Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:42 pm

It's my impression that our trusty right-back is going through something of a lull at the moment after a couple of really solid seasons. I haven't seen any of yesterdays game, but his name did crop up in a couple of post-mortems on the goal and overall I think he's suffering a lack of confidence.

I did make the point a season or so ago that playing behind Steven Gerrard at right-mid might just be the biggest dream ticket around for a right full-back, and that we may all be slightly overestimating the Irishmans abilities because of that. On reflection, that may have been a tad harsh, Finnan is a good player but teams are beginning to get at him a bit and whenever Gerrard doesn't play right-mid, he has the look of the playground bullies best mate when the harder lad gets shoved in a young offenders. He looked distinctly uncomfortable against Bolton just with the sheer physicality of the challenge and more than most, he is suffering a crisis of confidence.

Professor s0d is up to his old tricks again as Finnan is the only outfield player who can't really be rotated (I know Carragher can play there but it's not really an option). So what do we do? Do we stick with him or is it the case that Palletta can fill in?, do we have a young kid who can step into the fray? or did Aurelio play half a season at right-back for Valencia two years ago ( nice to see him go back to left-back yesterday, I've always felt he would be better there). Anybody else concerned about our Mr Rock Steady Eddie?

by **RUSHIE#9** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:59 pm

bigmick wrote:It's my impression that our trusty right-back is going through something of a lull at the moment after a couple of really solid seasons. I haven't seen any of yesterdays game, but his name did crop up in a couple of post-mortems on the goal and overall I think he's suffering a lack of confidence.

I did make the point a season or so ago that playing behind Steven Gerrard at right-mid might just be the biggest dream ticket around for a right full-back, and that we may all be slightly overestimating the Irishmans abilities because of that. On reflection, that may have been a tad harsh, Finnan is a good player but teams are beginning to get at him a bit and whenever Gerrard doesn't play right-mid, he has the look of the playground bullies best mate when the harder lad gets shoved in a young offenders. He looked distinctly uncomfortable against Bolton just with the sheer physicality of the challenge and more than most, he is suffering a crisis of confidence.

Professor s0d is up to his old tricks again as Finnan is the only outfield player who can't really be rotated (I know Carragher can play there but it's not really an option). So what do we do? Do we stick with him or is it the case that Palletta can fill in?, do we have a young kid who can step into the fray? or did Aurelio play half a season at right-back for Valencia two years ago ( nice to see him go back to left-back yesterday, I've always felt he would be better there). Anybody else concerned about our Mr Rock Steady Eddie?

Agreeably Mick, Finnan hasn't looked his ol' self this season in one or two games, but I wouldn't be too quick to dump all of the blame for yesterdays goal at his doorstep. I've stated a couple of times on here that my belief is that the LB position is causing us the trouble this season. Yesterday McCarthy did come in from our right handside unmarked but finnan had been pulled into the middle as the whole of the defence had to shift over because the LB (Aurelio I think) had gone walk about (again).
The opinions of Aurelio on here have been a bit mixed and myself I'm very dubious about how he's settling in. Alot of the goals we've conceeded have come from our left this season when Aurelio has been playing (Riise as well on a couple of occassions in truth). This though should be discussed in a sperate thread though.
As for Finnan his attacking qualities have come to the fore so far this season and you would have to suspect that any loss of performance defensively has been because of this.
The lack of cover for him may also be a factor; I remember in his first season when there wasn't much pressure on him for his position he wasn't looking like the player we've become accustomed to seeing. Whether he's relaxed a tad too much or is scared of getting injured and leaving us bare in that position does have to asked but only he can answer it. However I'm more concerned about the bigger picture currently than an apparent slight dip in form of Finnan.

by **red37** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:13 pm

in fairness Finnan goes about his business well, in an unflustered way. and usually doesnt suffer the status of scapegoat in the majority of cases. he does though 'seem' different, than per usual.

nailed on question for me though and a fair one. and a query thats previously escaped scrutiny due to failings elsewhere. but needs addressing because right now, both full-backs seem very exposed and vulnerable to the simplest of balls..ones that are causing real damage ultimately. there appears to be far too much space between the back line as a whole, regardless.

the beauty of Gerrard at RM, you'd think, is that in defence of the ball, Finnan is being assisted by few better suited than that, in having stevie as cover...reality is, while Gerrard is driving the team on, or involved in a play, he's way too far from the action when it becomes backs to the wall time, to make any meaningful contribution to a threat from fast counterattacks.

even lofted hopeful balls are causing havoc. though id put that down more to the gulf between defence and midfield and the lack of any chance to maintain communication well enough, rather than the defensive channels. even so, for me there's two areas of the pitch already open for criticism.

put the two theories together and suffer the consequences thereof. and you end up with 11 points from 8 games. thats my two-penneth anyway...

THIS is where we are missing Hamann imo.

by **JC_81** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:24 pm

I've been more of a lurker than a poster on here the past few months, for various reasons, but this is a topic that can't be ignored and I'm glad Bigmick has pointed it out.

Finnan has had 2 brilliantly solid seasons, but this season I'll be the first to say he's been more than a bit dodgy. Reina has taken all the flak, but another man has suffered from Benitez's constant tinkering with the back four and that man is Steve Finnan. There is a different centre half combo playing to his left every week and a different right mid in front of him every other week, which hasn't helped the lad. But there have been times this season when his positional play and general alertness to danger have deserted him. The Bolton game which you mention Mick, was the worst I've seen Finnan play in a red shirt. He was all over the place. Again, like yourself I have been limited to seeing the highlights of yesterday's game so I can't really comment on what he was like.

I don't think it's worth laying into Finnan for this, there are half a dozen of our players who haven't got out of the starting blocks yet this season, Gerrard and Carra included, but certainly Finnan's performances have not gone unnoticed by me.

There are a lot of excuses flying around as to why we're not getting the results this season: 'we can't play away from home', 'It's Reina's fault', 'Sami's too old', 'Gerrard should be in the middle', 'Pennant was a mistake' etc. For me it is a combination of 4 things:

1. Key decisions have gone against us in the big games
2. We've had a tough run of away fixtures early doors
3. Squad rotation doesn't work in the premiership (did we not learn from last season?)
4. We brought in a lot of new faces and it was always going to take time for the new-look team to gel.

But anyway, that's for another thread...

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:52 pm

I agree, John, that Finnan seems to be suffering from the changes around him and, I would add, from Carragher's increased tentativeness of late.

Mick, I still wouldn't think that Paletta's the answer. Like Reina, we need to stick with Finnan and give him time to play his way into form. At the end of the day, he's the best RB we have and he'll surely remind us why again soon.

For those that haven't seen the goal, here's the link:

McCarthy Strike

It looks to me as though Riise (our LB in the first half, before he switched spots with Aurelio) was caught well upfield. Emerton produced a crisp pass to Bentley down our left flank, forcing Hyypia to charge across. Bentley's quick cross for Nonda (??) got over Carragher's head, bounced over Finnan's and fell nicely to McCarthy to slot home.

Individual errors were no doubt made on this goal and it'll take someone more expert in defensive duties than me to highlight them. From my perspective though, a few things are apparent:

1) the entire back line was caught cold by the pace of the counterattack: a crisp Emerton pass followed by an early cross. All four were scrambling back madly and, thus, failed to either prevent the cross or cut it out before it reached McCarthy.

2) Finnan might have done better with the ball. He seemed to be in no man's land--caught between helping Carragher with Nonda or tracking McCarthy at the back post. He also didn't seem to anticipate the flight of the ball well and got caught underneath the bounce. In fairness to him, he was sprinting back full tilt and didn't have a lot of time to compose himself and cut out the danger.

3) Reina also looked caught in no man's land. I'm not sure if he was coming to close Nonda down or whether he thought he could cut out the cross himself. In either case, he was off his line and scrambling back when it fell to McCarthy.

This goal seems like a carbon copy of a few we've conceded this season from crosses from the left (Galatasay and Everton come to mind) so something's clearly not working when our back four shifts left. Anyone up for analyzing the way these things are supposed to be defended for the edification of us all?

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:18 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Mick, I still wouldn't think that Paletta's the answer. Like Reina, we need to stick with Finnan and give him time to play his way into form. At the end of the day, he's the best RB we have and he'll surely remind us why again soon.

Bob I've hardly seen Paletta play so I wouldn't be saying he's the answer either I was just guessing (I think he's a centre-back anyhow isn't he?). I'm actually hopeful that Finnan is still the answer, but it's bl00dy typical the way things are that as the only player we haven't got a replacement for, he suddenly decides (not deliberately obviously) to lose form for the first time in two seasons.

As for the goal (thanks for the link Bob it's the first time I've seen it) I wouldn't be blaming Finnan much at all really (just shows you what newspaper reporters know.) It was very reminiscant of other goals we have conceded this season in that we are simply outnumbered when a team breaks onto us quickly. there is a bloke outside of the goalscorer should the cross elude him, and it's therefore a fact of the matter that we aren't tracking midfielders back with enough gusto. Finnan gets caught trying to get in and cover Carragher (who continues to be someway from his best) and then misjudges the flight and bounce of the cross.

What is equally worrying about the goal (and it's really hard to judge it overall from a link ina tiny computer window) is that it appears to be another error from the goalkeeper. If he stays on his line then McCarthy still has a lot to do. As it was he made the guys mind up for him with a poor decision. It's ironic really that Finnan and Reina are probably the only two people we physically can't rotate, and are probably the two people who could benefit most from it.

by **stmichael** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:27 pm

finnan has not looked himself this season as he hasn't got gerrard infront of him this season a lot of the time. at least gerrard tracked back and helped out. garcia or pennant don't help finnan out at all from a defensive point of view.

FWIW i think finnan needs some serious competition for his place. at the moment he's in too much of a comfort zone imo.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:39 pm

Bad Bob wrote:It looks to me as though Riise (our LB in the first half, before he switched spots with Aurelio) was caught well upfield. Emerton produced a crisp pass to Bentley down our left flank, forcing Hyypia to charge across. Bentley's quick cross for Nonda (??) got over Carragher's head, bounced over Finnan's and fell nicely to McCarthy to slot home.

My memory might be wrong but i'm pretty sure the error was Riises'. He did get caught out high up the pitch and i believe it was him who gave the ball away. aurelio failed to slot into the spcae vacated by JAR and Emerton exploited it. As for Finnan, i'm not particularly worried. Maybe knowing he has no-one competing for the RB spot could an edge off his game but i believe he is probably suffering from the general malaise in the team. Incidentally he had a couple of good moments going forward during the 2nd half yesterday.

by **andypool2285** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:09 pm

No im sorry but i think you have got this total wrong i think steve finnan has been only good player this season he do his job a that it 2 :censored:

as well.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:41 pm

bigmick wrote:It's my impression that our trusty right-back is going through something of a lull at the moment after a couple of really solid seasons. I haven't seen any of yesterdays game, but his name did crop up in a couple of post-mortems on the goal and overall I think he's suffering a lack of confidence.

I did make the point a season or so ago that playing behind Steven Gerrard at right-mid might just be the biggest dream ticket around for a right full-back, and that we may all be slightly overestimating the Irishmans abilities because of that. On reflection, that may have been a tad harsh, Finnan is a good player but teams are beginning to get at him a bit and whenever Gerrard doesn't play right-mid, he has the look of the playground bullies best mate when the harder lad gets shoved in a young offenders. He looked distinctly uncomfortable against Bolton just with the sheer physicality of the challenge and more than most, he is suffering a crisis of confidence.

Professor s0d is up to his old tricks again as Finnan is the only outfield player who can't really be rotated (I know Carragher can play there but it's not really an option). So what do we do? Do we stick with him or is it the case that Palletta can fill in?, do we have a young kid who can step into the fray? or did Aurelio play half a season at right-back for Valencia two years ago ( nice to see him go back to left-back yesterday, I've always felt he would be better there). Anybody else concerned about our Mr Rock Steady Eddie?

What about in Rafa’s first season in charge when Finnan had all sorts playing in front of him and he was fantastic, only second to Carragher

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:47 pm

I tell you what, there have be worse performances this season from other players in the team. I wouldnt single out Finnan, I thought he had a decent game against Blackburn. He may of not been at his best but he wasnt that bad IMO. Most people will put their Blackburns goal down too him, which is fair enough. But I have to say Reina can take half the blame on that one too. Again he shows his undecisiveness when comes out and gets caught in no mans land.

The whole team is playing below par and to be worried about Finnan who has been playing okay, seems to be picking holes for the wrong reasons as their are bigger ones elsewhere in the team. Another player who did worry me on Saturday was Bellamy, for sixty minutes he DID nothing. Then he scored his first goal of the season, and then after being frustrated with him I was relieved he'd got his goal and in hoping this would kick- start his Liverpool career with that goal. But the most worrying thing for me came after he scored, he still looked and lacked confidence. The goal hardly raised his game, and at times he looked as though he didnt want the ball, it was like a hot potatoe to him. His confidence is non existant at the moment, and I think the pressure has got to him, becuase if a players game isnt raised after a confidence booster of a goal, I dont know what will get him going.

by **Espionage** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:49 am

Bad Bob wrote:I agree, John, that Finnan seems to be suffering from the changes around him and, I would add, from Carragher's increased tentativeness of late.

Mick, I still wouldn't think that Paletta's the answer. Like Reina, we need to stick with Finnan and give him time to play his way into form. At the end of the day, he's the best RB we have and he'll surely remind us why again soon.

For those that haven't seen the goal, here's the link:

McCarthy Strike

It looks to me as though Riise (our LB in the first half, before he switched spots with Aurelio) was caught well upfield. Emerton produced a crisp pass to Bentley down our left flank, forcing Hyypia to charge across. Bentley's quick cross for Nonda (??) got over Carragher's head, bounced over Finnan's and fell nicely to McCarthy to slot home.

Individual errors were no doubt made on this goal and it'll take someone more expert in defensive duties than me to highlight them. From my perspective though, a few things are apparent:

1) the entire back line was caught cold by the pace of the counterattack: a crisp Emerton pass followed by an early cross. All four were scrambling back madly and, thus, failed to either prevent the cross or cut it out before it reached McCarthy.

2) Finnan might have done better with the ball. He seemed to be in no man's land--caught between helping Carragher with Nonda or tracking McCarthy at the back post. He also didn't seem to anticipate the flight of the ball well and got caught underneath the bounce. In fairness to him, he was sprinting back full tilt and didn't have a lot of time to compose himself and cut out the danger.

3) Reina also looked caught in no man's land. I'm not sure if he was coming to close Nonda down or whether he thought he could cut out the cross himself. In either case, he was off his line and scrambling back when it fell to McCarthy.

This goal seems like a carbon copy of a few we've conceded this season from crosses from the left (Galatasay and Everton come to mind) so something's clearly not working when our back four shifts left. Anyone up for analyzing the way these things are supposed to be defended for the edification of us all?

In all fairness Reina was in exactly the right position for defending the cross if the first man hadnt missed the ball. He had to do that, and rely that the ball wouldnt bounce and even make it to McCarthy. It was a bit of a freak goal, its harsh to really blame it on anyone, but at the end of the day Carragher shouldnt have let it bounce and Finnan should have got to it first.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:52 am

Espionage wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:I agree, John, that Finnan seems to be suffering from the changes around him and, I would add, from Carragher's increased tentativeness of late.

Mick, I still wouldn't think that Paletta's the answer. Like Reina, we need to stick with Finnan and give him time to play his way into form. At the end of the day, he's the best RB we have and he'll surely remind us why again soon.

For those that haven't seen the goal, here's the link:

McCarthy Strike

It looks to me as though Riise (our LB in the first half, before he switched spots with Aurelio) was caught well upfield. Emerton produced a crisp pass to Bentley down our left flank, forcing Hyypia to charge across. Bentley's quick cross for Nonda (??) got over Carragher's head, bounced over Finnan's and fell nicely to McCarthy to slot home.

Individual errors were no doubt made on this goal and it'll take someone more expert in defensive duties than me to highlight them. From my perspective though, a few things are apparent:

1) the entire back line was caught cold by the pace of the counterattack: a crisp Emerton pass followed by an early cross. All four were scrambling back madly and, thus, failed to either prevent the cross or cut it out before it reached McCarthy.

2) Finnan might have done better with the ball. He seemed to be in no man's land--caught between helping Carragher with Nonda or tracking McCarthy at the back post. He also didn't seem to anticipate the flight of the ball well and got caught underneath the bounce. In fairness to him, he was sprinting back full tilt and didn't have a lot of time to compose himself and cut out the danger.

3) Reina also looked caught in no man's land. I'm not sure if he was coming to close Nonda down or whether he thought he could cut out the cross himself. In either case, he was off his line and scrambling back when it fell to McCarthy.

This goal seems like a carbon copy of a few we've conceded this season from crosses from the left (Galatasay and Everton come to mind) so something's clearly not working when our back four shifts left. Anyone up for analyzing the way these things are supposed to be defended for the edification of us all?

In all fairness Reina was in exactly the right position for defending the cross if the first man hadnt missed the ball. He had to do that, and rely that the ball wouldnt bounce and even make it to McCarthy. It was a bit of a freak goal, its harsh to really blame it on anyone, but at the end of the day Carragher shouldnt have let it bounce and Finnan should have got to it first.

I'd agree with that assessment.

He couldn't have known the ball would make it to McCarthy, and didn't have time to get back.

Anyone who knows anything about balance will appreciate that a 'keeper running backwards has absolutely no chance of making a save unless the ball goes straight to him. Momentum can be a swine sometimes.

Reina did everything he could, and had he run back, he'd have looked a tit as the ball would have just rolled past him. It's not his fault, if anything, it's Riise's for being totally caught out of position and putting JC and Finnan under pressure.

Oh, and it was a cracking cross, aswell.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:59 am

Back on the topic, no - you're not on your own Bigmick.

Finnan is struggling, and I'm not convinced it's anything to do with the playing personel.

Siting Gerrard's removal from the right hand side just doesn't fit, as Garcia - probably our least defensive player - had many matches at right midfield in Rafa's forst season, and Finnan was immense.

He is playing how I would have expected him to when he was awaiting a charge over his traffic accident.

Could it be that he is having personal problems, which unlike a Police investigation, is affecting his performance?

WHatever the reason, I hope he sorts it out soon, as aside from being a bloody magnificent player, he is by all accounts, a bloody good man aswell.

Good luck Steve.

by **Espionage** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:24 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Reina did everything he could, and had he run back, he'd have looked a tit as the ball would have just rolled past him. It's not his fault, if anything, it's Riise's for being totally caught out of position and putting JC and Finnan under pressure.

Oh, and it was a cracking cross, aswell.

I dont really think that its Riise's fault, as we play with wingbacks and he has to have the confidence to be able to go forward. In all honesty we have the personel to deal with that situation, it was a bullsh!t cross that bounced in the worst possible place.

As soon as I saw that goal I thought FFS: argueably Riise, Sammy, Carragher, Finnan and Reina are at fault, but they didnt really do anything wrong. It was a harsh and undeserved goal, but it happens....

Liverpool FC Forum

Steve finnan. - Am i the only one who is worried?

Who is online