Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dalglish** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:46 am

peewee wrote:hi ian, ever the optimist

we all want the club to succeed mate, but the frustration is to be expected, as a one off we would have just said "ok" to yesterdays result, but the problem is its not a one off.

as far as rafa goes, we all know gerrard is one of the most gifted central midfielders in the world, yesterday we had a problem with central midfield with the injury to sissoko, i thought like many others that this wont be a problem, we can put a world class player in that position, but rafa ecides to keep him out of position on the right and play a left winger in the centre. so we have a midfield with 2 players not in their best positions. i would have put gerrard centre midfield (his best position, (pennant right wing )his best position and zenden left wing (his best position) and lo and behold we have a midfield with no one out of position.

but what do i know? i have said this beore but rafa is getting that stubborn trait that failed houllier so badly, the desire to prove himself right and im afraid its at the detriment to the team and our season

Hi Peter,

My glass has always been half full mate , yours however is always full to overflowing !

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your comments Peewee and it's not my intention to have a "pop" at people who post constructive criticism but having taken a look at pages and pages of the stuff after the result your post and a few others are the exception, the rest is just over reactive flannel :glare:

As you know I go to the games and therefore have the opportunity to do the "post mortem" on the often long journey home. Others aren't afforded that luxury I suppose and choose to vent their spleen on here. Fair enough I suppose

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:56 am

i decided after this one to be calm so my spleen is as yet unvented

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:58 am

Disappointing result. Poor defending and soft goals.

That being said, we have to put the away form thus far behind us and move on.

We've had two tough games against legcrunchers Everton and Bolton and the other defeats came against the so-called "Big Three".

Boro next and obviously we need to win. We are still only four points away from our realistic target of fourth place. One of our biggest problems right now is giving up before the 90 minutes are up. When we go two or three-nil up, we tend to stop playing thinking we've done enough. When we go two down, the heads drop and we invite further pressure.

That needs to be remedied.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:20 am

I started off at the begining of the season believing we would win the league. Our form for most of last season and the way we came back from the dead against West Ham gave me so much confidence in the future. We had a supposed weakness on the right(not counting Gerrard) and maybe our strikers wernt the most prolific but we got the goals that mattered and the rest of the team looked great, with a nice compact balance.

We spent £30 million improving on that team and to be honest apart from Kuyt it doesnt look better to me. We seem to have bought a lot of decent squad players but not players that improve on the ones we already had. Bellamy works hard and seems to have a better than expected attitude, but Cisse had scored 11 goals by this time last season. Traore who we all laughed at could at least defend. Kewell's loss through injury has been emphasised by Gonzales limited experience and inability to keep possession. Pennant has so far proved my predictions and worst fears might be coming true. The loss of Hamann has been felt so hard because no adequate replacement was available, so he should not have been allowed to go. (Its nice to be generous to a loyal player but the team must come first!)

Gerrard has been a shadow of his former self (forget CM/RM hes been playing poorly by his standards)Same with Carra, maybe its WC hangover but their form has been very erratic.

I know that this is a very negative post and probably an over-reaction to a couple of hard to swallow defeats, but apart from pushing my luck with Traore and Cisse its the truth. The only two new players that have added to the strength of the team have been Agger and Kuyt, the rest have arguably added to the strength of the squad but nothing more.

In the past couple of years we have lost stars like Gerrard, Hamann, Alonso for long periods with injury, yet I have never heard cries such as I have heard since we lost Momo. Is this because Momo is so good or because we are now so weak that we cant cope ?

by **red37** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:37 am

s@int wrote:I started off at the begining of the season believing we would win the league. Our form for most of last season and the way we came back from the dead against West Ham gave me so much confidence in the future. We had a supposed weakness on the right(not counting Gerrard) and maybe our strikers wernt the most prolific but we got the goals that mattered and the rest of the team looked great, with a nice compact balance.

We spent £30 million improving on that team and to be honest apart from Kuyt it doesnt look better to me. We seem to have bought a lot of decent squad players but not players that improve on the ones we already had. Bellamy works hard and seems to have a better than expected attitude, but Cisse had scored 11 goals by this time last season. Traore who we all laughed at could at least defend. Kewell's loss through injury has been emphasised by Gonzales limited experience and inability to keep possession. Pennant has so far proved my predictions and worst fears might be coming true. The loss of Hamann has been felt so hard because no adequate replacement was available, so he should not have been allowed to go. (Its nice to be generous to a loyal player but the team must come first!)

Gerrard has been a shadow of his former self (forget CM/RM hes been playing poorly by his standards)Same with Carra, maybe its WC hangover but their form has been very erratic.

I know that this is a very negative post and probably an over-reaction to a couple of hard to swallow defeats, but apart from pushing my luck with Traore and Cisse its the truth. The only two new players that have added to the strength of the team have been Agger and Kuyt, the rest have arguably added to the strength of the squad but nothing more.

In the past couple of years we have lost stars like Gerrard, Hamann, Alonso for long periods with injury, yet I have never heard cries such as I have heard since we lost Momo. Is this because Momo is so good or because we are now so weak that we cant cope ?

i dont think many would argue against the level headed tone and content of your post Saint...i truly felt there might have been a 'chance' at the title this year as well... sadly, events have transpired to make that clearly out of the question now. though in order to address the balance thats plainly retarding this club in its quest for a nineteenth championship. worryingly there appear to be as many questions as yet unanswered this far into the season regarding our away form in the league as there are reasons to be cheerful in the cup competitions..where we do seem to be set up right. its a strange season thats for certain.

still-the sentence that ultimately matters the most now, written on reflection today is this one from Dalglish: "It's time to stand up and be counted and that applies to PLAYERS as well as Supporters !!"

well said.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:55 am

Ciggy wrote:Until we get a mean streak and start showing some f.uckin passion we wont be winning any league in my life time.

As much as I hate to say it that's the difference between us and let's say Man United.

Their sqaud is pretty much on par with ours yet they are out in front of the league. Why? Passion, belief and also playing players in position and having a more or less soild starting eleven, i.e. no rotation.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:13 am

LFC #1 wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Until we get a mean streak and start showing some f.uckin passion we wont be winning any league in my life time.

As much as I hate to say it that's the difference between us and let's say Man United.

Their sqaud is pretty much on par with ours yet they are out in front of the league. Why? Passion, belief and also playing players in position and having a more or less soild starting eleven, i.e. no rotation.

Sorry mate, but that is utter b*llocks.

The Scum's rotation record this season is on a par with ours.

Sky SPorts put the stats up, and while Rafa has changed the team something like 19 times, Red nose had done it 17.

Rotation isn't the problem. It's all very well saying "it doesn't work in England", but if Ugg the caveman had thought "flint and dry leaves don't do anything", we could still be sh*tting in the woods today.

Have a little faith.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:18 am

Dalglish wrote:Oh dear oh dear , the curtains have barely closed on another LFC away defeat in the Premiership and the "Grim Reapers" who purport to be fans sharpen their sycthes and predict doomsday for Liverpool Football Club

For many THIS was the year that LFC were supposed to be mounting a serious challenge to Chelsea's dominance of the Premiership and so I suppose the frustration is understandable. Whats NOT understandable in my eyes is the venom and loss of perspective from many members on here who were probably claiming we are unbeatable a fortnight ago !

Whats irrefutable is the loss of form of our most inspirational player, a team lacking in even the confidence (Especially when we go a goal behind) and the underachievement of several of the new signings (Pennant and Gonzales).

Whats particualrly concerning me is the absence of Stevie G whose head is usually the first to drop to his chest when we fall a goal behind and the inability of the manager to fathom out whats going so badly wrong away from home.

With the exception of Eveton we lost ALL our away games against Bolton, United, Chelsea and Arsenal LAST Season you know but I don't recall the same reaction then....................

We'll no doubt go on an extended run in the Prem now and possibly make one of the Cup Finals (Pick any one from three) and Yes I include the European Cup Final in that and some of you on here will hang off the ceiling with jubilation and conveniently forget the day you stuck the knife into your own club !

Walk on ...................

I agree entirely.

Rafael Benitez has taken this club to the top of European football on a shoestring, amassed our highest ever Premiership points total, won the FA cup (knocking out the hardest teams along the way), and collected several other trophies (Super Cup, Community shield) in 2 and a bit seasons.

Those calling for his head and/or losing confidence in him do nothing but highlight their own mental challenges.
Do these "fans" not realise that we are competing against the one true footballing superpower in ever single competition we enter? Do they fail to see the facts that are present before them? Chelsea have spent more under Abramovich's tenure than our football club has in its entire history. Throw the Manc Scum into the equation, and we are up against the 2 richest clubs in the World.

The obsticles blurring Rafa's vision of the Premiership crown are monumental, and would have a lesser man running scared.

So what does he do?

He goes and wins the biggest club competition in the World, beating the super-power, the Italian champions, the runners up of the previous year's competition and AC Milan who, and let's be fair to them, were phenominal, and are no strangers to European success.

He then sells the deadwood (minus Diao, ofcourse), and breaks numerous records both at the club and in the country.

Under any other circumstances, we would probably have won the title last season, but for Sh*tski's pocket dominance. The Scum finished above us, but had we not lost both league matches to them, (pre Moneybags, we regularly whacked them at Anfield, despite our perennial struggles at Shatford Bridge), we would have topped the table. And before anyone farts and suggests that the scum would have done the same - they beat Sh*tski last season.

So what now? Do we look for another manager who could improve our fortunes? Do we have a generation to waste searching for someone who doesn't exist?
Do we throw in the towel and accept our lot?

Do we attempt to lure Moris or Fergie from their respective soulless sh*theaps?

No - we walk on. It's the Liverpool way.

:buttrock

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:49 am

Lets get rid of Rafa. After all whats he ever won? Great managers are fighting to come to Anfield, we could even get Sven if we were lucky. It always works changing your manager look at Newcastle. Or perhaps we could have a little faith in a man who has brought us more trophys in a couple of years than most clubs see in a lifetime. He will fix the problem if we give him time, and maybe next year we will win the league. This year we may have to settle for a couple of cups and 4th place ,but whatever happens this season ,to talk about replacing one of the best managers in the world is ludicrous.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:54 am

s@int wrote:Lets get rid of Rafa. After all whats he ever won? Great managers are fighting to come to Anfield, we could even get Sven if we were lucky. It always works changing your manager look at Newcastle. Or perhaps we could have a little faith in a man who has brought us more trophys in a couple of years than most clubs see in a lifetime. He will fix the problem if we give him time, and maybe next year we will win the league. This year we may have to settle for a couple of cups and 4th place ,but whatever happens this season ,to talk about replacing one of the best managers in the world is ludicrous.

No mate - it's f*cking insane.

Tell you what - I would happily punch every single "Rafa out-er" in the head if the c*nts ever succeed in pushing him out.

You doubting w*nkers might want to play the style your f*cking Comprehensive school's homosexual gym teacher employed as you reached the Quarter-finals of the inter-school's championship of Droitwich, but I want LFC to reclaim it's rightful place at the top of the English and European game.

Times change, and successful people move on. You losers would know that, though, would you?

So f*ck off. :nod

by **A.B.** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:06 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
LFC #1 wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Until we get a mean streak and start showing some f.uckin passion we wont be winning any league in my life time.

As much as I hate to say it that's the difference between us and let's say Man United.

Their sqaud is pretty much on par with ours yet they are out in front of the league. Why? Passion, belief and also playing players in position and having a more or less soild starting eleven, i.e. no rotation.

Sorry mate, but that is utter b*llocks.

The Scum's rotation record this season is on a par with ours.

Sky SPorts put the stats up, and while Rafa has changed the team something like 19 times, Red nose had done it 17.

Rotation isn't the problem. It's all very well saying "it doesn't work in England", but if Ugg the caveman had thought "flint and dry leaves don't do anything", we could still be sh*tting in the woods today.

Have a little faith.

Lando is spot on. That is bullocks of the highest order.

For the past five games [excluding Carling Cup] almost the same team has been put on that pitch.

Reina,Finnan,Carragher,Hyypia and Riise at the back.

Gerrard and Alonso in midfield, Garcia either on the left or the right but he picked up an injury so we had to replace him.

Up front we've played Crouch and Kuyt since we beat Villa at home.

Rotation has nothing to do with our away form, people want to think that because they don't have a good enough reason to why we're poor away from home. You along with most of others are trying to say that rotation is why our players play with no balls and no spine?

What did rotation had to do with our players giving up at half-time against Arsenal today? Absolutely nothing. Our players are taking the fact that they're playing for this club for granted. Certain players need a beating, not a kick up the ar$e. Getting paid a ridicilious amount of money and putting in a spineless performance.

I didn't realize that we had a captain at this club because he's been missing for a while. Jamie Carradona, has been :censored:

. Sorry but he has and people aren't slating him because he's a local lad. He's been as poor or worse than Hyypia this season, and once again his poor marking cost us a goal in the first half.

Only a few have showed up to play away from home and it's shocking because we improved our away record last season.

I don't know what it is, but rotation isn't the problem that people are fixed on to think.

Gerrard playing on the right isn't the problem, he's played there last season,scored 23 goals and people said feck all.

But everyone is an expert, and everyone knows the team better than Rafa. Guess we all could become professional certified world class managers.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:01 am

I agree entirely.

Rafael Benitez has taken this club to the top of European football on a shoestring, amassed our highest ever Premiership points total, won the FA cup (knocking out the hardest teams along the way), and collected several other trophies (Super Cup, Community shield) in 2 and a bit seasons.

Those calling for his head and/or losing confidence in him do nothing but highlight their own mental challenges.
Do these "fans" not realise that we are competing against the one true footballing superpower in ever single competition we enter? Do they fail to see the facts that are present before them? Chelsea have spent more under Abramovich's tenure than our football club has in its entire history. Throw the Manc Scum into the equation, and we are up against the 2 richest clubs in the World.

The obsticles blurring Rafa's vision of the Premiership crown are monumental, and would have a lesser man running scared.

So what does he do?

He goes and wins the biggest club competition in the World, beating the super-power, the Italian champions, the runners up of the previous year's competition and AC Milan who, and let's be fair to them, were phenominal, and are no strangers to European success.

He then sells the deadwood (minus Diao, ofcourse), and breaks numerous records both at the club and in the country.

Under any other circumstances, we would probably have won the title last season, but for Sh*tski's pocket dominance. The Scum finished above us, but had we not lost both league matches to them, (pre Moneybags, we regularly whacked them at Anfield, despite our perennial struggles at Shatford Bridge), we would have topped the table. And before anyone farts and suggests that the scum would have done the same - they beat Sh*tski last season.

So what now? Do we look for another manager who could improve our fortunes? Do we have a generation to waste searching for someone who doesn't exist?
Do we throw in the towel and accept our lot?

Do we attempt to lure Moris or Fergie from their respective soulless sh*theaps?

No - we walk on. It's the Liverpool way.

Great post

by **red37** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:16 am

accountability here lies at the feet of the players. not the manager that has moved heaven and earth in establishing this clubs name back to some degree of credibility across europe. the only thing that is retarding its ascent to the summit of the premiership is the evident lack in equal amounts of both ability and a pair of bollox where several of its employees are concerned.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:53 am

Lando/Saint.....your optimism is admirable, I have to say. And I agree with you that we shouldn't dismiss Rafa as a kneejerk reaction. But what I'll say is this: I did not see one shred of commitment, of passion, of WANTING to win the game, of believing we were better than Arsenal, of believing in ourselves (even after going a goal down), of believing we have a right to be above Arsenal and any other team in the Premiership, the list goes on and on.....
I was embarrassed by the performance and the result, truly ashamed.....You know, when I think back to Rafa's preseason and midseason rantings that November would be the month when his rotation policy would shine through, and when the new signings would gel.....It makes me laugh. Actually, it doesn't....It makes me sick with envy to see another middling team like Manure play for each other and
WANT to win. I am so :censored:

off this morning - and I've got a scumbag Arsenal fan beside me just pissin' me off big time. So what if we turn them over in the Cup - who cares ?

by **stmichael** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:56 am

I'm as disappointed as the next fan, but I can't be ar$ed trawling through this thread because I know exactly what I'll here from the normal doom and gloom mongers, Rafa got it wrong, zenden is sh#t, zonal marking from corners blah blah blah.

I wasn't disappointed with the team selection yesterday - although I would have preferred to see Gerrard in the middle - and I think we started the game with a positive enough approach, so I don't think the manager can be faulted too much for yesterday's performance. He does need to do something about our mental fragility when we go a goal down though. I don't know what the statistics are like, but it seems like we never manage to come back when we go a goal down; especially away from home. We should have come out in the second half with all guns blazing but instead we just capitulated AGAIN. That's the one thing he needs to address most right now.

Liverpool FC Forum

ARSENAL VS LIVERPOOL

Who is online