front of him. I thought "go on son, prove me wrong please!" but he got the ball stuck in his feet, a player got back and he looked scared to try and take him on. Typical.

We need a quick, flying right winger and we get someone too scared to perform on the big stage. Has he got the nerves to do it? More importantly, has he got the talent?

I worry if this is a case of the latter. I ain't really took any notice of Pennant at Birmingham, he always looked ok against us but looking back, I don't remember him being much of a dribbler more of a crosser whenever he got it. I really hope Pennant comes good, we need him to, Rafa needs him to and most importantly he needs to for himself. I read a interview with Pennant were he slagged Arsenal off and said even Wayne Rooney would not of got in the team if he was a youth player there - on current form, Wenger was right, Pennant is wrong.

He needs to buck his ideas up - soon. Anfield gives every player time to settle in, but the crowd let him know exactly what they thought ofdhis inept performances yesterday and although it's harsh on a new 23 year old, it was justified. Everyone says give him time, but how much time are we going to give him? He has had more playing time than any of the new signings and he has been the most disapointing. In my opinion for what its worth, I don't think Pennant can raise his game to our level. I must seem like a broken record but his short passing game is one of the worst I have seen at this club, and his awareness on the field is no better, he doesn't seem to know where his teamates are, where the opposition are and where he is himself.

Pennant raise your game!!

by **Smeg** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:11 pm

He was fuc*ing shi*e last night.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:07 pm

LittleHobo wrote:the problem for all these players is the ego

ballack and shevchenko both have a "big fish" ego, in their last teams they were the big fish, now all of a sudden they aint and they struggle to cope with this and find their place

same with pennant and bellamy, you can see that both men have egos to maintain, pennant was good at birmingham cause he was the star, he was the big fish............now all of a sudden he aint and hes struggling to cope with this mentally and find his own place

gonzalez is diffrent, south americans rarely settle instantly, we wont see the best of gonzo till the end of this season

Shevchenko is Sh*tski's best player by a country mile.

It's Moris' managerial incompetence that is the problem.

If he is thick enough to play the best striker of a generation "his way", then that's his look out.

One things for certain - if they were similar ages, and Sh*tski DID look at selling him, I'd swap him for Gerrard in a heartbeat.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:09 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:the problem for all these players is the ego

ballack and shevchenko both have a "big fish" ego, in their last teams they were the big fish, now all of a sudden they aint and they struggle to cope with this and find their place

same with pennant and bellamy, you can see that both men have egos to maintain, pennant was good at birmingham cause he was the star, he was the big fish............now all of a sudden he aint and hes struggling to cope with this mentally and find his own place

gonzalez is diffrent, south americans rarely settle instantly, we wont see the best of gonzo till the end of this season

Shevchenko is Sh*tski's best player by a country mile.

It's Moris' managerial incompetence that is the problem.

If he is thick enough to play the best striker of a generation "his way", then that's his look out.

One things for certain - if they were similar ages, and Sh*tski DID look at selling him, I'd swap him for Gerrard in a heartbeat.

Drogba is on form and is a better striker than Shevchenko at the moment, so how he can be a Chelsea's best player by a country mile beggers belief.
you'd swap Shevchenko for Gerrard even in his prime?
Me thinks your on a wind up or just having a bubble.

by **Fowler_E7** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:17 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:the problem for all these players is the ego

ballack and shevchenko both have a "big fish" ego, in their last teams they were the big fish, now all of a sudden they aint and they struggle to cope with this and find their place

same with pennant and bellamy, you can see that both men have egos to maintain, pennant was good at birmingham cause he was the star, he was the big fish............now all of a sudden he aint and hes struggling to cope with this mentally and find his own place

gonzalez is diffrent, south americans rarely settle instantly, we wont see the best of gonzo till the end of this season

Shevchenko is Sh*tski's best player by a country mile.

It's Moris' managerial incompetence that is the problem.

If he is thick enough to play the best striker of a generation "his way", then that's his look out.

One things for certain - if they were similar ages, and Sh*tski DID look at selling him, I'd swap him for Gerrard in a heartbeat.

Drogba is on form and is a better striker than Shevchenko at the moment, so how he can be a Chelsea's best player by a country mile beggers belief.
you'd swap Shevchenko for Gerrard even in his prime?
Me thinks your on a wind up or just having a bubble.

Dont be fooled by the Shevchenco you see turning out for Chelsea every week, the guys been one the top 3 strikers in world football in the last 10 years.

He is a superb footballer, but he is playing in a team that dosnt play to any of his strengths, i have no idea why Chelsea bought him and i dont feel sorry for his current problems either as he was a fool to join Chelsea in the first place.

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