Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Red Baron** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:38 am

Tomorow sees the opening games of the World Cup.We all have our own special memories of past World Cups,great goals controversial goals,and terrible goals.

The questions I would like to pose are ;

In the pursuit of World Cup glory,is it ok to cheat ?

We all remember Marradonnas hand of God.How would you feel If one of your players scored a goal like that ? is it acceptable.Is it ok to take a dive or feign injury ?
Has fair play gone out of the window or has it never been there in the first place.

I would be gutted to get knocked out by a hand of God type goal Wiith one minitue to go in the semi final, would you take one.For me there is nothing to think about,Bloody right I would.I heard a cricketer talking about sportsmanship on the radio he said,If there was no cheating in sport we wouldnt need referees,

What do you think.

by **jonnymac1979** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:58 am

Controversial topic indeed.

Normally I would say never cheat. But as it's the World Cup, it appears England have this reputation worlwide of being noble and gracious and a side who never ever cheat. The whole world seem to want to beat England and will usually do anything to do it. I am sick of being done over by sheer bad luck or cheating, or not taking advantage of opposition weakness. Or fucking penalty shoot-outs.

Play dirty if you need to, I say. When Gerrard dived for the penalty against Hungary a couple of weeks ago, I didn't give a shit to be honest. I applauded him for it. Good on him, if it was the World Cup final next month and Gerrard did this, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

And by the way, I believe Geoff Hurst's second goal did not fully cross the line in the 1966 World Cup final, it bounced onto the line and back out. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see that if you ask me, so we got away with one of the biggest contoversies ever. It's been forty years and people still wont shut up about it. No wonder the rest of the world hates us.

It worked for Argentina in 1986 against us, I suppose Owen went down a little quickly against them in the last two World Cups to gain penalty kicks against them so I say if a little gamesmanship is there, try it, see what happens.

On the other hand, we shouldn't have to resoprt to cheating. The experience the players have in this squad is astounding. They all seem to come from Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool, with the odd Spurs or Newcastle man in there. These players are all weighed down with Premierships, FA Cups, UEFA Cups, League Cups, Champions Leagues, Super Cups, you name it. A couple of them have appeared as winners or runners-up in the World and European Footballer of the Year polls, and one of our players who is not even 21 years old is feared the World over. We shouldn't have to cheat, if they believe in themselves, they could probably get to the semi-finals if not further.

My view only applies to England by the way over the next seven or so games. We can win the World Cup here. I'm not talking about the cheating video knocking around on YouTube of all Chelsea's blatant diving, handballing and cheating. That's absolutely disgusting. Expect more from Drogba in this World Cup.

by **48-1119859832** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:13 am

I can see where JohnnyMac's coming from, but I wouldn't want to see England cheat in order to gain an advantage. I've never liked it and never will. It seems to have always been part of the parcel in football which dates back to the origins of football. However I don't like it and will be very embarrassed if I see any of the England players diving, time wasting, handballing, obstructing the keeper, play acting and any other kind of cheating.

We've been knocked out of a few World Cups by cheating but that doesn't mean to say we should resort to it. I want England to play fairly and play well.

We have the players and the experience to go far in the tournement so I don't think we need to cheat.

by **GOAT** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:03 pm

No i think its wrong to cheat no matter what the stakes are, it was disappointing to see gerrard diving for that penalty in the warm up game last week. Would you really want us to go on and gloriously win the world cup only for the rest of the world to call us cheaters and say we didnt deserve it. I would like to win the thing properly, we dont need to cheat

by **The Red Baron** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:31 pm

GOAT wrote:No i think its wrong to cheat no matter what the stakes are, it was disappointing to see gerrard diving for that penalty in the warm up game last week. Would you really want us to go on and gloriously win the world cup only for the rest of the world to call us cheaters and say we didnt deserve it. I would like to win the thing properly, we dont need to cheat

I agree with you mate,cheating is wrong.We [England]have been on the wrong end of it and it didnt feel nice.Were is the line drawn now beetween Profesionalism,and cheating.If you listen to football pundits it seems to be condoned,and accepted as part of the game.You are right It was dissapointing to see Gerrard take a dive.Can you honestly say
if the same situation arises during the tournament,you wont be out of your seat screaming penalty.I know its wrong but I for one know Iwill be.

by **GOAT** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:46 pm

The Red Baron wrote:
GOAT wrote:No i think its wrong to cheat no matter what the stakes are, it was disappointing to see gerrard diving for that penalty in the warm up game last week. Would you really want us to go on and gloriously win the world cup only for the rest of the world to call us cheaters and say we didnt deserve it. I would like to win the thing properly, we dont need to cheat

I agree with you mate,cheating is wrong.We [England]have been on the wrong end of it and it didnt feel nice.Were is the line drawn now beetween Profesionalism,and cheating.If you listen to football pundits it seems to be condoned,and accepted as part of the game.You are right It was dissapointing to see Gerrard take a dive.Can you honestly say
if the same situation arises during the tournament,you wont be out of your seat screaming penalty.I know its wrong but I for one know Iwill be.

Yeah i know i probably would be screaming for the penalty but it wouldnt be my most favoured way to win a match although i would take it. Id much rather we won our games properly, if we were on the recieving end of a dive we would be furious especially if it knocked us out the world cup. I would like us to show our footballing talent in matches and win the matches in style, it will also feel more of an achievement in the end if we have won the thing genuinely. Having said that, winning the world cup through a bit of cheating would be better than not winning it at all i guess

by **48-1119859832** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:52 pm

I'm quite blind when it comes to diving in the sense that it takes replays of the incidents and a closer camera angle to actually make me realise it was a dive for example Owen in 2002 when he fell down in the penalty area, I thought it was a penalty and I screamed for a penalty and then as I kept watching it I knew it was wrong but sadly many footballers do ballay and are able to act very well to the point where they convince a large audience that they have been fouled.

by **Big Niall** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:19 pm

Isn't delibarately fouling cheating too. I mean I saw the 1986 Argentina game again last week and Peter Reid and Fenwick kicked Maradonna all over the field (Fenwich hit him in the face off the ball too)

The Argentinians are notorious foulers so I'd little sympathy when Owen did a flyer. If a defender is kicking a forward all over the place, can you really blame the forward for diving/handball etc?

by **dawson99** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:28 pm

i think its difdferent cheating to win a penalty and cheating to geta player sent off. what robben did to reina or gudjohnson to alonso is far worse than diving after minimal contact

by **The Red Baron** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:30 pm

Shirt pulling is the one that really gets my back up.It is very rare you see a defender being penalised from corners or free kicks.If a penalty is given the pundits always say its a harsh decision.Its cheating,and it goes on all the time.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:11 pm

to cheat and deliberately get another player sent off is in my view unforgivable and I would feel ashamed for my country if they resorted to this tactic.

To cheat by handling the ball or diving to gain a free kick or penalty is a more difficult call (the opposition player may even be sent off for the foul or for protesting too much)but I think its becoming a "everyone else is doing it " so we have to do it as well problem, that could only be stopped by after match video evidence leading to suspensions or even replayed matches( which is not really feasable).

Shirt pulling could be easily stopped if refs started awarding penalties for it.

So my view is Rivaldo should have been sent off for his actions in last world cup when he pretended ball hit his face, but Maradona and Owen did a good job for their teams and I wouldnt object if one of our players did it in this World cup. Who would rather Gerrard had stayed on his feet and MISSED against Milan ? Not me anyway!

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:35 pm

Big Niall wrote:Isn't delibarately fouling cheating too. I mean I saw the 1986 Argentina game again last week and Peter Reid and Fenwick kicked Maradonna all over the field (Fenwich hit him in the face off the ball too)

The Argentinians are notorious foulers so I'd little sympathy when Owen did a flyer. If a defender is kicking a forward all over the place, can you really blame the forward for diving/handball etc?

Deliberately fouling an opponent is considered cheating? I donno bout that.

You get punished for doing that and you know you're gonna get pulled up for it.

Diving and playacting on the other hand just is plain deception. You're trying to get one over on the ref. Just because every man and his dog is bloody diving and what not, doesn't make it right for me.

2 wrongs don't make a freakin right.

For me, I'll take the high road on this one everytime. we should never condone it IMO. Stevie shouldn't have done the fu.cking swan dive against Hungary.

Love him to bits of course but he was wrong in that case.

by **taff** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:58 pm

I think in all honesty that its part of the game whether we like it or not, to say England dont cheat is wrong as they have players that do but I think its not blatantly part of the gameplan as it is for some countries.

Joe Jordan knocked Wales out with blatant cheating years ago and the Jockos went to the world cup as gallant underdogs :angry:

People react differently when the stakes are higher and its whether you morally approve or not. Its an argument that easily changes game to game

by **jonnymac1979** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:39 pm

What about Gudjohnsen on Alonso? Gudjohnsen was well aware that Alonso was a booking away from missing the second leg. Fuck all difference it made to those classless shithouses from 'The Bridge' anyway, we did them at Anfield in a game where the atmosphere will take a LOT to be beaten.

But they don't care, a place in the Champions League final was at stake that night. This time it might be the World Cup final. These players will do what it takes, make no mistake.

by **dawson99** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 pm

jonnymac1979 wrote:What about Gudjohnsen on Alonso? Gudjohnsen was well aware that Alonso was a booking away from missing the second leg. Fuck all difference it made to those classless shithouses from 'The Bridge' anyway, we did them at Anfield in a game where the atmosphere will take a LOT to be beaten.

But they don't care, a place in the Champions League final was at stake that night. This time it might be the World Cup final. These players will do what it takes, make no mistake.

i mentioned that earlier. things like that are a disgrace. thats the one bad thing garcia does. the diving i can sort of handle.. i hate it but others do it far more, its the play acting that gets my goat

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