Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:25 am

I'm sure there will be plenty more chat this summer about the English midfield combo of Lampard/Gerrard and this article from .tv gave me the idea that maybe it's worth a thread of it's own...

While debate still rages outside of Merseyside as to who is actually England's best midfield player, we've taken a look at how the national press in this country judged the performances of both Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard on Saturday.

The Guardian

Gerrard: 6/10

Had he finished as he began the holding midfielder debate would be over. Defended well, passed incisively and offered menace going forward for 30 minutes before fading.

Lampard: 5/10

Another quiet game but good enough to earn the man-of-the-match award from Fifa. Three shots on target but little sign of the marauding threat he poses in a Chelsea shirt.

The Telegraph

Gerrard: 7/10

In his first World Cup finals, Gerrard showed flashes of the brilliance that has graced Anfield – one gorgeous crossfield pass sticks in the memory – and survived one brutal tackle.

Lampard: 7/10

Won Fifa's man-of-the-match tankard – which we're sure will be treated as a prized possession – because of his ability to carve out shooting opportunities and hit the target.

The Times

Gerrard: 7/10

There was a mouthwatering 30 minutes or so from the Liverpool man and he showed no sign of the back injury that had threatened to rule him out. Booked for a tackle on Cristian Riveros, Gerrard’s domination dimmed as he and his team-mates wilted in the heat, but he did enough to suggest this might be his tournament.

Lampard: 5/10

Named the official man of the match, he caught the eye with three long-range efforts that tested Aldo Bobadilla, but he did not impose himself. When the game threatened to drift away from England, a superior midfield did not justify its glittering reputation.

Daily Express

Gerrard: 7/10

Set the tempo for his team-mates in the first half, snapping into tackles and passing with intelligence. Was unlucky to be booked for a tackle on Riveros.

Lampard: 7/10

Dovetailed with Gerrard well and emerged as England's biggest threat, forcing one smart save from Bobadilla. Too often bypassed with long balls, however.

Daily Mirror

Gerrard: 8/10

Another top performance. All-action, disciplined display. Harshly booked for his tackle on Riveros by the incompetent referee.

Lampard: 7/10

Two cracking strikes to test the goalkeeper but will almost certainly get better as the tournament wears on.

Daily Post

Gerrard: 7/10

A mix of everything. Couple of decent shots, one brilliant pass to Owen and a booking. Finished in an advanced position.

Lampard: 7/10

Got into decent positions often enough but could not take advantage. Three shots brought decent saves and helped shore up England's defence as Paraguay pressed.

The Star

Gerrard: 7/10

Covering tackles were brilliant, showi9ng what a force he can be around the pitch. However, he is just not given the licence to break forward from that deeper position.

Lampard: 7/10

Looks like he gets frustrated by the long-ball tactics – and rightly so. Has the most stamina of all the players, and that showed as twice in the final quarter he could have scored.

Overall Scores

Gerrard: 49/70

Lampard: 44/70

...A couple of things in this article I couldn't quite believe. Lampard got the official FIFA man of the match for the Paraguay game? Are you fecking serious? So 3 long range shots and nothing else deserves m-o-m these days?

And you've got to laugh at the Star - '[Lampard] has the most stamina of all the players, and that showed as twice in the final quarter he should have scored'

He has the most stamina? The fat wee :censored:

does absolutely NO work at all, best stamina :laugh:

by **stmichael** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:33 am

Lampard man of the match. You're having a laugh. The southern press are so much up the guy's ar$e it's frightening.

Gerrard is a victim of his own ability. I've not seen much of Gerrard and Lampard supposedly interchanging their roles throughout a game, have you. Its just been Gerrard taking the responsibility of sitting and getting back to help the back four out. Despite not being a holding player, he was truly outstanding in the first half.

The problem is Lampard CAN'T do that job, and shouldn't be trusted to either. Lampard has looked a little innefective in the last few England games, so its time for Gerrard to be used where he's most effective. England badly needed him in the second half yesterday to support Crouch and get a grip on the game, but equally we couldn't afford to lose Gerrard "holding".

Right now Gerrard is the man, not Lampard. Lampard can only play one role, while Gerrard fits many. Thats the problem. But you want your two world class attacking midfielders to play, but really only one can be truly effective going forward, unless we tear up the 4-4-2 and accomodate 5 in midfield.

Its not easy to do, and maintain a balance.

by **Good Bob** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:03 pm

I do agree with him having the most stamina. I think he's exceptionally fit and has excellent stamina. Hence the reason he's so consistent. He also does work fairly hard, but his positional sense in a defensive point of view is average at best and he's certainly not what you'd call a complete box to box midfielder.

St Michael i find it completely laughable you are reffering to Lampard as world class. An absoloute joke of a statement. He's not even in the top 50 players in the world. Let alone the top 15.

He's so overated by people like yourself its unreal.

by **stmichael** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:07 pm

Good Bob wrote:St Michael i find it completely laughable you are reffering to Lampard as world class. An absoloute joke of a statement. He's not even in the top 50 players in the world. Let alone the top 15.

He's so overated by people like yourself its unreal.

Sorry, I meant to put the term "world class" in inverted commas to refer to how the press would refer to the two players.

For what it's worth, Lampard isn't even the best player at Chelsea imo. :blush:

by **Good Bob** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:12 pm

stmichael wrote:
Good Bob wrote:St Michael i find it completely laughable you are reffering to Lampard as world class. An absoloute joke of a statement. He's not even in the top 50 players in the world. Let alone the top 15.

He's so overated by people like yourself its unreal.

Sorry, I meant to put the term "world class" in inverted commas to refer to how the press would refer to the two players.

For what it's worth, Lampard isn't even the best player at Chelsea imo.

Nowhere near the best player at Chelsea.

Gallas, Terry, Cech, Essien, Makelele, Ballack, Shevchenko, Gudjohnsson, Crespo, Robben and Duff are all better players.

He's probably in the same bracket as Drogba, Del Horno, Ferriera and Carvalho.

by **bng89** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:25 pm

Lampard is sh*t. Whats with the Englands team? Are you guys just a team of individuals or are your tatics just sh*t? Gerrard gets pushed out of the game because of overrated retarted lampard.
Gerrard should have got m-o-m for not cracking (punching) Lampard

by **stmichael** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:28 pm

if you wanted more evidence of how overrated lampard is, look how well essien played yesterday when he wasn't having to do Lampard's workload aswell.

by **JC_81** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:35 pm

Good Bob wrote:I do agree with him having the most stamina. I think he's exceptionally fit and has excellent stamina. Hence the reason he's so consistent. He also does work fairly hard, but his positional sense in a defensive point of view is average at best and he's certainly not what you'd call a complete box to box midfielder.

St Michael i find it completely laughable you are reffering to Lampard as world class. An absoloute joke of a statement. He's not even in the top 50 players in the world. Let alone the top 15.

He's so overated by people like yourself its unreal.

He's appears consistent for 2 reasons:

1. The way Chelsea play is completely geared towards him getting goals. His scoring record is also misleading because he hits all the penalties. In fact though he wasn't as consistent this past season as in Chelsea's title win the year before - his form since Christmas is nowhere near the standards he had set in the previous 18 months.

2. He never misses games. This is because he never gets stuck in in games and therefore avoids injury as much as possible. The only meaty challenge I can even remember him making was when he cowardly snapped Alonso's leg.

Good stamina my @rse, he does no work for Chelsea and gets away with it. He does no work for England and England just about got away with it against Paraguay, but against a better side they'll pay.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:24 pm

The biggest problem England have with Gerrard and Fat Frank is that they both like to play "Hollywood balls " rather than short passes to keep possession. At club level both look world class because they have people like Hamann and Makelele who play the SHORT simple pass and keep possession, enabling Gerrard and Lampard to play the fantastic passes. Its very noticable that Gerrard plays much better with Hamann than with Alonso and that he had such a great season with Alonso AND Sissoko than when played with just Alonso. Similarly with England Gerrard looked a much better player before Lampard became a regular. Neither Gerrard or Lampard are players that will enable a team to keep possession for long but both are players who with one fantastic pass can change or win a game. I think its time Sven dropped Fat Frank(even though he is a great player) and brought in a midfield player to compliment Gerrards talent (he is a much more imaginative and creative passer than Fat Frank)

by **RedorDead** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:24 pm

Lampard vs Gerrard - well that is a no contest if ever there was one. Anyone who thinks Lampard is anywhere near as good as Gerrard has no idea about football, simple as that.
Lampard plays in a system where his position is totally protected. He has Makalele behind him and so he has zero defending responsibilities. He has Joe Cole and wingers around him who do all the running and while Chelsea pin back opponents he really doesn't have to do any work at all. Any half decent midfielder could score goals in his position. I think England suffer as a result of having him in the side. Cole and Becks wide with Carrick and Gerrard would be a much much better balanced midfield.
Further to the argument Gerrard is a winner, he can literally dominate games, Istanbul and Cardiff this year were games that Gerrard just grabbed by the scruff and hauled Liverpool to eventual victory, he is a leader in every sense of the word and is truly "world class" to coin a phrase!! Lampard does not have this ability, he hasn't the personality, drive or basic ability to dominate a top flight football match.
As for the MOM award, that is a joke. Gerrard was better than him on the day and Joe Cole was better than both. Farcical decision made by someone who can only have watched some extremely edited highlights!!

by **Good Bob** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:26 pm

Complete rubbish.

He's a very good player. He'd get into most sides in the country. He's not world class, he's not a great player and he's unbelievabley overated. But to suggest he's as poor as that is madness. He's good enough to be in the england squad.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:36 pm

Sometimes the right blend is more important than playing the "best" player. I remember years ago Bob Paisley saying that he would never play Alec Lindsey who was an England international leftback at the time and Phil Neal a rightback in the same team. Lindsey virtually never got another game for Liverpool as Bob must have decided to go with Neal.

by **RedorDead** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:37 pm

Good Bob wrote:Complete rubbish.

He's a very good player. He'd get into most sides in the country. He's not world class, he's not a great player and he's unbelievabley overated. But to suggest he's as poor as that is madness. He's good enough to be in the england squad.

I didn't say he wasn't a good player. I said that he doesn't have the ability to dominate and win games single handed like Steven Gerrard does. I also suggested that his true ability is somewhat disguised by the fact that he plays in a Chelsea midfield where any midfielder who has a good shot from 20 yards would shine and score goals.
I agree that he is good enough to be in the England squad, absolutely he is but as back up to Gerrard and certainly not in the starting eleven.

by **7_Kewell** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:59 pm

s@int wrote:Sometimes the right blend is more important than playing the "best" player. I remember years ago Bob Paisley saying that he would never play Alec Lindsey who was an England international leftback at the time and Phil Neal a rightback in the same team. Lindsey virtually never got another game for Liverpool as Bob must have decided to go with Neal.

I think what everyone is saying, is its a TEAM sport which needs a blend of players to reach a perfect balance.

sorry if i'm pointing out the obvious

by **Good Bob** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:03 pm

RedorDead wrote:
Good Bob wrote:Complete rubbish.

He's a very good player. He'd get into most sides in the country. He's not world class, he's not a great player and he's unbelievabley overated. But to suggest he's as poor as that is madness. He's good enough to be in the england squad.

I didn't say he wasn't a good player. I said that he doesn't have the ability to dominate and win games single handed like Steven Gerrard does. I also suggested that his true ability is somewhat disguised by the fact that he plays in a Chelsea midfield where any midfielder who has a good shot from 20 yards would shine and score goals.
I agree that he is good enough to be in the England squad, absolutely he is but as back up to Gerrard and certainly not in the starting eleven.

Wasn't talking to you, was aimed at John Craig sorry.

I actually agree 100% with the post I've just quoted.

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