Liverpool FC Forum

Ace Ventura wrote:                 Robinson

Neville    Ferdinand Terry    A Cole

Gerrard          Parker          Lennon/SWP

                     J Cole

                 Rooney
                            Owen

I think Joe Cole could provide alot more of a threat in a central area and Lennon or SWP would stay out wide and provide width and with Gerrard down the right we would be getting in behind the opposing defence plenty of times in a game.

john craig wrote:I don't think it's the right time now,or even possible to select the England XI for the MacLaren reign.  But it's certainly the time to decide which things need tried, which players need binned and which players deserve a chance.

For me,

Things to try:

Carra-Terry defensive partnership
Someone other than Beckham on the set pieces
Gerrard on the right
Joe Cole in a more central role

Players to be binned or at least made as back-up rather than automatic starters:

Beckham, Lampard, Ferdinand.  Never select Jenas again, or Bridge for that matter.

Players that should get a chance/ more of a chance:

Ashton, Parker, Wright-Phillips, Downing, Pennant, Bent, Defoe, Lennon.  Not saying all of these guys are the answer, but one or two might surprise you.

john craig wrote:

Cool Hand Luke wrote:You want to bin Rio Ferdinand, he was arguably England’s best player in the World Cup. Terry and Ferdinand done excellently, no need to mess with that.

You and I were watching different world cups then.  The Sweden game Ferdinand was an absolute clown and in the Ecuador game Terry was exremely fortunate not to give away a goal.  Neither had a good world cup, but will get praise for their solid backs-to-the-wall performance with 10 men against Portugal, because that's all some people will focus on.  Overall they were far from solid looking to me.  I would certainly play Carragher or a fit Ledley King ahead of Ferdinand.  Maybe even Campbell if he can get back to the level he was at a few seasons back.

England's best performers were Joe Cole, Gerrard and Ashley Cole in that order.  No one else was very good and even those 3 weren't playing at their absolute best.  Maybe Hargreaves who had 2 good games against Ecuador and Portugal.

I can't understand for the life of me what you've got a Ferdinand...

Is it personal or something?

Good Bob wrote:

john craig wrote:

Cool Hand Luke wrote:You want to bin Rio Ferdinand, he was arguably England’s best player in the World Cup. Terry and Ferdinand done excellently, no need to mess with that.

You and I were watching different world cups then.  The Sweden game Ferdinand was an absolute clown and in the Ecuador game Terry was exremely fortunate not to give away a goal.  Neither had a good world cup, but will get praise for their solid backs-to-the-wall performance with 10 men against Portugal, because that's all some people will focus on.  Overall they were far from solid looking to me.  I would certainly play Carragher or a fit Ledley King ahead of Ferdinand.  Maybe even Campbell if he can get back to the level he was at a few seasons back.

England's best performers were Joe Cole, Gerrard and Ashley Cole in that order.  No one else was very good and even those 3 weren't playing at their absolute best.  Maybe Hargreaves who had 2 good games against Ecuador and Portugal.

I can't understand for the life of me what you've got a Ferdinand...

Is it personal or something?

Ace Ventura wrote:Its obvious to anyone that the problem lies in midfield, there is no balance or width at all. Playing 5 in midfield with the players we use is stupid, both come inside all of the time meaning the centre of the pitch is badly overcrowded and then there is acres of space on both wings wasted.
Provided players were fit i would play.

                  Robinson

Neville    Ferdinand Terry    A Cole

Gerrard          Parker          Lennon/SWP

                     J Cole

                 Rooney
                            Owen

I think Joe Cole could provide alot more of a threat in a central area and Lennon or SWP would stay out wide and provide width and with Gerrard down the right we would be getting in behind the opposing defence plenty of times in a game.
Lampard would be a useful sub to bring on and a spell on the substitutes bench might give him the kick up the backside he needs. He is a better player than he has shown in this tournament, but his selfish way of playing (shooting EVERYTIME he has the ball) has badly affected England in this world cup.
If Owen is still struggling with injuries then i would play Defoe personally, Crouch can do a job but Defoe would score more goals imo.

That wouldn't be a bad side but i've said a million times i don't agree with all this holding midfield and attacking midfielder . A flat four will always work best.

Joe Cole and Parker would worry me in terms of arial ability, we'd lose ALOT of headers in the middle of the park. I'd be more inclined to play Carrick instead of Parker with Downing on the left.

The only other way of doing it would be Gerrard in the centre and Pennant on the right.

stmichael wrote:If I was Mclaren now, I would be dropping Beckham, Lampard, Neville, anyone who wont be around in 4 years basically. I'd take Rooney and Gerrard to one side and say "right, I'm going to build the team around you two for the next four years".

Also, Mclaren has played three at the back regularly at Boro and I think he should seriously consider doing the same for england so that we can get the best out of all the players available.

                                  robinson

                carragher       terry       ferdinand

  lennon                                                        a cole

                           hargreaves/parker

                 gerrard                         j. cole

                                  rooney

                                   owen

i agree with ace that joe cole needs to be able to play inside to be most effective. he's never a wide player. just imagine him gerrard and rooney causing havoc in that area of the pitch. in a 4-4-2 i'd even consider playing Gerrard on the right which is probably his best position with a licence to roam all over the pitch.

the lack of quality strikers is still quite alarming though. I'd expect to see Ashton given a chance sooner rather than later and I expect Defoe and Bent to be straight back into the mix aswell.

Stupid suggestion.

The English way is 4-4-2. The reason we don't win anything is because everyone wants a 1-4-3-2-1-5-6-7-8-3-35-6-=2-2--3-3-1-1--4--6-7-3-6. Just play a flat four four two and England will start to win matches.

Simple as.

Good Bob wrote:

john craig wrote:I don't think it's the right time now,or even possible to select the England XI for the MacLaren reign.  But it's certainly the time to decide which things need tried, which players need binned and which players deserve a chance.

For me,

Things to try:

Carra-Terry defensive partnership
Someone other than Beckham on the set pieces
Gerrard on the right
Joe Cole in a more central role

Players to be binned or at least made as back-up rather than automatic starters:

Beckham, Lampard, Ferdinand.  Never select Jenas again, or Bridge for that matter.

Players that should get a chance/ more of a chance:

Ashton, Parker, Wright-Phillips, Downing, Pennant, Bent, Defoe, Lennon.  Not saying all of these guys are the answer, but one or two might surprise you.

Carragher and Terry are club players and are completely out of there depth at International level, this tournement proved this, as if it needed proving in the first place.

Beckham is the best set peice taker in the squad. However the occassional drive from Gerrard wouldn't be a bad alternative.

The other things about Gerrard on the right and Cole in the centre i agree with.

Your critisism's of Ferdinand are getting boring to be honest. He was solid all tournement. He proved he was capable of playing at this level, Terry and Carragher didn't. Ferdinand is still one of the best in the world in his position.

You're critisism of Bridge i find shocking. The lad never played and is clearly Englands second best left back. He's an excellent player who's more than capable of beating a man and whipping in excellent crosses. He's also influencial, i can't quite see where you're coming from with that at all.

The players that weren't there that deserve a chance are Ashton, Defoe, Fowler, Pennant, Barry and Woodgate. Maybe Kirkland as backup.

I refuse to discuss the Ferdinand-Terry-Carra situation any more Stu, because to be honest it IS getting boring.  Terry and Carra club players at best FFS If you were defining players in terms of class there'd only be about half a dozen world class or International class (or whatever you're calling it these days) players on the planet I suspect.

Beckham is now so ineffectual from open play, that having him on for his set piece value is no longer worth it.

As for Bridge, I have never rated him.  It has nothing to do with this world cup.  I just think that if it hadn't been for him being left footed, he'd be nowhere near the England team.  He's average.

Good Bob wrote:The English way is 4-4-2. The reason we don't win anything is because everyone wants a 1-4-3-2-1-5-6-7-8-3-35-6-=2-2--3-3-1-1--4--6-7-3-6. Just play a flat four four two and England will start to win matches.

Simple as.

Pakat wrote:

Ace Ventura wrote:                 Robinson

Neville    Ferdinand Terry    A Cole

Gerrard          Parker          Lennon/SWP

                     J Cole

                 Rooney
                            Owen

I think Joe Cole could provide alot more of a threat in a central area and Lennon or SWP would stay out wide and provide width and with Gerrard down the right we would be getting in behind the opposing defence plenty of times in a game.

SWP can't play on the left and Lennon would be average on the left.  Joe Cole shouldn't play CAM because his long shots aren't powerful enough and that isn't his best position.  I would shift him to the left because he's performing very well on that flank.  I would shift Lennon/SWP to the right flank and put gerrard behind Owen and Rooney.

I guess Joe Cole's strike against Sweden didnt happen then 
SWP and Lennon could both easily play on the left, they might not be left footed but have enough quality to play that position.
Good Bob/stu mentioned Downing he would be an option but for me he is not good enough, he is quick but not as pacey as Lennon SWP, yes he is left footed and can cross the ball well but unless we change our strikers then crosses into the box wont be too beneficial for Owen & Rooney.
I would much rather players that could get in behind the full back pulling the ball back for the strikers or attacking midfielders. I also dont think that Downing has the skill to beat an opponent one against one, so he crosses early sort of like Beckham. Thats ok if you have decent headers of the ball in the box, but for England i dont think it would be the right option. Decent squad player to have though.
The thing good bob mentioned about the lack of height in the midfield if Parker and Cole played is possibly a worry, but most international teams play the ball out from the back anyway so might not even be a factor, and tbh Parker though small imo would win his fair share anyway.
The team i selected allows alot of flexibility regarding players changing positions during the match, Gerrard could move into the centre with Joe Cole on the left and SWP or Lennon on the right every now and again, i think it would be a really positive team with plenty of pace and goal threat in it.

Good Bob wrote:Carragher, Terry and Lampard all have similar level's of ability. You're lack of appriciation between the different levels and the tactical play at club level and international level proves you haven't played the game to a decent standard.

Great players will always be more important than great tactics if the balance is right.

My 'lack of appreciation of different levels of play at club level and International level' Which proves I have not played football to a high level

My suspicion is Stu, that I would pi.ss all over you on a football field, even with the broken foot I have at the moment, but that's beside the point as the chance to do that will most likely never come around.  It's throwaway comments like that you've made above that causes many forum members to think you're a to be honest.  I doubt you've played for a professional club, and I'll bet my house that you've not played International football, so quite how you feel you're more qualified than me to comment on the footballing levels required for this I don't know.  Basically both of us are judging this on what we've watched and not what we've done.

Anyway, 'great players will always be better than great tactics if the balance is right' you say Well that sounds like a total contradiction to me, because 'the balance being right' is half the tactical battle FFS.  Christ, just look at Brazil and England from this world cup for proof that having better players than your opposition is not necessarily as important as getting it tactically right.  Look at Benitez at Valencia - man for man Barce and Madrid had the better teams, but Valencia got the better of them.  Look at Istanbul, Milan had the great players, we had the tactics in the 2nd half.  There are a million examples.

neil wrote:It will be interesting to see if he picks Walcott, if he does not its basically sayin 'Svens a numpty'

Even if he does sven is still a numpty