Liverpool FC Forum

by **Redman in wales** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:31 pm

I started writing this in the Bolton Thread, but its too general and not Bolton specific… besides I wanted your views…..

Problem 1 - rotation in defence

this does not work. full stop. Rafa has now changed the team for 94 consecutive games, and while last season it wasnt an issue... last season our defence was fairly constant:

Finnan Carra Hyypia Riise

ok kromkamp and traore got games when others needed a rest, but that was our consistent back four and gave us so much positive consistency - and that is a large part of the reason we went 11 games without conceding.

I understand hyypia is getting on so agger is given a chance, and i understand about keeping players fresh. But rotation in the defence is not the way to go.

Problem 2: The left wing.

Kewell is injured. not much we can do about that. Gonzo and aurellio- havnt really sparked yet, but give them time. We were all expecting great things from both these players, but rotation doesnt help them settle in either.

FFS stop playing stevie on the left, for the good of the team he needs to be central or on the right.

My choice would be to have Riise as our main-stay LB then play Aurellio LW for 2 games then Gonzo LW for 2 games... see if we can see a good partnership.

Problem 3: The preferred front 2

As we saw with Nando last season. – playing bellers every game week in week out doesn’t mean he will score or go on a scoring run. To win games you need goals. The best way of getting goals is to play your in form strikers.

Peter Crouch has scored 13 goals in 10 games this season if you include England matches. For Liverpool alone he has started 5 games and scored 5 goals. The man can’t play without finding the net. He’s on the bench for 4 consecutive games while kuyt and bellamy are paired up together: PSV, Newcastle, Chelsea and spurs. Crouch then starts against Galatasaray, scores 2… and is dropped back to the bench again. – That’s not squad rotation, that’s more like favouritism. (I know it isn’t – its obvious rafa wanted kuyt bellamy as his 1st choice strike force) – but enough is enough

I read a comment on here a week or so ago about bellamy, and someone pointed out that in the old days if you weren’t scoring you’d be put into the reserves to find your scoring touch again. – a good plan me thinks

My solution: Play the in-form crouch paired with the in-form kuyt. Have fowler on the bench – as he still knows where the goal is and as he showed us at the tail end of last season can still put the ball in the back of the net. Play bellers in the reserves to get his confidence back up – hat-trick against wolves in the reserves etc get him happy about playing again… then bobs your uncle he’ll be ok again.

Problem 4: The central midfield

Stevie G, momo, Alonso - 3 into 2 doesn't go (unless you play 3-5-2)

This is a slightly smaller problem than the others, and can easily be solved. First choice midfield: Xabi and momo in the centre when stevie's on the right. When you want to rest any of them, put pennant on the right, leaving the other 2 in the middle

by **oakton** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:46 pm

you might want to add that we are having problems with corner kicks, seems like we don't take full advantage from it and most of time the kicks are totally ineffective.

by **onizukaeikichi** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:54 pm

we concede a lot from set piece and when crosses are whipped into our box, our defenders doesnnt looks convincing and comfortable in defending it nowadays

by **PabloAimar** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:10 pm

y do stevie g's corner's NEVER clear the first man?

firstly, i think we were robbed today by a rugby team so this isnt a knee-jerk post.

rafa needs to decide whether he wants to pick a system which suits his best players (3-5-2 with SG, MS and XA in centre midfield) or pick the best players for his system (ONE of either gerrard or sissoko playing alongside alonso). he seems to not be interested in doing either at the moment and i personally think he's just being stubborn to proove the media wrong in their theories on his rotation policy and steven gerrard's position at the club.

as much as i dont think crouch is our main striker, at the moment he is the only one scoring so yes, he should be starting every game. rafa is playing bellamy in the hope that he starts firing to get his confidence up but on the evidence of today's performance, this run of mis-firing by bellamy is only having an adverse affect on the striker. he didnt look like the goal scorer we know he is the few times he had the ball at feet in front of goal today.

because of the players we now have at the club, it would make sense to try playing 3-5-2 more often to see if it will work. It means we still have 2 strikers on the pitch and would still be a very attack minded system if played properly...

Dudek

Carra Hyypia Agger

Pennant Riise

Alonso Sissoko
Gerrard

Crouch Kuyt

by **welsh wizzard** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:55 pm

Some good points there rotation is an fecking joke this early in the season, lawro in todays Mirror was a good read going on about Rafa's rotation policy. Back in Lawro's day he said they were playing 70 games a season most players even playing every game. He states Rafa should start the likes of Reina,Finnan,Risse,Carra,Alonso Sissoko,Gerrard,Kuite and one of Bellamy or Crouch at moment crouch in my eyes these are his best players who need to play every game except for injuries. Then Agger and Hyppia and gonzales and Aurellio fighting it out for other positions.

Bellamy at the moment is looking like a player with something else on his mind. It could possibly be this court case, but putting him in the reserves believe me don't thinkl it will go down with Craig to well. Soon as he has this court case out the way he will find his feet. Went through similar spell at Blackburn then couldn't stop scoring.

So Rafa come on play a settled team with them 9 players playing week in week out, get them settled then we will start winning game after game again.

by **PabloAimar** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:38 pm

im all for rotation, but not when in involves 5/6 new players who havent known each other or anyone else at the club for 5 minutes!

if we get the basis of a world class squad, and the players have been together for a year or so, then rotate all you want rafa! but please just swallow your pride and STOP!

by **alessandromagno** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:02 pm

Enough is enough! Quite simply, Rafa's rotation policy isn't working.

by **nifan82** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:58 am

Its quite obvious that rotation isnt working, so why cant Rafa see this? It hurts me to say this, but the likes of Chelski and Man U have a settled team and it shows in there results!!

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:23 pm

Rotation is not the be all and end all of our problems though it has contributed without question in my opinion. Momentum and confidence in sport are wonderful things, which is why we can reel off the wins at Home and yet we are still searching for our first good result on the road. I've done to death the simple fact that we should have played a proper team in the Haifa Home game and the Sheffield United away game and we wouldn't have been in this predicament today. Monotonous and repetitive it maybe, but a glaringly obvious fact it remains.

Those on here who accused the detractors of overreacting "the league title isn't decided after one game FFS" were wrong. Those who said "hindsight is a wonderful thing" and slagged off the moaners (and then bizarrely are on here after yesterdays game and moaning about rotation themselves) were wrong. We should have taken those games seriously, not rotated when players had barely played a competitive game and got some momentum, some belief and crucially, our first away win in the Prem but we didn't so now we need a solution.

Rafa has realized (in my view anyway) that he made a blunder and had rotated more sensibly since, though still a bit too much for me. FWIW I personally didn't have a problem with the team picked yesterday (with the exception of the baffling tendancy to start with Gerrard left side, and then to ask Bellamy to play there as we decided to return to the unfailingly insuccessful 4-5-1 and copy Bolton). The trouble is though, momentum is hard to stop when you play against it and hard to start when you've fecked it up. As soon as the second goal went in yesterday the game was over. The belief and desire seeped from our team before your eyes and the folly of our previous random selection policy was clearly demonstrated.

We really are at a low ebb away from Home and step one has to be making ourselves difficult to beat at the very least. To achieve this, you start with your givens, the square pegs in square holes and don't try and be too clever. When you consider that you also need to keep the ball up the top of the pitch, there is only one debateable selection in my opinion and one debateable tactiacl choice. The selection conundrum is whether you start with Hyppia or Agger, the tactical one is whther Riise plays left-back or left mid, with Aurelio playing in the other slot.

The team should look something like this,

Reina

Finnan Carragher Agger Aurelio

Gerrard Sissoko Alonso Riise

Kuyt Crouch

It's not particularly ground breaking or clever, but if I was playing against Liverpool that is the team I would least like them to select. It's the one that will do for me. Please, NEVER EVER play our captain on the left. It simply doesn't work and IMHo he's not being a prima-donna getting p!ssed off with it, anybody of his talent who wants to win the game would do the same.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:28 pm

i agree with what you are saying mick, just one point i want to raise. we went through this last season so rafa should have realised then that constant rotation doesnt work but he tried it again. we shouldnt be in this position

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:35 pm

peewee wrote:i agree with what you are saying mick, just one point i want to raise. we went through this last season so rafa should have realised then that constant rotation doesnt work but he tried it again. we shouldnt be in this position

I agree with what you are saying on that one mate but there you go. We are in the somewhat strange position of having a squad which all of us would accept is infinately superior this season to last, but of having a team which is nowhere near as consistent. Squad strength should be an asset which comes into play later in the season, when injuries strike and when players become tired. Squad strength which enables a manager to play Championship manager in real life is not going to do us any favours at all.

Like I said, I think Rafa has realised he made a mistake but it's not as simple as picking largely sensible teams from now on. Our belief away from home is very fragile and our momentum non-existent so in a way we are still paying for our early season silliness. Fortunately for us, other teams are doing their best to make sure we are still competitive by dropping points left right and centre as well so all is not lost. Even Arsenal are getting themselves back into it with some decent performances.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:40 pm

i watch the games on espn in asia and one of the pundits out here is steve macmahon, he is so p1ssed of with it mick its funny to watch him every week. at first i thought 'shut up moaning steve' but looking back every thing he has been saying is correct.

he is amazed that gerrard is on the left, he is amazed that crouch isnt playing. every week he has to predict the score and always for the away games he has us down to struggle and lose

by **murphy0151** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:57 pm

bigmick wrote:Rotation is not the be all and end all of our problems though it has contributed without question in my opinion. Momentum and confidence in sport are wonderful things, which is why we can reel off the wins at Home and yet we are still searching for our first good result on the road. I've done to death the simple fact that we should have played a proper team in the Haifa Home game and the Sheffield United away game and we wouldn't have been in this predicament today. Monotonous and repetitive it maybe, but a glaringly obvious fact it remains.

Those on here who accused the detractors of overreacting "the league title isn't decided after one game FFS" were wrong. Those who said "hindsight is a wonderful thing" and slagged off the moaners (and then bizarrely are on here after yesterdays game and moaning about rotation themselves) were wrong. We should have taken those games seriously, not rotated when players had barely played a competitive game and got some momentum, some belief and crucially, our first away win in the Prem but we didn't so now we need a solution.

Rafa has realized (in my view anyway) that he made a blunder and had rotated more sensibly since, though still a bit too much for me. FWIW I personally didn't have a problem with the team picked yesterday (with the exception of the baffling tendancy to start with Gerrard left side, and then to ask Bellamy to play there as we decided to return to the unfailingly insuccessful 4-5-1 and copy Bolton). The trouble is though, momentum is hard to stop when you play against it and hard to start when you've fecked it up. As soon as the second goal went in yesterday the game was over. The belief and desire seeped from our team before your eyes and the folly of our previous random selection policy was clearly demonstrated.

We really are at a low ebb away from Home and step one has to be making ourselves difficult to beat at the very least. To achieve this, you start with your givens, the square pegs in square holes and don't try and be too clever. When you consider that you also need to keep the ball up the top of the pitch, there is only one debateable selection in my opinion and one debateable tactiacl choice. The selection conundrum is whether you start with Hyppia or Agger, the tactical one is whther Riise plays left-back or left mid, with Aurelio playing in the other slot.

The team should look something like this,

Reina

Finnan Carragher Agger Aurelio

Gerrard Sissoko Alonso Riise

Kuyt Crouch

It's not particularly ground breaking or clever, but if I was playing against Liverpool that is the team I would least like them to select. It's the one that will do for me. Please, NEVER EVER play our captain on the left. It simply doesn't work and IMHo he's not being a prima-donna getting p!ssed off with it, anybody of his talent who wants to win the game would do the same.

Like Zidane, like Ronaldinho lol

by **89-1159041913** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:08 pm

your problem is too much rotation,
rotation is perfect when a few players are changed each match
it's when you start taking key players out and playing them
out of position.
the defence of any team shouldnt be changed as much
as rafa has changed yours. i cant understand why rafa
has changed the back four which last season was one
of the best in england, there was communication between
the defence and the keeper.
alonso and sissoko were great in the middle and gerrard was great on the right.
youve improved uptop, so why all the change?
i can understand if its late in the season and youre forced to
rotate because there are a total of 80 games bein
played but mass rotation this early?
is beyond a joke and that is your problem.
rafa is trying to fit too many players in a formation and trying
2 keep the players sweet.

y you just didnt keep the same team that beat spurs and newcastle is beyond me, them two matches showed the right balance between your players.

still im not going 2 complain if it means an advantage for chelsea ill take it. haha!

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:13 pm

With the greatest respect Murph, Gerrard is an entirely different type of footballer to both. When Rafa used Ronaldhino as an example it was proably a little tongue in cheek. Zidane looks to dictate the flow of the game from midfield. Many people commented that at his best he barely seemed to break sweat, such was his command of the football and strength on it. He dictated the tempo with deft little plasses and steers.

Ronaldinho is probably the best player in the World and while his left-foot may not be his strongest, my suspicion is that it's stronger than Gerrards. He too plays a different style to gerrard in a team which relies on patient build-up and ball retention to open teams up.

Gerrard on the other hand is all about an explosive influence. On the ball he ignites the touch paper of the game, quickening the pace with a give and go. He also knocks in a great cross and hits an explosive shot, both with his right foot not his left. He is less about intricacies in and ariound the centre circle and more about being a power surging game breaker threatening the oppositions back line.

Ultimately though, why and how he can't seem to play there is by the by to some extent. Similarly, the fact that other so-called "World beater" players before him have managed to be as effective there is something of an irrelavence. What matters most, and what overrides all other considerations in my opinion is that he is our best player by a country mile and we should be looking to get him on the ball in areas where he is most effective. Clearly he is not as effective down the left hand side as he is down the right, so therefore I wouldn't play him there.

There have been many Liverpool managers in the past who have been successful while preaching simplicity. While acknowledging that the game has changed somewhat, my suspicion is that playing your best player in a position which allows him to function at somewhere near his optimum they would consider to be an absolute must. I think they would be correct.

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