Liverpool FC Forum

by **SantaGiveHoullierTheSack** » Sun May 23, 2004 5:25 am

As reported in The Observer today...

Gérard Houllier's increasingly fraught six years in charge of Liverpool will end today when he meets chairman David Moores for talks.

The manager's departure will be confirmed in an official announcement tomorrow, which will describe the split as amicable.

Moores has finally accepted that the growing clamour for Houllier to go has to mean the departure of the once-favoured son.

***********

Hope this is not another paper rumour, we need to fix this and move forward...NOW.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:41 am

Massive mistake if its true.

Another manager will take 4 years minimum to turn this side into his own and that will mean we're wasting the best years of Owen and Gerrards careers should the new manager want to keep both of these players.

Liverpool have to keep building and moving forward under Houllier otherwise we will never make progress. With Gerrard this season starting to show what a class act he really is and hopefully Owen regaining confidence over the summer and getting back to the same level we'll be in a strong position next season, should Houllier leave however i feel we'll again be scrapping for 4th place with Newcastle.

by **LFC #1** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:06 am

inclined to agree stu, a new manager will take time to adapt and will more than likely not achieve instant success, we will do well next season IF owen re signs and houllier does some good business in the transfer market.
The squad we have is good in some areas with a new striker (Cisse), centre half and 1 or 2 quality midfielders making us a force in the Premiership once again.

I am optimsitic for next season, but in the back of my mind know that with a slow start next season we will be in a similar situation as we are now with no choice other than sacking houllier.

by **mynameisred** » Sun May 23, 2004 10:16 am

I continue to ahve the upmost respect for Houllier but its his time to go im afraid. It certainly doesnt take four years to mould a side and its not the fact that we are not winning the premiership that makes Owen and Gerrard thinking about moving on. They love Liverpool just as we do but they want to be at least challenging at the very top each year. We have fallen miles behind now its as simple as that. However there is only one man for the job, a certain Mr O'Neill, if anyone can get the best out of de-motivated squad its him, he can have the players working hard for the badge and would have us playing football more suited to the stature of the club.
Houllier by nature is cautious and you can clearly see the effect on the team. Also lets face it Houllier has made us a laughing stock all season with his continued efforts to swoon us with stats, they mean jacks@!£, the only stats we need to know is that we were clodser to wolves than Arsenal. If he wants to keep his dignity in tact then resign now and take the pressure of the board they can then focus on securing the investment on the injection of quality our first team needs and of course putting together an attractive package to tempt O'Neill. I believe we offer one of the most prestigious and safe jobs in the Premiership and when coupled with the money that will be invested, the fans and the nucleus of a chamionship winning squad he would be crazy not to accept. Lets face it he is not exactly categorically stating that he doesnt want it and surely if he loved Celtic as much as their fans claim he would simply sign a five yaer contract and be done with it. Also to those who thinks he is waiting for the scums call are you mad why the hell would anyone want to take over after Ferguson, shades of Dalglish and Souness one thinks. If im wrong and Houllier pulls it out the bag next year I will rightly hold my hands and admit im wrong but I ask you all this would you rather see the animated Martin O'Neill running up and down the Anfield touchline heading every ball and getting every inch of sweat out of those average Houllier buys or Houlliers often puzzled look and talk of corner stats.

by **fivecups** » Sun May 23, 2004 10:20 am

Go! Go! Go! Go!

2 players will not challenge for the title. 6 years and wasted millions with poor buys and no progression.

Martin O'Neill would not take 4 years to bring the club on. If he comes Im just sorry we let Heskey go before a proper man-motivator and confidence builder got hold of him.

We need you Martin and we need you now.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun May 23, 2004 10:49 am

Go! Go! Go! Go!

2 players will not challenge for the title. 6 years and wasted millions with poor buys and no progression.

Martin O'Neill would not take 4 years to bring the club on. If he comes Im just sorry we let Heskey go before a proper man-motivator and confidence builder got hold of him.

We need you Martin and we need you now.

What about the good signings and managing to beat sides that should have wiped the floor with us? Also what about 8- points in the league and reaching the quarter finals of the champions league? Doesn't that count then?

How long would Martin O'Neil take then mate? I'd like to KNOW when he'd win the league if came.

Also, have you forgot? Heskey played under O'Neil for leicester... ok maybe under different circumstances than playing for Liverpool but Heskey was exactly the same for them. A few great games then 10 poor. He never scored more than 10 or 11 goals in a season for Leicester either if i'm not mistaken?

Then theres O'Neils signings... Who has he signed that makes you think he'd spend big money wisely? Alan Thompson? Didier Agathe? John Hartson? The only two players at celtic who he signed that i'd say are genuinely good footballers are Sutton and "potentially" Balde but i haven't seen much of Balde so i could well be mistaken.

Then theres his experience of working with big players... Heskey, Larrson... erm... erm... now i'm struggling... Izzet? Elliot? What makes you so 100% certain he can handle Owen, Gerrard, Hamann, Hyypia, Kewell? I think he'd be reasonable but no better than Houllier at this.

Then theres his tactics... 3-5-2? Please. You aren't gonna win the premier league with that system with any english players. English and scotish players are brought up in 4-4-2 (varitions including 4-5-1) and 4-3-3 systems and thats the best way to play in this country. Can you name me a side thats ever finished in the top two playing this system? Also O'Neil likes to play with a target man he can hit from deep positions. Hence the reason he has Hartson and Sutton. You often see Celtic playing the ball to Suttons head or chest.

So what exactly makes you so sure O'Neil is something special?

If he comes he'll get my support. But i hope to god it never happens.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:18 am

I continue to ahve the upmost respect for Houllier but its his time to go im afraid. It certainly doesnt take four years to mould a side and its not the fact that we are not winning the premiership that makes Owen and Gerrard thinking about moving on. They love Liverpool just as we do but they want to be at least challenging at the very top each year. We have fallen miles behind now its as simple as that. However there is only one man for the job, a certain Mr O'Neill, if anyone can get the best out of de-motivated squad its him, he can have the players working hard for the badge and would have us playing football more suited to the stature of the club.
Houllier by nature is cautious and you can clearly see the effect on the team. Also lets face it Houllier has made us a laughing stock all season with his continued efforts to swoon us with stats, they mean jacks@!£, the only stats we need to know is that we were clodser to wolves than Arsenal. If he wants to keep his dignity in tact then resign now and take the pressure of the board they can then focus on securing the investment on the injection of quality our first team needs and of course putting together an attractive package to tempt O'Neill. I believe we offer one of the most prestigious and safe jobs in the Premiership and when coupled with the money that will be invested, the fans and the nucleus of a chamionship winning squad he would be crazy not to accept. Lets face it he is not exactly categorically stating that he doesnt want it and surely if he loved Celtic as much as their fans claim he would simply sign a five yaer contract and be done with it. Also to those who thinks he is waiting for the scums call are you mad why the hell would anyone want to take over after Ferguson, shades of Dalglish and Souness one thinks. If im wrong and Houllier pulls it out the bag next year I will rightly hold my hands and admit im wrong but I ask you all this would you rather see the animated Martin O'Neill running up and down the Anfield touchline heading every ball and getting every inch of sweat out of those average Houllier buys or Houlliers often puzzled look and talk of corner stats.

Right firstly why doesn't it take 4 years to mould a side? I can't believe you said that. It took Alex Ferguson 5 years. It takes along time. The first season you need to set a system and get players playing to that system, you also need to assess what you have. When Houllier took charge he had Fowler, Owen (who was still a kid and devolping), Matteo, Thompson (another kid), Carragher (developing player) and Murphy who was on his way out as he hadn't at the time lived up to his early promise. The rest were ******, its as simple as that. He also greatly contributed to the clubs training ground and academy which will serve the club brilliantly for many years to come and thats something which he should be thanked for.

Once the tactic and assessment is done then the improvement started. He started bringing in players that were improving the side. We were seeing Gerrard coming through and watching him develop from a skinny kid with potential to the monster of a player he is today and he's still improving.

He couldn't just go out and buy 22 great players and then mould them. You have to introduce players into systems. If you change it to much you lack direction and stability and it can also go stale very quickly. Also he's not been able to spend big money. He's done it twice, one was a mistake, the other.... more of a dissapointment. Most of his signings have been bargain basement buys, which are always a gamble. Some have payed off... others havent. If he was capable of signing players as good as Hyypia and Kewell every time for that kind of money then we'd have probably a perfect manager... but the fact is we all make mistakes... and you usually get what you pay for, however he's done well in the market imo. (that means he's done well as i say, not brilliantly. 7/10).

Also you say about O'Neil having the players working hard for the badge... the effort isn't the problem with this side. More often than not its the quality. Think about Fulham at home 0-0... the fifth to last match. Effort wise we played well, we battled hard and created chances. We simply failed to take them.

You say the stats don't mean anything? Well ok, lets look at it this way. We've had more shots, more shots on target, more penalties and more corners than any other side in the league. We've also hit the woodwork more than any other side in the league. Now, i'm not one for stats myself, not at all, i'm a massive believer in you get what you deserve, i always have been, if you don't take your chances you don't deserve to win... as Arsenal didn't in the FA cup final against us. But think about it, how many games this season have we come off and thought, 9/10 times that chance would have been burried, Owen should have and normally would have scored.... or something along those lines?? Then there was the injury situation for the first 3rd of the season... when the players started coming back the damage in terms of confidence, stability and cohession was already done and its something which we struggled (as any side would mid season) to get back.

Theres been alot of factors this season as to why things haven't gone our way. Yes i know we aren't good enough at the moment but i believe that the results away to United and Chelsea and our goal difference is a better indicator of how far behind we are. Now say a quality player gets you 5 goals in the goal difference charts... have a look and see what it can do to us... That in my opinion says something. I'm not making excuses, its been a very average season where the bare arsed minumim was acheived... but look at it this way... it could have been far worse.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:21 am

See boys i can post without being abusive

by **Sean** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:28 am

Somebody mentioned that changing boss would mean 4 years of rebuilding which would waste the best of Owen and Gerrard's years. If you ask me the last two years were a complete waste of their careers. Remember it's not just the lack of trophies that is upsetting but Houlliers negative tactics are mind numbing or as Ian St. John said turning thr fans into zombies. If this continues we may pick up the odd Worthington Cup but our true stars like Owen and Gerrard will make tracks and move to Madrid, Barcelona or heaven forbid to another premiership team where they will be given more opportunites to express themselves in an attack minded team.

I have stated previously that I favour the return of King Kenny or even John Toshack (who has an unbelieveable knowledge of European football and a Liverpool heart) bu I also think it is time to promote Steve Heighway and get rid of Thommo. Thommo is all mouth (and nose) whereas Heighway probabaly as knowledge of every talanted youngster in Britain and was also responsible for nurturing Carra, Owen and Gerrard. This would then create a vacancy in the academy and since we keep hearing that Houllier was responsible for developing Henry, Trezeget and Anelka before the 98 World Cup, maybe his talents are more suited to a role with the academy.

Seán

by **115-1073096938** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:35 am

I gotta go out... some interesting points tho, look forward to replyin to that in detail and length later on tonight.

by **jonnymac1979** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:38 am

Heighway wouldn't take the managers job. He's publicly stated this.

by **haps** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:25 pm

Not Heighway for manager but to assist someone like Kenny/O'Neill. Interesting. Anyway, another rumour on TalkSport/the papers today is McAllister to work under Kenny. I like the sound of McAllister coming back to work with the players. Theres a guy who'll get respect and knows a thing or two about competing. Not totally convinced about Kenny coming back. Not saying I'd be against it but well. its a long time since he did a superb job for us and a bit of pfaffing around at Newcastle and mumbling on Channel 5 in the last 5/6 years doesn't inspire me. Heard something about him becoming a "spokesman" for the club. What the f**k's that mean? I love all this speculation.

by **mynameisred** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:27 pm

Stuthered, if this conversation took place a few months ago I would have agreed with the majority of what you say but alas no more. Alex ferguson was given time simply because it was him and im sure whoever kept him in a job had a better idea of the man in charge and other factors e.g the players who were about to come and his record. Houllier simply does not match up yeah he was instrumental in the french academy but my grandma could have done that job with the amount of natural talent coming through there. I love the guy to bits, he has won a few trophies and gave us our best season for a decade but its gone stale mate we need a change and lets face it if he doesnt start off the season with a bang hes gonna go anyway. Your right he did bring on alot of players but they were alraedy there and im pretty confident that whoever was in charge of Liverpool it wouldnt have mattered Owen and Gerrard are naturally world class players only a mug could miss. His buys overall have been awful and again your right about some of O'Neills buys but look at what they have won, their european performances and they hardly match the muscle of us finacially do they. He turns the most average of players into winners and theres plenty of players at Anfield who could do with a bit of that. Would it not be better all round for Houllier to walk, to build on what we have in another direction. We have money available and that is such a pull now in the pursuit of a manager so a top quality boss would not be a problem. Also chill out a bit we all want the same thing at the end of the day dont we.

by **Sean** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:34 pm

I like the idea of McAllister returning as part of the management team. He was by far Houlliers bet buy and ironically he cost nothing. However, I would imagine that the personal problems that caused him to leave Coventry will prevent him from coming back.

Seán

by **jack66** » Sun May 23, 2004 2:37 pm

i think its a bang on certainty that benitez will become the new manager if houllier goes, would prefer oneill myself.i heard john kieth on radio merseyside saying "liverpool will definetly not offer martin oneill the job as liverpool manager". this guy knows his stuff.

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