Liverpool FC Forum

john craig wrote:

Good Bob wrote:Carragher, Terry and Lampard all have similar level's of ability. You're lack of appriciation between the different levels and the tactical play at club level and international level proves you haven't played the game to a decent standard.

Great players will always be more important than great tactics if the balance is right.

My 'lack of appreciation of different levels of play at club level and International level' Which proves I have not played football to a high level

My suspicion is Stu, that I would pi.ss all over you on a football field, even with the broken foot I have at the moment, but that's beside the point as the chance to do that will most likely never come around.  It's throwaway comments like that you've made above that causes many forum members to think you're a to be honest.  I doubt you've played for a professional club, and I'll bet my house that you've not played International football, so quite how you feel you're more qualified than me to comment on the footballing levels required for this I don't know.  Basically both of us are judging this on what we've watched and not what we've done.

Anyway, 'great players will always be better than great tactics if the balance is right' you say Well that sounds like a total contradiction to me, because 'the balance being right' is half the tactical battle FFS.  Christ, just look at Brazil and England from this world cup for proof that having better players than your opposition is not necessarily as important as getting it tactically right.  Look at Benitez at Valencia - man for man Barce and Madrid had the better teams, but Valencia got the better of them.  Look at Istanbul, Milan had the great players, we had the tactics in the 2nd half.  There are a million examples.

with all due respect guys...

Why is it that when I read comments from the pair of you (specifically in this topic) I get this mental image of two overaged, overweight heavyweight boxers standing toe to toe and going for it. The hair and teeth are flying, the sweat is pouring down fat cheeks onto bloated bellies!!! And you just know they are both going to drop to the ground unable to scatch themselves but nothing will have been proven and the referee can't award the fight. Hilarious!!!!

PMSL         

(I think you've just got to agree to disagree before it gets nasty and someone gets banned...it is entertaining though in a silly kind of way. ) 

john craig wrote:Lionheart - with all due respect mate, who are you to wade in and take the moral high ground here?

Stu and I often have discussions like this, but our arguments are always about football and rarely resort to name calling - if they do it is in good humour as we don't have a problem with each other and enjoy the banter.

As for 'agreeing to disagree', that is often how these things end between us, but we don't need someone who has no business in the matter telling us that that is the case.  If you want to join in the football debate we are having then by all means welcome aboard mate, but if you are trying to stick your nose in and make some sort of bizarre point here then no one is really going to take notice.

And save your fantasies about fat cheeks and bloated bellies for your bedroom FFS  

Ow, I think I just got bit by the big dog in this bitch fight!!!!

       

clik wrote:Robinson
Neville
Carrager
Terry
A.Cole
Lennon
Hargreaves
Gerrard
J.Cole
Rooney
Crouch

In reality our 2 best players are Gerrard and Rooney. We have to build the side around them. The first part of this is play them in their best postion - Rooney as a 2nd striker and Gerrard behind the front two with a holding player (or two) behind him. We could possibly play a 3-5-2... but we won't.

To get the best out of Rooney he should be playing with Crouch. To get the best out of Gerrard he needs to play with either Hargreaves or Carrick (personally I prefer Hargreaves as Carrick is too weak in the tackle).

The rest of the side picks itself. Robinson in goal (James is too , Carson to inexperienced, Green too injured). Neville is still first choice (even though he is a kn*b), Carragher and Terry are the best centre halves in the country (though Rio had a good World Cup and gives us some pace) and Ashley Cole is the best left back in the World.

Lennon should be given the start in place of Beckham (though I think the criticism he got in the World Cup was unduly harsh), play Gerrard & Hargreaves in the middle and Joe Cole on the left (Downing is over-rated and no where near International quality yet).

Then play Rooney off Crouch. It's not rocket science.

Look at the teams in the last 4, they are all playing their best players in their best positions. Can you imagine Zidane being asked to play a holding midfield role to accomodate somebody else? Scolari doesn't play Simao because to do so he would have to drop Figo or the t*at. If the would have been Sven coaching that team they would have all played.

If Rafa has taught us anything is that being a good manager is not just about picking your best 11 players, it's about picking the best team. Lampard is probably a better player than Hargreaves but so what? If a player is doing more harm than good to the team he needs to be replaced.

inglis5 wrote:

clik wrote:Robinson
Neville
Carrager
Terry
A.Cole
Lennon
Hargreaves
Gerrard
J.Cole
Rooney
Crouch

In reality our 2 best players are Gerrard and Rooney. We have to build the side around them. The first part of this is play them in their best postion - Rooney as a 2nd striker and Gerrard behind the front two with a holding player (or two) behind him. We could possibly play a 3-5-2... but we won't.

To get the best out of Rooney he should be playing with Crouch. To get the best out of Gerrard he needs to play with either Hargreaves or Carrick (personally I prefer Hargreaves as Carrick is too weak in the tackle).

The rest of the side picks itself. Robinson in goal (James is too , Carson to inexperienced, Green too injured). Neville is still first choice (even though he is a kn*b), Carragher and Terry are the best centre halves in the country (though Rio had a good World Cup and gives us some pace) and Ashley Cole is the best left back in the World.

Lennon should be given the start in place of Beckham (though I think the criticism he got in the World Cup was unduly harsh), play Gerrard & Hargreaves in the middle and Joe Cole on the left (Downing is over-rated and no where near International quality yet).

Then play Rooney off Crouch. It's not rocket science.

Look at the teams in the last 4, they are all playing their best players in their best positions. Can you imagine Zidane being asked to play a holding midfield role to accomodate somebody else? Scolari doesn't play Simao because to do so he would have to drop Figo or the t*at. If the would have been Sven coaching that team they would have all played.

If Rafa has taught us anything is that being a good manager is not just about picking your best 11 players, it's about picking the best team. Lampard is probably a better player than Hargreaves but so what? If a player is doing more harm than good to the team he needs to be replaced.

john craig wrote:Lionheart - with all due respect mate, who are you to wade in and take the moral high ground here?

Stu and I often have discussions like this, but our arguments are always about football and rarely resort to name calling - if they do it is in good humour as we don't have a problem with each other and enjoy the banter.

As for 'agreeing to disagree', that is often how these things end between us, but we don't need someone who has no business in the matter telling us that that is the case.  If you want to join in the football debate we are having then by all means welcome aboard mate, but if you are trying to stick your nose in and make some sort of bizarre point here then no one is really going to take notice.

And save your fantasies about fat cheeks and bloated bellies for your bedroom FFS