Liverpool FC Forum

by **afs66** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:33 am

EddieC wrote:
afs66 wrote:
Woollyback wrote:When was the last time a Christian blew himself up in a crowded public train to get his point across?

When was the last time a Sikh flew a passenger jet into an office building?

When was the last time a Buddhist burnt down a mosque?

When was the last time a Hindu murdered a nun doing humanitarian work?

When was the last time an Jew destroyed an embassy over a cartoon?

When was the last time an atheist passed a death sentence on one of his own citizens for not conforming to his belief system?

Does Howard Kendall blame the middle east crisis on Liverpool FC?

Let me ask some questions mate.And dont worry, i’ll answer those myself.

Q:Which religion’s innocent people were last butchered in the heart of Europe(Bosnia Herzegovina)?Which religion’s innocent women were last raped in the heart of Europe(Bosnia Herzegovina)?Which religion’s innocent children were last hanged up in the heart of Europe(Bosnia Herzegovina)? Which religion’s innocent pregnant women were last stabed up in the heart of Europe(Bosnia Herzegovina)?
A: Islam

Q:Which religion’s innocent houses were last bombed mercilessly in Iraq? Which religion’s innocent men,women,children were last become homeless and helpless in Iraq .Which religion’s country was tumbled to pieces?
A: Islam

Q: Which religion’s country was occupied in Middle East and which religion’s people are continuously being killed in Paletsine?
A: Islam

Q:Which religion’s country were last razed for days in Lebanon?Which religions innocent men,women,children were last abandoned to helpless,to hunger, to aridity by United Nations in Lebanon?
A: Islam
And i dont want to mention about Afghanistan, Chechnya, East Turkestan,...etc.. All of them are Muslims.

Anyhow, I am trying not to be prejudiced and i hope that one day all the world will try not to be prejudiced.

afs66, the difference is everything Woollyback mentioned was done in the name of Islam, everything you mentioned wasn't.

You might try and argue that the Israel/Palestine issue is about religion, and while the root cause of it is, you are talking about Israel killing Palestinians, and when this has happened it has been in retaliation for Israeli deaths, not because they were Muslims. And if you want to get technical about it, the Jews had the land robbed off them, they were living there before Islam existed.

What happened in Bosnia was atrocious, I don't deny it, but it was a civil war over who had control of the country, nothing to do with religion. The fact that one of the sides happened to be Islamic doesn't make it a holy war.

People can argue what the war in Iraq was really about, but it definately wasn't about religion. If it was, we wouldn't be letting a Muslim parliament run the country.

Chechnya again, has nothing to do with religion. The region has a high level of natural resources that the Russians don't want to lose. This is wrong yes, but it is not an affront on Islam.

None of the points you made involved Christians/Jews/Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists attacking others to enforce their religious beliefs on them. Every instance that Woollyback cited did.

End of.

I mentioned the point that the people who were killed mercilessly or are being killed mercilessly, aren’t just Christians or Americans or British or etc…
You said the reasons of the wars which I had mentioned. And you said those weren’t in the name of a Religion. Ok, I assume you are right about the reasons.
1)Lets name the reason of those butcheries that I had mentioned, are for “Democracy and Freedom”.
2)And lets name the reason of terror events which Woollback mentioned, are for “Islam”.

At this time, I must remind something. Majority of posts in this thread are blaming Islam about austereness and mercilessness according to ideas in “2”. And I must remind another point that those people who had killed innocent people in ‘2’ , aren’t accepted as “Muslims” in the world of Islam. Nonetheless, majority of you are blaming Islam.

Now, don’t you think there is something wrong? Because, majority of you never blame “Democracy and Freedom(in ‘1’)” for being austereness and mercilessness. For ex. If someone opened a thread about “Democracy and Freedom” and if he said “ hey!! democracy and freedom are killing people, lets blame all democratic regimes”, would you behave the same as this thread?
By the way, I am trying to be a little ironic above. Actually I meant that your opinions about Islam and Muslims are wrong. Because you are making the events general, in despite of we(muslims) say that those terrorists cant be Muslims.

by **afs66** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:37 am

metalhead wrote:By the way afs66 Ramadan Kareem! I hope you are having a wonderful Ramadan, I am enjoying it.. its a wonderful month.

and Ramadan Kareem to any Muslims on this forum too.

Same to you dude. Thank you.

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:09 am

afs66 wrote:
metalhead wrote:By the way afs66 Ramadan Kareem! I hope you are having a wonderful Ramadan, I am enjoying it.. its a wonderful month.

and Ramadan Kareem to any Muslims on this forum too.

Same to you dude. Thank you.

Happy Ramadan to you Metalhead & afs66 :buttrock

I dont know the ins and outs of all of this TBH, and really its moved away from the initial topic of Bin Laden.

As far as I can see it both sides of the arguement are stubborn to their side. And I doubt a few words on a forum are going to alter anyones perspective on things. Infact it may only enhance their original beliefs, and TBH I'm with Woollyback and Peewee on this, simply because of the way I was brought up.
I'm gonna be quite frank here, and say that I havent met many Muslims (in England) but the ones I have met have been mostly rude. I'm not going to generalise Muslim people, that wouldnt be right. But when your standing on English soil being told by Muslims that 'we're here to take over parlimant and Britain', we've already got Leicester, Bradford, Leeds, Luton and so on, it makes my blood boil. I really couldnt give a f.uck what they do in there homeland, (& Britain) isnt it when they talk like about our way of life and what they intend to do in the UK . Especially when young, so-called 'British Muslims' are being brainwashed to go and train in these terroist groups in the middle-east, and comeback and take part in things like the London bombings. They call Britain home when it suits them, ie to claim doll and whatever, but then bomb it when told to. I'm sorry but that doesnt bode well with me, like I said its not all Muslims but these fanatics are giving you a bad name. And sometimes it would be nice to see the genuine Muslim people do something more notable to stop these f.ucked up people.
One thing I will generalise with Muslims, is that every other culture or belief has to tread on eggshells around them in fear of triggering some sort of Political correctness campaign, that states...... ' you cant do that blah blah blah ' this f.ucks me off too.

I'm not racist, just religousist !!

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:10 am

afs66 wrote:By the way, I am trying to be a little ironic above. Actually I meant that your opinions about Islam and Muslims are wrong. Because you are making the events general, in despite of we(muslims) say that those terrorists cant be Muslims.

If that's your opinion, mate, and the general opinion of all God-fearing and decent law abiding Muslims, then why are these terrorists not cut down by their own kind ? I know that sounds a little simplistic, but what about the likes of that Muslim "cleric" in East London who heckled John Reid, and labeled him as an "enemy of Islam" ? Or that fruitcake Chaudri ? Does he represent Islam in all its glory ? If not, why has he not been cut down by his own ?
If the Muslim comunity is not seen to dampen and eliminate such a call to arms and the declaration of jihad on all non-Muslims, then it's only natural that this continues

by **afs66** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:34 am

I dont have any information about East London and what John Reid did. But there is a fact you must know that there is no authority in the "Islam World" to be able to declare the "Jihad".

by **PhiLFC** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:53 am

afs66 wrote:I dont have any information about East London and what John Reid did. But there is a fact you must know that there is no authority in the "Islam World" to be able to declare the "Jihad".

I'll tell you one thing afs66 - your written english is becoming excellent

by **afs66** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:02 pm

PhiLFC wrote:
afs66 wrote:I dont have any information about East London and what John Reid did. But there is a fact you must know that there is no authority in the "Islam World" to be able to declare the "Jihad".

I'll tell you one thing afs66 - your written english is becoming excellent

Thank you Phill

There is only 1 person who can understand me in this forum is you

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:05 pm

we all understand you, we just dont all agree with you

by **PhiLFC** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:19 pm

peewee wrote:we all understand you, we just dont all agree with you

But that's okay though isn't it peewee? It's healthy to have disagreements and be able to have different opinions and to be able to talk about them. Metalhead, Zarababe, afs66 and others have stood their ground and backed up their beliefs and so have we. We're all stronger for it mate.

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:22 pm

no complaints here phil, apart from being accused of being racist for no reason

by **PhiLFC** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:28 pm

peewee wrote:no complaints here phil, apart from being accused of being racist for no reason

Yeah that's fair enough peewee but you stood your ground didn't you - good man :buttrock

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:32 pm

i just tried to make my point calmly and logically phil, i must be getting old

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:50 pm

zarababe wrote:Bin Laden does NOT represent the 'muslim world' indeed, for most people whether they are muslims or not, this is a lunatic using the 'name ' of religion to justify the actions he and his band of 'not so' merry men carry out. It is in all our interests for these 'lunes' to disappear, for they degrade my faith and sully its name.

No religion propagates violence, suicide bombings, torture and evil. However ALL religions are open to interpretation because the challenge for those who follow any 'ism' is to find the right way and understand what that journey entails. Unforunately this means that there are those who will then use unambiguity as the means for irrational behaviours which actually go against the true tenents of that faith.

For me the true values of Islam, kindness towards others, humanitarianism, charity and goodwill towards all, exists in 'abundance' in the western world. Islamic values are everyones values really. The middle east despite its problems, some of them self inflicted, rarely displays these 'values'. Herein lies the irony, frustrated nations, governed by tyrants and monarchy's who lavish themsleves with the luxuries of life, while the majority live in poverty. Fuel is added to the fires that rage through the foriegn policies of the west, which deliver divide and rule outcomes, and further injustices in the guise of a war torn annhilated Iraq and unresolved Palestinian situation, which the tyrants and monarchs, sit by and passively allow (infact can do little about so inept and inadequte they are).

I think that for those of us who are muslims on these pages, we do not need to defend our faith, for being muslim and living wherever we do, is hopefully not a reason of conflict rather one of reconciliation, personal and social gratification.

For those who are not muslim, there needs to be recognition that there is a 'fundamental' difference between those who distort the true teachings of our faith, and those of us who also find the actions and propaganda in the name of our religion totally abhorant. Lets not tarnish all with one brush and live as what we are on here, Liverpool supporters not clerics, fanatics and lunes.

The Quran teaches us; "let there be no compulsion in religion". Respect for other faiths and people's beliefs is an utmost requirement and challenge for us in our faith. One, that outwardly, the 'muslim world' is struggling with, but one which most moderates would argue is the only way.. the way of and to peace - the literal meaning of Islam. No-one is compelled to be a muslim, christian or anything - do what you must to live and 'let-live', in that is true freedom.

Exactly Zara.

I have absolutely no problem with Muslims who actually adhere to the true essence of Islam. (Infact, I had a curry in my own home with a Muslim mate on Saturday - which was hotter than a ball of fire on a summers day, btw!

)

I come across as very intolerant, and I am when it comes to people like Bin Laden and his ilk. Who isn't?

The fact is, though, that I like to give people in the real world the chance to show their true colours, rather than jump to the conclusions you lot see on here. (It's only for fun, peeps.)

9 times out of 10, it is foreigners who actually come across as the more friendly people, whereas around my area, a lot of English lads my age are dickheads.

I honestly have nothing against any religion or race unless it has a problem with me, or something I care about.

Tolerance breeds tolerance, and away from this forum (Because I can't give up insulting dumb-punk Sao Paulo/Bitter, etc fans, now can I!?!

), that's what we all should show.

Bet you never thought you'd hear me saying that.

by **LFC #1** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:15 pm

Someone's busted into Lando's gaff and satrted psoting under his name :Oo:

by **metalhead** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:13 pm

zarababe wrote:Bin Laden does NOT represent the 'muslim world' indeed, for most people whether they are muslims or not, this is a lunatic using the 'name ' of religion to justify the actions he and his band of 'not so' merry men carry out. It is in all our interests for these 'lunes' to disappear, for they degrade my faith and sully its name.

No religion propagates violence, suicide bombings, torture and evil. However ALL religions are open to interpretation because the challenge for those who follow any 'ism' is to find the right way and understand what that journey entails. Unforunately this means that there are those who will then use unambiguity as the means for irrational behaviours which actually go against the true tenents of that faith.

For me the true values of Islam, kindness towards others, humanitarianism, charity and goodwill towards all, exists in 'abundance' in the western world. Islamic values are everyones values really. The middle east despite its problems, some of them self inflicted, rarely displays these 'values'. Herein lies the irony, frustrated nations, governed by tyrants and monarchy's who lavish themsleves with the luxuries of life, while the majority live in poverty. Fuel is added to the fires that rage through the foriegn policies of the west, which deliver divide and rule outcomes, and further injustices in the guise of a war torn annhilated Iraq and unresolved Palestinian situation, which the tyrants and monarchs, sit by and passively allow (infact can do little about so inept and inadequte they are).

I think that for those of us who are muslims on these pages, we do not need to defend our faith, for being muslim and living wherever we do, is hopefully not a reason of conflict rather one of reconciliation, personal and social gratification.

For those who are not muslim, there needs to be recognition that there is a 'fundamental' difference between those who distort the true teachings of our faith, and those of us who also find the actions and propaganda in the name of our religion totally abhorant. Lets not tarnish all with one brush and live as what we are on here, Liverpool supporters not clerics, fanatics and lunes.

The Quran teaches us; "let there be no compulsion in religion". Respect for other faiths and people's beliefs is an utmost requirement and challenge for us in our faith. One, that outwardly, the 'muslim world' is struggling with, but one which most moderates would argue is the only way.. the way of and to peace - the literal meaning of Islam. No-one is compelled to be a muslim, christian or anything - do what you must to live and 'let-live', in that is true freedom.

Good post zarababe! well put.

Ok back to Bin Ladin

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