Liverpool FC Forum

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:24 pm

What I'm saying is anyone can learn to play football. Not everyone can learn to run the 100m in under 11 seconds.

OK .....

by **Judge** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:35 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:Something tells me that Cisse might actually be starting to turn the corner for LFC...

turn corners...wtf.....he only knows how to run in a straight line, remain offside, and shrug his fucking shoulders.

if we had someone else who had all of his chances, they'dve scored 50 goals this season. Cisse is useless - get rid !!

get a grip lad

by **The Ace1983** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:40 pm

I've got this horrible suspicion that if Rafa doesn't get the men he wants, Cisse will be staying with us next season. I'd rather have him than nothing, but not by much. Nando will go, and will be replaced by another spaniard/south american, but if that player costs too much, and a suitable replacement for Cisse is too expensive, Rafa'll hang on to him.

by **A.B.** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:20 pm

kazza wrote:
LFCFan4Life wrote:There is no reason why my first touch is better than a professional footballer's.

The name might have changed, but the level of cr@p has not.

Kicking a ball against the wall in the playground on your lunch break should not be compared to a premiership match. Once again, the one that does not know, but does not know he does not know.

I'm not going to get into a slanging match with a igorant :censored:

yet again. The exaggeration comment was made in order to get a point accross. How you fail to comprehend that is beyond me.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:29 pm

I think we should give Cisse one more season - if no improvement then sell him
As for Pongole he is training with Le Havre at the moment so it looks like hes on his way.

by **adamnbarrett** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:32 pm

A.B. wrote:
kazza wrote:
LFCFan4Life wrote:There is no reason why my first touch is better than a professional footballer's.

The name might have changed, but the level of cr@p has not.

Kicking a ball against the wall in the playground on your lunch break should not be compared to a premiership match. Once again, the one that does not know, but does not know he does not know.

I'm not going to get into a slanging match with a igorant yet again. The exaggeration comment was made in order to get a point accross. How you fail to comprehend that is beyond me.

wow just noticed. A.B. is back not LFCforlife :buttrock

by **TheoRacle** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:35 am

thegreedo wrote:
Piewhack wrote:
GLB1 wrote:But just imagine all that pace combined with football skills... What a player that would be !!!

That would be Thierry Herny then...

if only!

I've done a whole post with all stats in the 'Cisse vs the rest' thread but in essence....

Owen's is the most clinical converting 66.67% of his shots into goals, Crespo is next on 29.63% and Fowler 3rd on 28.13%.

Owen's also the most accurate on goals with 77.78% of his shots hitting the target, then Crespo with 68.52% followed by Keane on 65.57%.

So taking the third ranked scores as something we'd be happy for Cisse to achieve and therefore the benchmark, if we apply these percentages to his total number of shots he would have scored 31 goals for the season in all comps. 54% more than he actually achieved. Mind you Henry would have scored 60, Fowler 11 and Keane 21 and Owen just 6. Conclusion - Cisse with Keane's accuracy and Fowler's finishing skills would indeed be awesome!

If however we take Henry as the benchmark and we apply his stats for % shots on target and % shots converted to Cisses' performance, he (Cisse) would have scored 18 goals for the season. Fowler would have 7, Keane 12 and Owen just 4. So both Cisse and Fowler have performed above expectations if we were 'only' looking for Henry type stats.

When you consider that Henry's played over a 1100 minutes more football than both Cisse and Keane and more than 3000 more than Fowler its pretty obvious that with more playing time Cisse would likely have scored more goals.

How some people can overlook the fact that statistically, Cisse has performed at a level at least consistent with those at the top of his field and call for him to sold on the basis of one or two missed chances and the occaisonally miscontrolled ball is beyond me.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:53 am

I've done a whole post with all stats in the 'Cisse vs the rest' thread but in essence....

Owen's is the most clinical converting 66.67% of his shots into goals, Crespo is next on 29.63% and Fowler 3rd on 28.13%.

Owen's also the most accurate on goals with 77.78% of his shots hitting the target, then Crespo with 68.52% followed by Keane on 65.57%.

So taking the third ranked scores as something we'd be happy for Cisse to achieve and therefore the benchmark, if we apply these percentages to his total number of shots he would have scored 31 goals for the season in all comps. 54% more than he actually achieved. Mind you Henry would have scored 60, Fowler 11 and Keane 21 and Owen just 6. Conclusion - Cisse with Keane's accuracy and Fowler's finishing skills would indeed be awesome!

If however we take Henry as the benchmark and we apply his stats for % shots on target and % shots converted to Cisses' performance, he (Cisse) would have scored 18 goals for the season. Fowler would have 7, Keane 12 and Owen just 4. So both Cisse and Fowler have performed above expectations if we were 'only' looking for Henry type stats.

When you consider that Henry's played over a 1100 minutes more football than both Cisse and Keane and more than 3000 more than Fowler its pretty obvious that with more playing time Cisse would likely have scored more goals.

How some people can overlook the fact that statistically, Cisse has performed at a level at least consistent with those at the top of his field and call for him to sold on the basis of one or two missed chances and the occaisonally miscontrolled ball is beyond me.

well said ...

by **gato_busta** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:37 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:
I've done a whole post with all stats in the 'Cisse vs the rest' thread but in essence....

Owen's is the most clinical converting 66.67% of his shots into goals, Crespo is next on 29.63% and Fowler 3rd on 28.13%.

Owen's also the most accurate on goals with 77.78% of his shots hitting the target, then Crespo with 68.52% followed by Keane on 65.57%.

So taking the third ranked scores as something we'd be happy for Cisse to achieve and therefore the benchmark, if we apply these percentages to his total number of shots he would have scored 31 goals for the season in all comps. 54% more than he actually achieved. Mind you Henry would have scored 60, Fowler 11 and Keane 21 and Owen just 6. Conclusion - Cisse with Keane's accuracy and Fowler's finishing skills would indeed be awesome!

If however we take Henry as the benchmark and we apply his stats for % shots on target and % shots converted to Cisses' performance, he (Cisse) would have scored 18 goals for the season. Fowler would have 7, Keane 12 and Owen just 4. So both Cisse and Fowler have performed above expectations if we were 'only' looking for Henry type stats.

When you consider that Henry's played over a 1100 minutes more football than both Cisse and Keane and more than 3000 more than Fowler its pretty obvious that with more playing time Cisse would likely have scored more goals.

How some people can overlook the fact that statistically, Cisse has performed at a level at least consistent with those at the top of his field and call for him to sold on the basis of one or two missed chances and the occaisonally miscontrolled ball is beyond me.

well said ...

Stats say nothing. You can't compare Cisse with Henry. Henry is one in a million. IMO the best striker in the world at the moment. He is the type of player that can get the ball in the middle of the field, beat the midfielders and defenders and score past the goal keeper while making it look easy. Arsenal would have accomplished nothing this season without him, he is the reason why they are in the Champions League final.

Now the only performance by Cisse that I remember as valuable this season was his supersub appearance in the Super Cup final. Of course he was extremely lucky that the chubby ref didn't notice his first goal was a hand ball (very clear one I must add) but since then, I don't recall any wow performances by him. The thing is When I picture Arsenal without Henry, I think of a mid-table team. When I picture Liverpool without Cisse I don't imagine we would have had much of a difference this season (probably Garcia would have made more appearances as a secondary striker and Pongolle would have had a fair share ammount of games under his belt, not to mention he would have stayed).

Also, according to your stats, wouldn't Fowler be a much better option than Cisse? If we compare the both of them Fowler cost the club literally nothing, Cisse cost 14 million and Fowler is 31 whilst Cisse 24. If our 31 year old striker is better than our most expensive singning ever then I can seriously see a problem with Cisse.

At the end of the day, if statistically Cisse performs consistently to the "top of his field", (putting feelings aside) who would you rather have in Liverpool Cisse or Fowler, Henry, Owen, Van Nistelrooy, Crespo, Keane, Rooney, Bent... not to mention players outside England. The fact is Cisse is not good enough, we deserve a better striker than him.

by **Espionage** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:50 am

Those shooting stats say nothing about his off the ball movement, his general link up play, these are his real problems that stop him from being a great player. Also do not ring up assists, it is the pass to Cisse (usually from Alonso) which gave him those easy crosses accross the box that is the real assist.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:31 am

The fact is Cisse is not good enough, we deserve a better striker than him.

He scored more than PC and Mori, and you said that Cisse still NOT good enough. So bottomline ( for you ) Cisse NOT good for Liverpool , as for Mori and PC are worst than Cisse because they have less goals.

by **Espionage** » Fri May 12, 2006 8:40 am

Your goal tally does not show how good a striker you are, I thought that had already been established..........

by **48-1119859832** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:27 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:
The fact is Cisse is not good enough, we deserve a better striker than him.

He scored more than PC and Mori, and you said that Cisse still NOT good enough. So bottomline ( for you ) Cisse NOT good for Liverpool , as for Mori and PC are worst than Cisse because they have less goals.

Whilst goals are an important part of being a forward or a striker they are not the be and end all of things. There is more to a strikers game than scoring goals. And whilst Cisse has scored more goals in less games than any other striker. He has squandered more than what he has scored, fact!

Sure any striker could put the ball in the back of the net with a total of 10 shots a match. There's bound to be at least one that flys in. Cisse more often than not wastes chances by smashing it as hard as he can at the keeper. Sometimes this works, most of the time it doesn't.

Now you can say that Crouch and Morientes have had a worse season but look at what Crouch brings to the team, he holds the ball up, he does well at linking up play e.g stting up Fowler against Bolton. Morientes does a similar thing altho I'll agree Morientes has had a disappointing season by his high standards but at times has produced flashes of brilliance, has Cisse?

The answer is simply no, he hasn't (he had a good match against CSKA Moscow & West Brom), that's it. His first touch is poor, his anticipation is poor, his vision and all round general awareness isn't good, he doesn't place his shots and Crouch's & Morientes' attitudes have been far superior to Cisse's.

Cisse was a good player for Auxerre and maybe if we had spent £2.5million on him than his 17 goals would be all worth while but whilst we paid £14million for a player branded as the next best thing in Europe he's been a major let down. We haven't got the best value for £14million, we were ripped right off there.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:01 pm

Now you can say that Crouch and Morientes have had a worse season but look at what Crouch brings to the team, he holds the ball up, he does well at linking up play e.g stting up Fowler against Bolton. Morientes does a similar thing altho I'll agree Morientes has had a disappointing season by his high standards

Sorry that is not i mean .... I just supporting TheoRacle comment "The fact is Cisse is not good enough, we deserve a better striker than him. " From what I learn from his comment are with Cisse scoring more goals ( and still NOT enough ) less than Mori and PC ( worst than Cisse ).

As for me that I still like Cisse to stay for next season. Hope that he will have more starting games and in the right position too.

by **Big Niall** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:13 pm

last year statistically Liverpool had better success when Gerrard was out than in so then we should sell him - as statistics are never wrong. right?

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