Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:40 pm

The stats from our four away league games:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,-67282,00.html
Corners: Sheff Utd 0 Liverpool 12
Goal Attempts: Sheff Utd 5 Liverpool 13
On Target: Sheff Utd 3 Liverpool 8

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,-67762,00.html
Corners: Everton 2 Liverpool 11
Goal Attempts: Everton 8 Liverpool 21
On Target: Everton 6 Liverpool 5

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,-68102,00.html
Corners: Chelsea 1 Liverpool 3
Goal Attempts: Chelsea 4 Liverpool 9
On Target: Chelsea 3 Liverpool 6

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,1885211,00.html
Corners: Bolton 1 Liverpool 10
Goal Attempts: Bolton 4 Liverpool 13
On Target: Bolton 3 Liverpool 6

TOTAL:
Corners: (Hosts) 4 Liverpool 36
Goal Attempts: (Hosts) 21 Liverpool 56
On Target: (Hosts) 15 Liverpool 25

And, lest we forget:
Goals: (Hosts) 7 Liverpool 1
Points: (Hosts) 10 Liverpool 1

This means that, across those four games, our hosts have converted one in three of their goal attempts (7 from 21) while we have converted one if 56 of ours. In other words, we need nearly nineteen times as many chances to score as our opposition do.....

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:47 pm

For the tallest team in the premiership with supposedly good crossers of the ball and 2 of the tallest strikers around our record from corners is abismal.

As for the attempts at goal, how many of those attempts of ours were from outside the box? I would guess a very high percentage. We need to be creating chances in the box, not just hoping that we get another super goal of the season one.

by **redmikey** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:50 pm

stmichael wrote:For years we were saying that we didn't have a strong enough squad and we were expecting too much from our key players ( Stevie G's legs in the F.a Cup Final?) Now he has increased the squad and is trying the rotation to see if he can save legs and take us to the next level. F#ck me, we have used every other excuse for not winning the league lets give it a go and see whether it kicks in. ITS ONLY OCTOBER and we have had the most difficult start out of all the teams by a country mile and we are ONLY SIX POINTS BEHIND.

The main problem so far has been that away from home, our finishing has been nothing short of shocking. Rotation is not at fault for established internationals missing chance after chance.

great shout saint mick

too many people are getting there opinions from sky and the daily rags instead having abit of faith and loyalty,

by **Redman in wales** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:57 pm

stmichael wrote:The stats from our four away league games:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,-67282,00.html
Corners: Sheff Utd 0 Liverpool 12
Goal Attempts: Sheff Utd 5 Liverpool 13
On Target: Sheff Utd 3 Liverpool 8

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,-67762,00.html
Corners: Everton 2 Liverpool 11
Goal Attempts: Everton 8 Liverpool 21
On Target: Everton 6 Liverpool 5

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,-68102,00.html
Corners: Chelsea 1 Liverpool 3
Goal Attempts: Chelsea 4 Liverpool 9
On Target: Chelsea 3 Liverpool 6

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,,1885211,00.html
Corners: Bolton 1 Liverpool 10
Goal Attempts: Bolton 4 Liverpool 13
On Target: Bolton 3 Liverpool 6

TOTAL:
Corners: (Hosts) 4 Liverpool 36
Goal Attempts: (Hosts) 21 Liverpool 56
On Target: (Hosts) 15 Liverpool 25

And, lest we forget:
Goals: (Hosts) 7 Liverpool 1
Points: (Hosts) 10 Liverpool 1

This means that, across those four games, our hosts have converted one in three of their goal attempts (7 from 21) while we have converted one if 56 of ours. In other words, we need nearly nineteen times as many chances to score as our opposition do.....

those stats are incredible to read and digest, but converting chances and scoring isn't our only problem...

We've conceded 7 in those 4 games. Tighter at the back and we wouldn't be chasing the game so much (dodgy linesmen aside) In all those games the opposition scored first and they have been able to defend a lead, making it harder for us to score

by **Espionage** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:12 pm

bigmick wrote:
Espionage wrote:These arguements are just pathetic.......

You mention our winning streak last season, do you think that if we went on a winning streak now, Rafa would still make the same amount of changes? Of course not! At the moment there is no obvious choice for some positions and I dont buy the bullsh!t that Gerrard cant play on the left, so that shouldnt even count as a change.

Why is it that its Rafa's fault that we lost to Everton and Sheffield, wasnt it the players that lost the game? Our players have been lacking in elementary finishing and have made a few too many uncharacteristic errors. So it makes no sense to have a go at Rafa.

Hmmm I don't know about pathetic. You may disagree with the arguments but they sre not "pathetic" surely?

In terms of the winning streak last season the point surely is which came first, the unchanged team or the winning run? It's rather like a chicken and egg I guess.

"Would rafa still make the changes if we went on a run? of course not". Well I suppose one could argue that as we had just beaten Spurs, Newcastle and Galatasaray that we were on something of a run before Saurday already and the changes still came so I think we can put that one to bed once and for all.

"No obvious choice for some positions". Again it's a matter of opinion but I take your point. "I don't buy this bullsh!t that Gerrard can't play on the left" is another opinion, but I think most of us who have said we wouldn't play him there are not saying that he can't play there (he could probably play centre-half if you asked him to), we are merely saying he is less effective there than in his favoured position. Maybe you could comment on whether or not you agree with that.

Of course it's not the managers fault as such when we lose, as it's the players who are actually out on the pitch. In some games it's nobody's fault as bad luck or bad decisions can rob you of a result as we've had a couple of times this season. The rotation debate is not pathetic though, tedious maybe but not pathetic.

Change a team and it has an effect upon it, that much is fact. Some would say that the effect is minimal, some would say it is major. Some would say the effect is long-term positive, some would take the opposite view. All opinions on this cannot be "pathetic". If you are getting bored with the whole question (as I certainly am) then don't get involved in the discussion.

Good post, I agree with you on lots of things but I just hate it when it seems that people never give Rafa credit for the benefits of a system that he has implemented.

I guess I just get frustrated when people seem to shrug off the fact that we are playing well and not getting results. You can argue that match fitness would improve finishing and the other way that more rotation would mean better finishing as player are not as tired until the cows come home. I think that i just hate this topic because I get the impression that people would never compain if we were playing badly and getting results, that is the time that Rafa would need to come under scrutiny. But instead we are putting pressure on Rafa when I think its the fault of players (and lady luck).

I respect you as a poster on this forum and I think that i misread some of what you said earlier and apologise.

by **hello_red** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:59 pm

Red man in wales i have been thinking about what you said early in the thread, i would actually have to agree. they should but they cant! also what st michael showed us about the corner/chnaces stats thats quite worrying, it shows that our midfield is dominating everything but the strikers arent i would say working hard enough?

Ian

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:09 pm

Certainly no apology needed in my direction mate. Tell the truth I actually thought you were calling the Rock pathetic and not me

The one thing I would disagree with you and a couple of other posters on is whether or not we are actually playing well, either Away or at Home. While we have unquestionably been unlucky to lose three away, you could equally argue we were very fortunate not lose at Sheffield United. Only an extremely dodgy penalty rescued us there. At Home, we could concieveably have been two down before we scored against Tottenham, Bowyer should have levelled the scores ten minutes from time for West Ham and only a last-ditch save from reina ensured that we went for the second leg against Haifa with a lead. I'm not necessarily saying we were lucky to prevail in these games, but neither do I accept that we are playing really well and that bad luck is the reason we keep getting beat on the road.

I think in terms of cohesive passing and movement we are some way short of our best at the moment, similarly in ball retention and defending. Clearly you could add finishing to that list but I really believe that to kid ourselves that we are actually playing well and that it is just a question of waiting for lady luck to switch her allegiance would be a huge mistake.

Luck or not, the Liverpool team which finished off last season with a winning streak which accounted for both Manchester United and Chelsea would see off the team as it's currently playing without a problem. That Liverpool team would have come back against Bolton on Saturday. Had that Liverpool team gone two down it may have lost the game but Bolton would have been absolutely hanging on in the last twenty minutes. As it was, I didn't think we looked like scoring in the last half hour TBH.

by **Espionage** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:29 pm

bigmick wrote:Certainly no apology needed in my direction mate. Tell the truth I actually thought you were calling the Rock pathetic and not me

The one thing I would disagree with you and a couple of other posters on is whether or not we are actually playing well, either Away or at Home. While we have unquestionably been unlucky to lose three away, you could equally argue we were very fortunate not lose at Sheffield United. Only an extremely dodgy penalty rescued us there. At Home, we could concieveably have been two down before we scored against Tottenham, Bowyer should have levelled the scores ten minutes from time for West Ham and only a last-ditch save from reina ensured that we went for the second leg against Haifa with a lead. I'm not necessarily saying we were lucky to prevail in these games, but neither do I accept that we are playing really well and that bad luck is the reason we keep getting beat on the road.

I think in terms of cohesive passing and movement we are some way short of our best at the moment, similarly in ball retention and defending. Clearly you could add finishing to that list but I really believe that to kid ourselves that we are actually playing well and that it is just a question of waiting for lady luck to switch her allegiance would be a huge mistake.

Luck or not, the Liverpool team which finished off last season with a winning streak which accounted for both Manchester United and Chelsea would see off the team as it's currently playing without a problem. That Liverpool team would have come back against Bolton on Saturday. Had that Liverpool team gone two down it may have lost the game but Bolton would have been absolutely hanging on in the last twenty minutes. As it was, I didn't think we looked like scoring in the last half hour TBH.

lol..... i always seem to get you 2 mixed up.
Damn i hate living in Australia as i when I come online tomorrow morning I lose where I am and then I end up waiting for another 24 hours before i reply to someone.

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