Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:45 pm

I wouldn't be inclined to dismiss the Pennant, Bent and Bellamy rumours so readily. Often in the past Rafa and the club have denied reported interest in a player vehemently, only for the rumours subsequently to be proven to be accurately indicating fire (for sabre's benefit and since it seems to national proverb day, we have a saying "there's no smoke without fire").
Clearly we'd like Simao (or at least Rafa clearly would) but once Chelsea declare an interest he's gone, and likewise Wright-Phillips will probably prove beyond our means despite the Alan Hansen/Ian Wright laugh-in of the other day. Pennant then becomes a serious possibility and while Bellamy in particular and Bent to a slightly lesser extent may not be to everybody's taste, they are proven performers in our league albeit over a relatively short space of time in the case of the Charlton man.
The key's in the fee of course. Rumour has it that Bellamy has a buy-out clause for a Champions League club of 6 million quid and at that I'd bite their hands off at the elbow TBH. I think he'd be a fantastic player for us, providing just the right amount of devil and nastiness allied to his undoubted pace and fledgeling goalscoring ability. He'd need managing but that's what the gaffer is for.
Bent is much less proven and clearly worth nowhere near the 12 million Charlton are bandying about. Clubs do this however with prospective transfer fees, particularly smaller clubs when they are faced with a predatory move by a big team. My suspicion is that with a little foot-stamping from Bent, he could probably be prised away for around two thirds of that figure, maybe less than half that amount if we were to throw in, say Steven Warnock as a makewieght (it's hard to imagine him playing too much if this Aurelio is as good as we are led to believe). Warnock could also figure in a move for Defoe given Spurs obvious weaknesses at left-back and their liking for young English players so some may consider him a better bet than the Charlton man if we are buying local so to speak.
My own feeling is that I'd be very happy to see us buying British players. We are at the crossroads here and the next steps must be taken with extreme caution. Now is not in my opinion the time to go splashing money on gambles from abroad who come over, Morientes style and never look like settling in the Premiership. There is a case of course for doing less rather than more. My feeling is that if we started next season with the same team with which we played the latter half of last season we would go wvery close to winning the Premiership. That is to say the usual back four, Gerrard on the right with Sissokom and Alonso centrally, Kewell left and Crouch with Fowler uptop. It's crucial that what we bring in has the potential to improve the team in the immediate term. What we don't want is a bloke to replace Crouch or Fowler who takes 18 months to settle as that could see us slip backwards again.

by **Rimetto** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:48 pm

Sabre wrote:
"We have a saying in Spain if you shoot enough bullets at all the targets, you might get lucky and hit the right one eventually," is Benitez response to the various players hes been linked with to date.

Yes we have. And we apply that when we think that the ones shooting has no clue about where they're aiming at meaning that if they eventually make one hit, it's fluke, not good criteria.

i think he was aiming this comment at the speculation concerning the possible transfers not to his way of buting players sabre

by **A.B.** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:48 pm

Rimetto wrote:

He's what, 29? And I honestly don't think he's got the game for the Premiership.

If Garcia can play in the Premiership than so can Giuly.

by **AussieKopite** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:32 pm

The right-sided player intrigues me most.

by **dawson99** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:35 pm

one of the nicest things for this summer will be the fact that we are almost trere squad wise. so it will be quality over quantity.

by **alessandromagno** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:16 pm

I don't mind if Rafa sells Cisse. But we should replace him with someone clearly better (and preferably just as fast).

by **Bad Bob** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:20 pm

bigmick wrote:I wouldn't be inclined to dismiss the Pennant, Bent and Bellamy rumours so readily. Often in the past Rafa and the club have denied reported interest in a player vehemently, only for the rumours subsequently to be proven to be accurately indicating fire (for sabre's benefit and since it seems to national proverb day, we have a saying "there's no smoke without fire").
Clearly we'd like Simao (or at least Rafa clearly would) but once Chelsea declare an interest he's gone, and likewise Wright-Phillips will probably prove beyond our means despite the Alan Hansen/Ian Wright laugh-in of the other day. Pennant then becomes a serious possibility and while Bellamy in particular and Bent to a slightly lesser extent may not be to everybody's taste, they are proven performers in our league albeit over a relatively short space of time in the case of the Charlton man.
The key's in the fee of course. Rumour has it that Bellamy has a buy-out clause for a Champions League club of 6 million quid and at that I'd bite their hands off at the elbow TBH. I think he'd be a fantastic player for us, providing just the right amount of devil and nastiness allied to his undoubted pace and fledgeling goalscoring ability. He'd need managing but that's what the gaffer is for.
Bent is much less proven and clearly worth nowhere near the 12 million Charlton are bandying about. Clubs do this however with prospective transfer fees, particularly smaller clubs when they are faced with a predatory move by a big team. My suspicion is that with a little foot-stamping from Bent, he could probably be prised away for around two thirds of that figure, maybe less than half that amount if we were to throw in, say Steven Warnock as a makewieght (it's hard to imagine him playing too much if this Aurelio is as good as we are led to believe). Warnock could also figure in a move for Defoe given Spurs obvious weaknesses at left-back and their liking for young English players so some may consider him a better bet than the Charlton man if we are buying local so to speak.
My own feeling is that I'd be very happy to see us buying British players. We are at the crossroads here and the next steps must be taken with extreme caution. Now is not in my opinion the time to go splashing money on gambles from abroad who come over, Morientes style and never look like settling in the Premiership. There is a case of course for doing less rather than more. My feeling is that if we started next season with the same team with which we played the latter half of last season we would go wvery close to winning the Premiership. That is to say the usual back four, Gerrard on the right with Sissokom and Alonso centrally, Kewell left and Crouch with Fowler uptop. It's crucial that what we bring in has the potential to improve the team in the immediate term. What we don't want is a bloke to replace Crouch or Fowler who takes 18 months to settle as that could see us slip backwards again.

I agree with what you're saying about proven premiership talent, Mick...we cannot afford any passengers--especially up front--if we want to challenge right from the off next season. Forwards who know the league have a much better chance of making an impact straight away, IMO.

Having said that, I'd be a bit unhappy if we made a move for Bent. Sure, he's had a great season but one season does not a Liverpool-calibre player make. Last year people were arguing that we should go after Andy Johnson on the basis of one good season of top-flight football and you just don't hear that shout much anymore. Bent's too flavour of the month for my liking...I'd prefer Bellamy or Defoe.

My only question about any new forward is what system we'll be expecting him to slot into. I know that you, Mick, still see Gerrard as being most effective on the right but I wonder if that is in Rafa's long-term plans (particularly if we swoop for Pennant or another right-sided player)? Based on this season's displays, both Momo and Xabi are undroppable so if Gerrard is to move back to the middle when a RM arrives, the formation will have to change, right?

As I've said in Joko's thread, I don't see Gerrard as a second striker so we may see more 4-5-1 next season to accommodate 3 central midfielders. In this context, who will that "1" up front be? Crouchy? Robbie? Or someone we bring in? If it's the latter, than whoever we buy needs to play that lone role well. Can Bellamy or Defoe do that?

by **Paul C** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:22 pm

I like the fact that Rafa is trying to get the signings complete before the World Cup if possible (I'm impatient).

I really think Rafa's gonna go for Pennant! :;):

by **stmichael** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:23 pm

bigmick wrote:We are at the crossroads here and the next steps must be taken with extreme caution.

i mentioned this the other day in a post. we are essentially back to where we were at the end of the 2001/2002 season, only you trust the current manager to spend wisely to a far greater degree than you could houllier.

by **bigmick** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:40 pm

Bad Bob wrote:As I've said in Joko's thread, I don't see Gerrard as a second striker so we may see more 4-5-1 next season to accommodate 3 central midfielders. In this context, who will that "1" up front be? Crouchy? Robbie? Or someone we bring in? If it's the latter, than whoever we buy needs to play that lone role well. Can Bellamy or Defoe do that?

Totally agree about Gerrard as a striker Bob, it's a complete non-starter despite the collective media jumping on the bandwagon after Saturday. Gerrard the right-back is a possibility, or right-midfielder as you've pointed out I think is a certainty but as a striker its a no from me.
I also agree with you about the 4-5-1. I think we're going to see it quite a bit next season. Not as we imagine however, I think we'll see two banks of four with Gerrard being given a completely free role in many games. His pace, strength and anticipation would make him very difficult to man-mark in this situation.
To answer your question about the striker most suited to this role of playing uptop on his own, the answer amongst the prospective transfer targets is a no-brainer. Bent (though I'm not convinced by him myself either TBH) plays the role regularly for Charlton and is suited to it. He would be the best bet for it by a distance.
If you were being mischeavious you may also point out that we already have a certain expensive French striker at the club who looks to me like he would relish the role, one which he excelled at before we bought him. Whether rafa would see it that way though is extremely doubtful.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:45 pm

A.B. wrote:
Rimetto wrote:

He's what, 29? And I honestly don't think he's got the game for the Premiership.

If Garcia can play in the Premiership than so can Giuly.

The same could have been said for Veron.

Garcia is just a freak. His game is NOT suited to the Premiership, and yet he's been a success.

99 times out of 100, he'd have failed to make an impact, IMO.

by **bigmick** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:51 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:[Garcia is just a freak. His game is NOT suited to the Premiership, and yet he's been a success.

99 times out of 100, he'd have failed to make an impact, IMO.

I'd be inclined to agree with that Lando TBH. Though I'm a big fan of Garcia and what he brings to the team, he is patently unsuited to English football in my view. His abundance of talent and ability enable him to make an impact despite his physical shortcomings. Watch out for him in the World Cup. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if in the more technical environment of an International competition he emerges as one of the players of the tournament.

by **Sabre** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:11 pm

Gerrard should never be a second striker, if the 100% of benefit to the team is to be achieved. IMHO the unnatural numbers of goals he's got have to do with his utter class, and also with the good work the team has done for him.

About Luis Garcia, yes, physically he's not strong, not for Spanish standards neither. But he's class. I expect him to play as a second striker in the world cup and I think he can be an impact. The fact that Aragones will bring 3 strikers to Germany makes me think that Spain will play with one clear forward, probably Villa, and a man behind him, that I think that will be Luis Garcia, if Aragones has the personality not to use Raul in that position (the Madrid press, always presses). One thing I like a lot about LG, is that he won't care doings his tricks and flicks against Brazil or Argentina, he has that shameless attitude that I think we need.

by **alessandromagno** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:53 pm

He could be a sensation in the World Cup.

by **red37** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:59 pm

sabre, you should carry on your fine work in a new thread in the rumour mill...

spanish news re: liverpool topic.

the english media are boring :angry:

lets have some info about alves,navas joaquin, vicente, aimar....whoever, anything except bent and SWP etc... its doing my head in!

Liverpool FC Forum

Yet more hints.... - Interview with rafa

Who is online