Liverpool FC Forum

by **anti-hero** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:20 pm

metalhead wrote:
anti-hero wrote:Boodiddy has a point though.

We never do seem to target big name signings.. not that there's anything wrong with Rafa's purchases but given the choice between Pennant (not knowing what I knew now) and say.. Joaquin who was linked with us prevoiusly, I know who I would have wanted.

Rafa's recent signings seem very low-key to me.. as if.. he's okay with settling for 2nd choice players and letting the other big guns snag the better known ones.

The thing is, if we do pay so much for high class players and they don't hack it into the premiership we will be in big trouble!

Joaquin is not that great if you do watch him regularly, very inconsistant player. Rafa doesn't want to make the same mistakes that Houllier did in transfers!

Fair enough.

I just get jealous sometimes.

by **KOPMATT** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:21 pm

It would be nice to have a strong 11 and even better if we could stick with them for a while, I know times have changed but not that much and stikers need to form a partnership just like Dalglish & rush did, you can't have them scoring one week then not playing together for the next 4 or so? Just doesn't make much sense that to me?

by **metalhead** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:22 pm

anti-hero wrote:
metalhead wrote:
anti-hero wrote:Boodiddy has a point though.

We never do seem to target big name signings.. not that there's anything wrong with Rafa's purchases but given the choice between Pennant (not knowing what I knew now) and say.. Joaquin who was linked with us prevoiusly, I know who I would have wanted.

Rafa's recent signings seem very low-key to me.. as if.. he's okay with settling for 2nd choice players and letting the other big guns snag the better known ones.

The thing is, if we do pay so much for high class players and they don't hack it into the premiership we will be in big trouble!

Joaquin is not that great if you do watch him regularly, very inconsistant player. Rafa doesn't want to make the same mistakes that Houllier did in transfers!

Fair enough.

I just get jealous sometimes.

I know, I feel jealous sometimes that we don't get a world class player in the team, but it is down to money! I would rather buy 3 good players for 25m rather than spending it on one big player

by **Red @ Heart** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:24 pm

coddy wrote:
Red wrote:
coddy wrote:
Red wrote:
coddy wrote:Sorry mate, your talkin bollox. Comparing Houllier and Benitez is just stupid. if you were a true fan you'd stick by the decisions that Rafa has made and live with it. we've been in worse positions over the past 15 years.

Remember Rafa wasnt allowed to sign some of the players he wanted because of cost (i.e. Simao, Joaquin and Alves).

Dont blame Rafa just blame good ol' bad luck for now.

As for Gerrard being embarrassed, he isnt exactly on form himself and definitely not the influence he was last year.

YEAH OK, LETS STICK BY RAFAS DESICION, I THINK THE WAY HE HAS HANDLED LIVERPOOL OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS HAS BEEN IMENSE, GREAT LINES UPS, GREAT TEAM SELECTIONS FÚCK ME RAFAS JUST ONE THE PREMIERSHIP, (incaes you didnt know it that was sarcasm), look every one is entitled to there opinion, rafa has got it wrong and it aint all just him the players arent exactly pulling there weight niether, at this moment in time liverpool fc is a disgrace, even with the players we have now and thats we shoukld be near the top anywhere between 6 and 3rd.

thats my opinion.

at the end of the day you cant blame Rafa, the onus is on the players to perform whatever situation they are put in. if someone payed me 50 grand a week + to kick a ball around and keep fit, then id make sure i play 110% every minute of every game.

Players are payed so much money to entertain, Rafa is only paid to organise them. he cant score for them.

well then rafa should stick to a certain 11, the team will gel they will get confidence even get to know each others runs and movements, i agree that they get payed to much to kick a ball and like you i would do exactly the same as you if i was offered to play for 50 garnd a week, but players wages is another thread, we are talking about rafas tactics and players attitude to wards liverpool fc, the whole liverpool squad is unsettled by this rotation nonsence, Steven Gerrard is the captain of the team does he have a say or give rafa a tip about saying look gaffa is it possible for you to pick a starting 11 and stick to it for a few weeks and see where that gets us? (just an query and idea), as i said before, somthing has got to give, and personally id rather if the star players stayed.

Surely Gerrard should then point to the team and ask them to work for the manager to make his job easier??

If we had a strong 11, (which i dont think we have) then Rafa wouldnt rotate as much. we only have 18 players who havnt played well this season, thats why Rafa feels the need to rotate.

yes fair enough Gerrard should inspire the team out on the pitch and ask them to help the manger, but Rafa aint doing himself any favoursa at the moment is he? he must be to soft with them, when they watch the video for debriefing what runs through his head and the players too? they must see them selves and think oh shít am i playing that bad? and rafa must see his own mistakes too, I hate the rotation situation, its the english league not the spanish league, it doesnt work here, all i say is rafa find a good starting 11 and WE do have good enough players to master that, like i said above they will all grow in confidence as time go along,

by **coddy** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:26 pm

well lets hope we pick things up from here, eh red @ heart?

by **metalhead** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:26 pm

english league, spanish league, blah blah blah! ITS F*CKING FOOTBALL! Football is the same everywhere!! the rules are the same! The difference is the ref.

by **coddy** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:28 pm

metalhead wrote:english league, spanish league, blah blah blah! ITS F*CKING FOOTBALL! Football is the same everywhere!! the rules are the same! The difference is the ref.

you might be onto something there....... especially seeing as Maureen is getting praise for his rotation policy.

but this is English football not Portuguese football

by **welsh wizzard** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:28 pm

Something is not right at the club !! Don't know what it is but there is something going on. We are not playing as a team working for each other etc. Stevie Gerrard has something major on his mind he is not the Stevie Gerrard we all know. He is not playing no where near his true form.

As for other players Pennent, Gonzales are just not good enough. Not for this club anyway!! Alonso is having a very poor season, Bellamy the same but he needs service needs balls being placed behind defenders so he can use his pace to get on the end of them. Michael Owen would also be struggling for goals the way we are playing.

Its starting to worry me, the more and more i look at these things the more i can see something not right within the dressing room. We all know that Rafa is very much a football man lives and breathes football, but he seems to distance himself from any of the players when a player has a breath taking match puts in a top class performance, that player doesn't get the credit he deserves from the manager. Now when the team are struggling players playing well below there ability the manager just doesn't seem to be able to motivate them give them confidence, put an arm around them and tell them they are invincible. Rafa is a football genious don't get me wrong, but when it comes to man managment i think he is struggling.

Its my opinion but there is something not right at this club. We are having a very poor start to the season. Gerrard Houllier was a great man manager without the tactical knowhow etc Rafa is completely the opposite poor manmanager and a great tactical manager pity we can't mould them into one.

I just hope things improve fast !! Before Rafa loses the dressing room..

by **KOPMATT** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:30 pm

ME TOO!!!

by **alessandromagno** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:33 pm

Rafa rotates because he believes in rotation--and for no other reason. It worked in Spain and so it's going to work here, right? Wrong! The I see the more I feel that Rafa will never win the PL with his rotational methods...Anyway, he has a few more years to try.

by **Red @ Heart** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:33 pm

coddy wrote:well lets hope we pick things up from here, eh red @ heart?

maybe we need toget down on our hands an knees an pray,
^^^^^^
is there anybody up there?

by **66-1120597113** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:34 pm

coddy wrote:
metalhead wrote:
coddy wrote:Sorry mate, your talkin bollox. Comparing Houllier and Benitez is just stupid. if you were a true fan you'd stick by the decisions that Rafa has made and live with it. we've been in worse positions over the past 15 years.

Remember Rafa wasnt allowed to sign some of the players he wanted because of cost (i.e. Simao, Joaquin and Alves).

Dont blame Rafa just blame good ol' bad luck for now.

As for Gerrard being embarrassed, he isnt exactly on form himself and definitely not the influence he was last year.

couldnt agree more with you coddy

Cheers mate, i guess im not the only one not over-reacting

You two are both talking sh.te!

I dont mean to sound offensive but you are wrong...its absolutely nothing to do with LUCK.

Individually players are not trying hard enough or performing and more importantly the team as a unit lack ideas and are playing very badly away from home!

Luck does not come into it

by **67-1161385641** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:36 pm

You've made a knee jerk reaction here mate, sorry, but there is constructive criticism and then there is this; a new jerk reaction. I agree with some of your views, but not in the manner in which they are written. I've been left confused and often dazed by some of Rafa's decisions, but he is mastering the Premiership, last season showed this. I do however agree with you, possession, shots on target, free kicks won and corners won mean very little when you're not making it count by scoring goals.

I think Rafa is slowly adjusting to what is needed to win the league, you're forgetting he's only been involved with English football for just over two years, so he's not an expert like Wenger or Ferguson, but it will come with time, surely you must see what Rafa is trying to do? You need to show a bit more patience, we will improve, just ride out the storm like the rest of us. You'll look back on this topic in a few months when we are performing better and kick yourself in the head.

I disagree our game has pace to it, it has enough pace, but we aren't using intelligence with that pace, pace alone will get you nowhere. Plenty of teams have pace, but very few teams intermix pace with intelligence, at the moment we aren't being intelligent upfront, we look flat, lacklustre and we are looking very predictable. I don't think our strikers warrant too much criticism, they aren't getting sufficient service from the midfield, but on the same token they aren't taking their chances when they present themselves, so instead of blaming the strikers, which is an easy thing to do, why not criticise the midfield for failing to provide service and help in the creativity aspect of our game? Our wing play isn't great, today it was shocking, but let’s cut Pennant and Gonzales a bit of slack. They are relatively new and I don't think you can make a clear cut observation on them fairly early on in the season; I'm reserving my judgement until the summer.

To be fair to Rafa, he can't say much to the press than what he has said today, it wouldn't be wise for him to come out publicly and criticise the players, it would do a lot more damage to the team morale than good, I suspect he will have given them a few stern words in the dressing room and that's the best place for that kind of discussion or in Rafa's case a long, angry rant. To be fair to Houllier he only started to make excuses in the tenth degree when he was in the mud, when his tactics were sussed out by other managers and our style became predictable.

I agree the defence is dodgy, that's to be expected when the team confidence is low, look at Carragher he's looking like a shadow of his former self, that's what a lack of confidence can do to you. I cannot accept what you are saying about Reina. Sure the lad has his faults, but he is an exceptional talent for his age, he will no doubt get better, I've criticised him at times this season as well, but there is no denying his quality, anyone who cannot see what a good keeper he is, is blind IMO. He was the key reason we kept the clean sheets we did last season. He commanded his box well last season, he marshalled the defence when needed, I'm not trying to take anything away from the back four because they were as you said immense, there's no denying that. However Rafa made a mistake by making mass change to the back four constantly at the start of the season, this led to a break down in communication and understanding between keeper and defence, which led to leaked goals, which led to a defence on low confidence, which leads to mistakes and howlers from the defence. It's a cycle mate.

I agree with you and I'm questioning a lot of players pride, passion, commitment and heart, because of our gutless performances this season, but again that links in with a lack of confidence, confidence is a big issue here. However our captain who seems above criticism should be skippering the team, he should be rallying the troops and he's not doing this, I'm not liking his attitude to be honest, he's a player who isn't putting in enough effort and for someone who says he loves the club and wants to play, he's having a funny way of showing it, he's not the only one, but as "the core" of our team he should be putting in a lot more than what he's doing at the moment.

Baros was a good player, decent, not great, he tried, but he's not good enough and consistent enough to be playing on a regular basis, Cisse just lacked everything that makes a great striker, Pongolle never got much of a look in, but I doubt he'd offer anything different to what we already have.

I agree with you about Kewell, I cannot wait for him to comeback, but I'm not expecting much from him, because every time I do he gets injured. It's easy saying our signings are poor and we must think big, but we do not have the funds to think big, we cannot simply sign anyone. We would have had Alves if it wasn't for the lack of funds. I also think you're off your head if you think this summers transfers were as bad as Houllier's in 2002, you have to be joking surely?

I agree with you about the stadium, getting a championship winning squad must be much more of a priority than building a new fancy stadium.

Coddy, none has to agree with everything Rafa does, people have a right to challenge and question the manager, instead of blindly following the manager, as long as it's done constructively, this post certainly isn't that, it's reactionary.

by **metalhead** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:39 pm

BarryBelfast wrote:
coddy wrote:
metalhead wrote:
coddy wrote:Sorry mate, your talkin bollox. Comparing Houllier and Benitez is just stupid. if you were a true fan you'd stick by the decisions that Rafa has made and live with it. we've been in worse positions over the past 15 years.

Remember Rafa wasnt allowed to sign some of the players he wanted because of cost (i.e. Simao, Joaquin and Alves).

Dont blame Rafa just blame good ol' bad luck for now.

As for Gerrard being embarrassed, he isnt exactly on form himself and definitely not the influence he was last year.

couldnt agree more with you coddy

Cheers mate, i guess im not the only one not over-reacting

You two are both talking sh.te!

I dont mean to sound offensive but you are wrong...its absolutely nothing to do with LUCK.

Individually players are not trying hard enough or performing and more importantly the team as a unit lack ideas and are playing very badly away from home!

Luck does not come into it

First of all, coddy is saying that also players arent trying hard enough! he did mention that Gerrard isn't doing well because he is cr@p right now. Thats why i agree with him.

by **66-1120597113** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:41 pm

Its not just Gerrard !The whole team was cr@p today mate!

The only one any where near fit to wear the jersey was young Agger....and he was just OK!

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