Liverpool FC Forum

by **woof woof !** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:12 pm

Yield wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:If you're that concerned do something about it , don't just sit there whining.

same could be said about you.

F'uck off you tart , you haven't a clue as to where I've been or what I've done , don't waltz in here and start f'ucking talking to me about Afghanistan ,the Taliban and how the Christian right are just as bad . You're talking out of yer a'rse , just pi'ss off back to yer Chelsea forum.

:kungfu:

by **zarababe** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:32 pm

Ciggy wrote:With this soft @rse country tax payers paying to keep fecking hook hand one eye b@stard in prison, paying for his sermons, every friday in Finsbury Park, whilst preaching death to the west, kill all none muslims on our streets.
Whilst he lives off state benefits and sends his child support back to Afganistan.

No wonder we get pissed off.

lol that's tellen it like it is

Yeh as a tax payer I say deport all these scroungers and if they want their extreme way of life they can p*ss of outta here to the moon where a new colony can be established to host there needs, cos there's no-where on this earth where they'll find what they are lookin for. (I pay a lot of tax you know, I do)

The Taliban are a disgrace. When the Taliban took Kabul, they immediately forbade girls to go to school. Moreover, women were barred from working outside the home, precipitating a crisis in healthcare and education. Women were also prohibited from leaving their home without a male relative—those that did so risked being beaten, even shot, by officers of the "ministry for the protection of virtue and prevention of vice." A woman caught wearing fingernail polish may have had her fingertips chopped off. All this, according to the Taliban, was to safeguard women and their honor.

In contrast to their 'strict' beliefs, the Taliban profited from smuggling operations :glare:

(primarily electronics) and opium cultivation. Eventually they bowed to international pressure and cracked down on cultivation and by July 2000 were able to claim that they had cut world opium production by two-thirds. The trade produced a genertation of addicts.

These people represent no-one but themselves, cruel evil people who should be strung by the goolies till 'it 'falls off :angry:

by **JBG** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:44 pm

My own feeling on this subject - and its not going to win me many friends here - is that I don't see Osama Bin Laden as this cartoonish Dick Dastardly bad guy which many in the West do. George W. Bush is an infinitely greater danger to the safety and peace of the planet than Bin Laden ever could be.

Its often painted in the West that Bin Laden hates the west for religious and cultural reasons, that he thinks our way of life is decadent and unIslamic and the fact that we drink alcohol, eat pork, allow women equal status and that we are Christians is a reason in itself for wanting to attack and destroy us. It is true that Bin Laden and his ilk disagree with Western lifestyles and as such we are seen as infidels and in an ideal Bin Laden world, our "blasphemous" way of life should see us punished by Allah will and that we should be converted into good Muslims. However, I don't think Bin Laden is attacking the West for those reasons alone and Bin Laden is pragmatic and sane enough to realise that there will have to be some sort of happy medium and understanding between the religious.

Many in the West have got carried away with the notion that Bin Laden and other fundamentalists want to destroy us because of who we are. George Bush and Tony Blair would have us believed that September 11th was the result of Bin Laden hating "freedom" and our way of life.

September 11th didn't result because we are Christians and that there is an inherent flaw in the Muslim pyschology which causes them to attack us because we are Westerners and Christians. September 11th was a culmination of tensions in the Muslim world dating back to the end of the First World War and the Balfour Declaration in which Balfour called for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. Al Qaeda hate the US and Britain not because we sit around drinking beer after work, "degrade" women and worship Jesus, but because of what Muslims perceive as 80 years of humiliation and oppression by the West. The problems in Palestine, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia and Iraq are all a direct consequence of the collapse of Western Empires and the last death throes of European colonialism when Britain and France divided up the Arab world after the first world war, either by ruling directly themselves or imposing artificial kings or dictators on artificial countries, arming these tyrants and then turn a blind eye to the persecution by Western backed "strongmen" of Arab peoples. Both Britain and the US adopted this policy in Iran up until the Islamic Revolution of 1979, when the Shah was propped up by US/UK military supplies, financial and diplomatic assistance so as to ensure that the large and unhappy Persian people were kept under the thumb so as to keep things quiet in that part of the world and keep the oil flowing. When the Shah was deposed the US/UK turned Saddam into their strong man, until Saddam made the crass error in judgement of thinking he could take Kuwait as a reward for the sacrifice of the Iraqi people in tying down the Islamic Revolution for the best part of the decade and allowing the US get on with winning the Cold War.

Bin Laden doesn't want to destroy the west, he just wants the West out of the Middle East and allow Muslim people govern themselves and their resources, in much the same way as Europeans took to arms in the 1940s to fight Hitler.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:50 pm

JBG wrote:Bin Laden doesn't want to destroy the west, he just wants the West out of the Middle East and allow Muslim people govern themselves and their resources, in much the same way as Europeans took to arms in the 1940s to fight Hitler.

And he is right, foreign policy should not interfere with what others do in their countries, I agree.
But he was best friends with the Taliban they sheltered him and gave him protection.
He has also ordered the deaths of women and children in the middle east, Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan.
But none of this has anything to do with the US or the UK.

by **bunglemark2** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:54 pm

JBG - hell, man, you must have a hotline to Bin Laden or else a weird and wonderful way of knowing his deepest thoughts.....If you're quoting BL from a recorded interview, I stand corrected; if not, I believe the man is on a (dare I use the phrase !) "crusade" to convert the rest of us non-believers to Islam.....and blowing the sh!t out of people is not the best way of driving up the numbers of the faithful, I wouldn' think....

by **zarababe** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:10 pm

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, it don't need these fanatics to propagate ther brand to convert people. In fact they're brand will turn poeple away from the religion. Hell I'd give it up if that is what is really was about!

JBG draws on a fundamental issue, which I raised previously in this thread, about the frustrations that exist as a result of the weakness of arab nations themselves and the imposition of foreign polices which have resulted in 'divide and rule' outcomes for the people at the end of them.

JBG - eloquent and an important point.

by **JBG** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:18 pm

Bin Laden has never hid his thoughts and ambitions. He gave numerous interviews to Western journalists over the years and since he has gone underground he has made numerous broadcasts if anybody bothered to listen to him. He has given an extensive interview to Robert Fisk which can be read in Fisks book "The Battle for Civilisation".

As for the Taliban, you should remember that the Taliban were injected into Afghanistan by the Pakistani military - allies in the "War on Terror" - and the West didn't give a toss about the Taliban until 9/11.

As for Bin Laden killing people in the middle East - yes, thats true - but the US and its allies have killed infinitely more in the same region in the same period, both directly through warfare in Lebanon, Gaza, the West Bank and Iraq, through proxy (the Shah, Saddam), through neglect and shameful incitement (Bush Senior calling for Shia and Kurdish insurrections in 1991 and then failing to support the risings and allowing Saddam to use helicopters in the US/UK no fly zones, which resulted in Saddam killing at least 100,000 Shia and Kurds in the period of 1991 to 1993), through sanctions (more than half a million Iraqi children died because Madeliene Albright disgracefully stated that stopping medical supplies being sent to Iraq was a lesser of two evils and an acceptable loss), through Western supported militias in Lebanon, by arming Israel and by refusing to take action against Israel despite a long standing UN resolution deeming the Israeli occupation of the West Bank as being illegal and calling it to withdraw.

Bin Laden is a bad man but he's not a "monster" (like, for example, Saddam was) and history will hold him to be no more be held morally culpable than Bush Senior and Junior and Blair.

by **89-1159041913** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:22 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Yield wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:If you're that concerned do something about it , don't just sit there whining.

same could be said about you.

F'uck off you tart , you haven't a clue as to where I've been or what I've done , don't waltz in here and start f'ucking talking to me about Afghanistan ,the Taliban and how the Christian right are just as bad . You're talking out of yer a'rse , just pi'ss off back to yer Chelsea forum.

of course
i forgot that trying to put through legislation to push women into back street abortions was normal behaviour.
i forgot that invading countries, killing innocent women, men and children was normal behaviour.
i forgot that scaremoungring was normal behaviour.
i forgot that rigging elections was normal behaviour.

bush is just as bad as bin laden, both should be hung drawn and quartered.

bush as JBG has said is a threat to world peace just like that moron bin laden, only difference is bush is us president and bin laden isn't.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:36 pm

Yield wrote:i forgot that trying to put through legislation to push women into back street abortions was normal behaviour.
i forgot that invading countries, killing innocent women, men and children was normal behaviour.
i forgot that scaremoungring was normal behaviour.
i forgot that rigging elections was normal behaviour.

bush is just as bad as bin laden, both should be hung drawn and quartered.

bush as JBG has said is a threat to world peace just like that moron bin laden, only difference is bush is us president and bin laden isn't.

Abortion is up to ones self, its not forced onto anyone.
If a teenage girl is pregnant and doesnt wish to keep the child, or is a prostitute, or a rape victim then the choice is thiers Im not for abortion but its up to those individuals should they wish to have one.

No its not right invading countries and killing innocents the same as those that dwell in some countries think its ok to blow the sh[B[i[/B]te out of their fellow country men, women and children.

Scaremongering is not correct Bush does it so do terrorists.

Bush is as bad as Bin Laden you are correct but I would rather get along with America rather than be its foe.

If I was an American citizen I would want to know why Bin Laden was not brought to justice for 9-11, I would be going ape if one of my relatives or friends died in the WTC.

Instead this idiot when asked where Bin Laden was he said I dont know, and I dont really care, what a cracking president he is hey. No lets just go and bomb Iraq and capture Saddam something my father failed in doing and while we are at it let all the lunatics that Saddam kept relatively quite cause havoc in Iraq :glare:

by **metalhead** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:36 pm

JBG, I have to agree with everything you said mate! a 100% correct mate!

by **Judge** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:39 pm

jbg is bin laden. of course he would say all that

by **metalhead** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:43 pm

Judge wrote:jbg is bin laden. of course he would say all that

Judge, JBG has excellent points mate and they are merely facts! I don't think at all that Bin Ladin is going against the Americans because they are christians and their lifestyles is unislamic, its more politics than culture and religion. Because if Bin Ladin went against Christian culture and lifestyles, Bin Ladin would have bombed all the western countries isn't that true? Canada is very similar to the U.S, so why we don't hear any Terrorist attacks there? This is politics.

by **89-1159041913** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:56 pm

Ciggy wrote:Abortion is up to ones self, its not forced onto anyone.
If a teenage girl is pregnant and doesnt wish to keep the child, or is a prostitute, or a rape victim then the choice is thiers Im not for abortion but its up to those individuals should they wish to have one.

No its not right invading countries and killing innocents the same as those that dwell in some countries think its ok to blow the sh[B[i[/B]te out of their fellow country men, women and children.

Scaremongering is not correct Bush does it so do terrorists.

Bush is as bad as Bin Laden you are correct but I would rather get along with America rather than be its foe.

If I was an American citizen I would want to know why Bin Laden was not brought to justice for 9-11, I would be going ape if one of my relatives or friends died in the WTC.

Instead this idiot when asked where Bin Laden was he said I dont know, and I dont really care, what a cracking president he is hey. No lets just go and bomb Iraq and capture Saddam something my father failed in doing and while we are at it let all the lunatics that Saddam kept relatively quite cause havoc in Iraq

abortion in america is at the moment legal, however
the christian right which is what bush is an evalanglist
they want it banned so no woman can have abortion
yeah that shows just how much more
civilised neo-conservatives are to tyrants like
the taliban.

they are both as bad as each other and its funny how no
one pulls up bush when he said "america is on a christian crusade" to rid terrorism, that makes him just as bad, only
difference is he can hide behind his us predicancy.

by **89-1159041913** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:59 pm

metalhead wrote:
Judge wrote:jbg is bin laden. of course he would say all that

Judge, JBG has excellent points mate and they are merely facts! I don't think at all that Bin Ladin is going against the Americans because they are christians and their lifestyles is unislamic, its more politics than culture and religion. Because if Bin Ladin went against Christian culture and lifestyles, Bin Ladin would have bombed all the western countries isn't that true? Canada is very similar to the U.S, so why we don't hear any Terrorist attacks there? This is politics.

indeed, its the us' foriegn policy
and how they are always
interfering in other people's politics
aka iran.
bush is doing everything he can to make
the usa the ultimate super power
in the world.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:03 pm

yield, you are showing your age here mate, especially arguing with woof about these matters, some of us know who he is and where he has been, in fact he was probably in afghanistan before your dad was born.

you have to admit that comparing the taliban to someone denying abortion is feeble, the catholic church forbids it mate, and the use of condoms, are you going to put the catholic church on a par with the taliban now?

Liverpool FC Forum

Bin laden

Who is online