Barnes: the death of our wingers - Pennant and gonzo can they do it?!?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Rafa D » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:49 am

Genuine wingers are a rare commodity in the modern game. So many squads, even at the top level, are packed with technically gifted midfielders, but all of whom are best suited to roles in the centre.

Liverpool has been a perfect example of this in recent years. Danny Murphy, Vladimir Smicer, Steven Gerrard, Xabi Alonso, Dietmar Hamann, Igor Biscan, Salif Diao, Gary McAllister have all graced the club, have all played at international level and are all best suited to the central midfield role. Even players such as Luis Garcia and Harry Kewell, in some people’s opinion are best suited to free roles. Stevie G has been handed the role this year again, but does not look happy and IS a central midfielder.

We’ve been starved of a player who can hold a position on the wing, giving us width, and when receiving the ball can actually carry the ball and go past players and, crucially, provide an end product.

Traditionally, in Liverpool’s best sides, we’ve had genuine wingers. Peter Thompson and Ian Callaghan were the best example of this. When both played, we could pull opposition teams from one side to the other. Steve Heighway followed, another who was a master at creating goals for others from wide positions.

And then, in 1987 came in my opinion one of the greatest wingers ever seen in the game, and one of Liverpool’s most talented ever players. It’s odd to believe that John Barnes’s most famous moment in football came 3 years before he signed for Liverpool from Watford for £900,000. He dazzled the Brazilian defence with pace, skill and close control on his way to scoring one of the greatest goals by an England player.

Ironically, Barnes never went no to show his true abilities at international level. Aside from Gascoigne, I haven’t seen another England player of the past 30 years who could change a game with the ball at his feet. But for Liverpool, Barnes was at times, unstoppable.

Unfortunately I never got to see Barnes play live during his best days. I did see him however once he’d lost a lot of pace, and simply converted himself to a holding midfield player…where he showed off his passing abilities for 2 or 3 years before he left for Newcastle United. However I’ve seen endless footage of his finest moments.

The classic Barnes strike was cutting in from the left hand side and firing an unstoppable right footed shot into the top far corner. It happened numerous times at Anfield and also at Goodison Park. Also, from dead ball situations, his left foot could often produce a curled shot of great pace which flew into the top corner. I also remember him scoring a spectacular overhead kick in 1994, as well as a couple of cheeky back-heeled goals in the FA Cup against Crewe, and in the Cup Winners Cup in 1996 against Sion. He was actually a great finisher for a midfielder, and it’s no surprise he scored 108 times in his 409 appearances for Liverpool.

But we all know what was best about Barnes. In a rout of Forest in the late 1980s, he was right by the corner flag on the left wing, Kop End. He had three forest players around him. He simply turned, pushed the ball between a defender's legs, then skipped to the side of another challenge before laying on the ball for Beardsley. John Motson could only gasp and marvel at the move.

On his day, he would pick the ball up seven to ten times a game, and turn to face the defender, a quick change of direction and he was away, it didn’t matter which way, his right foot was as good as his left. His pace and strength and close control on the ball would do the rest. The cross or shot would follow, and a chance or a goal would often be the end result. Ian Rush or John Aldridge, often the finisher.

Barnes won two titles at Liverpool, and one FA Cup winners’ medal, a Coca Cola Cup and 3 Charity Shields. During his first title year of 1987/88, Barnes scored 15 times and was voted both PFA and Football Writers Player of the Year. In the second of his title wins (1989/90) he scored an impressive 22 goals. He went on to captain Liverpool in the mid-90s, once he’d switched roles on the pitch, and eventually received an MBE.

In other positions on the pitch, one of the reasons why Liverpool had such prolonged success through the 70s and 80s, was how players were replaced. Keegan was replaced by Dalglish, for example. And even later, Ian Rush was replaced by Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler. In Fowler, there is no doubt in my mind we had a player who, injury permitting, could've gone on to be the top Premiership goalscorer ever. But one difference, Rush played in a team when chances were created for him regularly. He missed plenty, but scored a hell of a lot. Fowler rarely missed. But one player we've never even got closed to replacing, is Barnes.

For me, John Barnes is not just the type of player we’ve never replaced, but also the type that is extremely difficult to find in the modern game. I have no doubt that in Xabi Alonso, we have  a player of Barnes’s class, and the type of composed passer that we desperately need. However, not just Liverpool but the game in general craves wide players.


It’s no surprise to me that the Scum are top of the league today and they have Giggs and Ronaldo, the two best wingers in the country this season. Chelsea are currently invincible, and this has coincided with the return of form of Robben, in my opinion, the best dribbler of a ball since Barnes, hate him or not, he’s a very talented player and offers plenty of width, and can certainly beat a player.

How I wished to see the day when Liverpool have a quick winger on each side of the pitch, especially now with Kuyt and Crouchie, we have players who are prolific in the air.  I am just hoping, no praying that Gonzo and Pennant can do the business for us. However at the moment, they aren't we dont look balanced at all and there not getting down the wings at all!
Last edited by Rafa D on Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Redman in wales » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:29 am

:bowdown  oh johnny barnes how we could do with you now...

i love wingers. love 'em. pace, skill, taking on players, just very exciting to watch. I would love to have seen SWP here, i think he would have been awesome (i know it wont happen).. but i think gonzo could be a gem. Its too  early to tell yet, but i too am hopeing and praying that he will be our ronaldo/robben/giggs.... our new barnes
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Postby floppo » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:40 am

It's too early to say whether they will be a success for us, at the moment I think Gonzales has more potential than Pennant. If any of them can get anywhere near the standard of John Barnes at his best I'll be a very happy man indeed, because he is a Liverpool legend in my eyes.

Both need to get a decent run of games because wingers perhaps more than other positions need to play regularly and in the same position every week.
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Postby Ace Ventura » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:40 am

I think the jury is still out on both tbh.
Pennant i think has the attributes but seems to need to be told to play without fear of making a mistake.
He crosses the ball too early rather than take the player on, despite the fact that the majority of time he takes on the full back he is able to go round him pretty easily.
He also needs to support the strikers quicker when crosses are coming in from the left, but that is something that he could overcome imo.
Gonzalez looks a bit over eager, like he is desperate to impress, his touch hasnt been the greatest nor his composure, but he gets himself into good positions is not afraid to get his shots away and has pace to burn.
Both need to majorly improve though if they are to be regular starters.
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Postby floppo » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:43 am

That's true but the only way to get the best out of them and see an improvement is to give them a regular starting berth. :)
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Postby Ola Mr Benitez » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:12 am

Gonzales is a million miles away from John "Digger" Barnes.  Barnes controlled the ball with close contact.  Gonzo just hits it and uses his speed to get past the defender. 

I agree with Ace, Pennant seems to have everything in his locker that he needs to be a more "Barnes like" player, except for confidence.  He needs a run of games out on the wing to get him into his stride, but we ll know that will not happen under Rafa as he continues to "tinker" every game.
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Postby Redman in wales » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:30 am

Redman in wales wrote:but i too am hopeing and praying that he will be our ronaldo/robben/giggs.... our new barnes

just to clarify, i wasn't comparing gonzalez to barnes, or saying he would be as good as him, i mean that i would be hoping and praying that he would be an exciting and game-changing winger. dribbling, taking players on and shooting ala robben/giggs etc, having a big impact... i dont think he will reach the same standard... a player like barnes comes along once in a blue moon.
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Postby barnesrush » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:33 am

ive heard the lads an arsenal fan but anyone think we could get the new barnesy from watford again. ashley young anyone?
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Postby Houllier=LFC » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:49 am

We are in desperate need of a Steve McManaman, someone who can breeze past defenders with ease, makes you wonder what is happening to the youth academy been ages since a scouser came through the ranks.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:37 pm

floppo wrote:It's too early to say whether they will be a success for us, at the moment I think Gonzales has more potential than Pennant. If any of them can get anywhere near the standard of John Barnes at his best I'll be a very happy man indeed, because he is a Liverpool legend in my eyes.

Both need to get a decent run of games because wingers perhaps more than other positions need to play regularly and in the same position every week.

I think the exact opposite is true. To me Pennant is far more comfortable running at defenders and the unfortunate thing for Gonzales is that when Kewell is fit he'll be warming Harrys seat.

Pennant on the other hand is a first choice when Gerrard is played in his correct position. If Rafa can some how sort out a shift system between Alonso and Sissoko and play Gerrard in the middle regularly then we will start to see the level of delivery Pennant was providing at Birmingham
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Postby jizz » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:44 pm

this could be a mad statement, but has anyone seen nakamura for celtic play..? i am a huge fan of celtic and watch them play quite a lot, and every time i have seen him this year he has impressed by his wing play and dead ball situations, i know people dont rate the scotish league, but he has done it at champions league and international level, i for one think he could do a good job for the pool....
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Postby tubby » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:09 pm

The problem with Gonzales is that he has not yet adjusted to the pace and physical nature of the Premiership. In Europe he could be utilised but i think it will take a while before hw can really stamp some authority on a domestic level.
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Postby Ace Ventura » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:15 pm

bavlondon wrote:The problem with Gonzales is that he has not yet adjusted to the pace and physical nature of the Premiership. In Europe he could be utilised but i think it will take a while before hw can really stamp some authority on a domestic level.

TBh mate i'm not so sure its just the pace, as i thought he struggled more at Bordeaux on Wednesday, i think he is over eager to impress and snatching at chances. Also technically he's a bit raw, that should improve hopefully.
He does need time and its unfortunate that Kewell is injured as he's sort of being thrown in at the deep end.
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Postby Bermenstein » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:54 pm

If any manager in the game has superb foresight and judgement of player potential, it surely is Arsene Wenger. If he didn't see anything in Pennant, who can. IMO he was a panic buy, as we did not get Simao, Joaquinn or any of the other wingers we were linked with. I would love to be wrong, but time will surely tell.
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Postby jkop » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:20 pm

John Barnes was brilliant in his day and i do think Gonzo and Pennant will come good but i still think we are missing Harry. :nod
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