Our players in the world cup - Tracking how our players are faring

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby xd3vilx » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:53 am

i may not like chelsea, but lampard doesn't deserve to be shoot by the press or anyone. It is just not his day, even Pele has a bad day too.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:04 am

i may not like chelsea, but lampard doesn't deserve to be shoot by the press or anyone. It is just not his day, even Pele has a bad day too


Yes but Pele is 55 and just needs some viagra
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Postby Anfield Kop » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:08 am

If lampard cannot be dropped, then let him be the holding midfield role and push Stevie G forward.
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Postby kingycrouch » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:06 am

ye stevie should be in that cam postition to bag about 10 goals in the tournement garrented coz he is just superb
David Villa would be a great signing if possible come on benitez listen to Garcia on this one
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Postby Good Bob » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:55 am

What is wrong is the balence of the England team.

Steven Gerrard isn't a "holding midfielder".
Steven Gerrard isn't an "attacking midfielder".
Steven Gerrard IS a box to box midfielder with excellent alround ability.

Steven Gerrard isn't great going forward and isn't great defensively. He's only very good at both. He doesn't specialise in either. His shooting and tackling are two of the strongest parts of his game.

What he used to have was a partner in midfield with class, excellent ball skills and excellent alround quality on the ball and who'd chip in defensively, Paul Scholes.

England have now replaced him with Lampard, who quite frankly (excuse the pun) isn't in the same class of player. He is a decent player, but he's not top class. His ability on the ball, intelligence and vision is nowhere near what Scholes used to have. Very similar players aswell, however Scholes was maybe two classes above and i believe it shows as no-one ever said Scholes and Gerrard wasn't a good mix.

The closest player England have to Paul Scholes is Joe Cole. HE has a similar brain and gets through a similar amount of work. However Scholes was more of a passer, where Cole is a dribbler, Scholes would commit players and make space by releasing the ball, Cole would do it by holding onto the ball. Very different tactics that work in very similar ways. still it would provide a very good mix. Gerrard should be allowed more freedom than he has, however i'd still have him as the more defensive minded of the two midfielders.

Gerrard isn't as inventive, as clever and as technically good as Joe Cole or Paul Scholes was and neither is Lampard. England lack creativety when Gerrard and Lampard play in midfield. That same lack of creativety would be evident with Carrick. If you remember a few years ago when Gerrard played with Hamann we often lacked creativety which proves its not Gerrard's main strength.

All this rubbish about a holding player though annoys me. You don't NEED a holding player. Get your tactics right and let good players play their own game. You can give players instructions to be more defensive or more attack minded, but when you start messing with diamonds and :censored: like that you not only become easy to read but the team loses balance as England do nearly every time they play.

For me i'd pick a different side than most people here. I like balance and quality. I like creativety aswell. Gerrard, Lampard and Carrick only offer small amounts of that.

I've always rated Beckham, but he's clearly not the same player he once was. He's got it into his head he's some sort of clever central midfielder, he's not. Untill he realises he's better out wide than in the middle he'd never get a look in.

                Rooney       Owen
Downing     Gerrard        Cole        Pennant
  Cole      Campbell© Ferdinand     Neville
                         Robinson

Simply because i could see this side playing far better football, with pace, quality out wide and players in there who like one two's, with good movement and intelligence.

Backup would be:
                  Ashton      Defoe
  Barry         Carrick     Lampard    Beckham
  Bridge        Terry      Woodgate  Carragher
                         Kirkland
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Postby tubby » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:23 pm

Good Bob wrote:What is wrong is the balence of the England team.

Steven Gerrard isn't a "holding midfielder".
Steven Gerrard isn't an "attacking midfielder".
Steven Gerrard IS a box to box midfielder with excellent alround ability.

Steven Gerrard isn't great going forward and isn't great defensively. He's only very good at both. He doesn't specialise in either. His shooting and tackling are two of the strongest parts of his game.

What he used to have was a partner in midfield with class, excellent ball skills and excellent alround quality on the ball and who'd chip in defensively, Paul Scholes.

England have now replaced him with Lampard, who quite frankly (excuse the pun) isn't in the same class of player. He is a decent player, but he's not top class. His ability on the ball, intelligence and vision is nowhere near what Scholes used to have. Very similar players aswell, however Scholes was maybe two classes above and i believe it shows as no-one ever said Scholes and Gerrard wasn't a good mix.

The closest player England have to Paul Scholes is Joe Cole. HE has a similar brain and gets through a similar amount of work. However Scholes was more of a passer, where Cole is a dribbler, Scholes would commit players and make space by releasing the ball, Cole would do it by holding onto the ball. Very different tactics that work in very similar ways. still it would provide a very good mix. Gerrard should be allowed more freedom than he has, however i'd still have him as the more defensive minded of the two midfielders.

Gerrard isn't as inventive, as clever and as technically good as Joe Cole or Paul Scholes was and neither is Lampard. England lack creativety when Gerrard and Lampard play in midfield. That same lack of creativety would be evident with Carrick. If you remember a few years ago when Gerrard played with Hamann we often lacked creativety which proves its not Gerrard's main strength.

All this rubbish about a holding player though annoys me. You don't NEED a holding player. Get your tactics right and let good players play their own game. You can give players instructions to be more defensive or more attack minded, but when you start messing with diamonds and :censored: like that you not only become easy to read but the team loses balance as England do nearly every time they play.

For me i'd pick a different side than most people here. I like balance and quality. I like creativety aswell. Gerrard, Lampard and Carrick only offer small amounts of that.

I've always rated Beckham, but he's clearly not the same player he once was. He's got it into his head he's some sort of clever central midfielder, he's not. Untill he realises he's better out wide than in the middle he'd never get a look in.

                Rooney       Owen
Downing     Gerrard        Cole        Pennant
  Cole      Campbell© Ferdinand     Neville
                         Robinson

Simply because i could see this side playing far better football, with pace, quality out wide and players in there who like one two's, with good movement and intelligence.

Backup would be:
                  Ashton      Defoe
  Barry         Carrick     Lampard    Beckham
  Bridge        Terry      Woodgate  Carragher
                         Kirkland

You should talk to Sven.
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Postby Good Bob » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:01 pm

Fuck off you blurt.
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:06 pm

nice to see more pleseantries by someone who obviously can't cut it in the real world so swears istead... very cool thing to do.

Steven Gerrard isn't great going forwards?
I saw about 20+ goals last season that may say otherwise.
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Postby Good Bob » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:14 pm

dawson99 wrote:nice to see more pleseantries by someone who obviously can't cut it in the real world so swears istead... very cool thing to do.

Steven Gerrard isn't great going forwards?
I saw about 20+ goals last season that may say otherwise.

Lampard scored more in the league. That must mean he's great going forwards then. :)

Typical rubbish arguement yet again.
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:27 pm

Lampard is also great at going forwards, but Lampard also has Makelele and Essien behind him.

How can you say Gerrard is not gerat at going forwards? When he is running forward with the ball or getting into position he is one of the best as we have seen in the premiership
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Postby tubby » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:17 pm

dawson99 wrote:Lampard is also great at going forwards, but Lampard also has Makelele and Essien behind him.

How can you say Gerrard is not gerat at going forwards? When he is running forward with the ball or getting into position he is one of the best as we have seen in the premiership


You sure you dont want to call me a paki again Stu ?


Your wasting your time trying to argue wih Stu dawson. Just let the baby have his rattle and walk away.LOL :D
Last edited by tubby on Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Good Bob » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:26 pm

dawson99 wrote:Lampard is also great at going forwards, but Lampard also has Makelele and Essien behind him.

How can you say Gerrard is not gerat at going forwards? When he is running forward with the ball or getting into position he is one of the best as we have seen in the premiership

Right, so you're telling me he's in the same class as Scholes was? Are you telling me he's more creative than Cole? He hasn't got the vision, game intelligence or technical ability to be the main play maker.

End of.
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Postby Good Bob » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:27 pm

bavlondon wrote:
dawson99 wrote:Lampard is also great at going forwards, but Lampard also has Makelele and Essien behind him.

How can you say Gerrard is not gerat at going forwards? When he is running forward with the ball or getting into position he is one of the best as we have seen in the premiership


You sure you dont want to call me a paki again Stu ?


Your wasting your time trying to argue wih Stu dawson. Just let the baby have his rattle and walk away.LOL :D

:laugh:

You and I both know the score and what was said.
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:58 pm

Good Bob wrote:
dawson99 wrote:Lampard is also great at going forwards, but Lampard also has Makelele and Essien behind him.

How can you say Gerrard is not gerat at going forwards? When he is running forward with the ball or getting into position he is one of the best as we have seen in the premiership

Right, so you're telling me he's in the same class as Scholes was? Are you telling me he's more creative than Cole? He hasn't got the vision, game intelligence or technical ability to be the main play maker.

End of.

im saying hes better than both.

and bavlondon, the past is the past, lets be nice on here. whatever was said was said, but now its different.

Gerrard is a fantastic player, be it going forward, staying back, [playing right back and probably in goal hed make our first team. To say he is just average at any of his playing positions is an insult to liverpool fans.

look at england, Lampard has been stifling him as Gerrard needs the freedom.
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Postby LFC_fan » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:59 pm

spain plays tonight, have been waiting for this game for the past couple of days. along with argentina, spain has impressed me enough to persuade me to stay up till 5am to catch their game (im in sydney) even though i have an exam in 2 days time. anybody (sabre?) know of their starting line up? wonder if luis and alonso are starting today.

coming back to the topic, kewell had an 'ok' game against brazil. came on in the 55th min for blueshyt cahill and managed to miss a wide open goal 2mins after coming on. granted the ball dropped to him suddenly but he really shd have done better. also put the ball over the bar from outside the box with only the keeper to beat but to be fair to him, luciao was breathing down his neck and he struck the ball on the run. overall, i would have rated him a 6 for the game. made an impact after coming on but didnt really do quite enough, other then getting into trouble for cursing at the refree. as a result, may miss Oz's final group game against croatia. a game they can ill afford to get anything less than a draw.

anyway, all the best to our spanish lads for todays game. looks like a no contest on paper but u never know. one more hour to kick off.. back to my books for the time being. sigh..  ???
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