Liverpool FC Forum

by **big al** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:51 pm

I watched the news on BBC tonight, it gave a little insight into the current state of affairs in Thailand. Showed innocent people including a whole village football team that had been murdered by the army. Turns out the guy who wants to buy 30% of the club gave the order. Robert Mugabe eat your heart out. We sit on the edge of a cliff that could give us our biggest and worst fall yet. Sadly if this guy gets his 30% then I for one will do something I never in my life ever contemplated. I will turn my back on my beloved Liverpool.

Has the world gone mad? have we forgot why Liverpool FC was established? Have we forgot how the spion Kop got its name? what is happening?

Liverpool FC was born as a club in because football players wanted freedom from control of the church, they wanted to play there beloved game and not be moralised to. The club was established and born out of freedom of expression on the most democratic arena in the world, a sports field. Likewise the Spion Kop was named after a hill in south Africa were so many young men from Liverpool gave the lives for their country. Our history and are success have honoured these both noble causes. Yet today the selfishness of Moores and Parry seemed destined to dishonour everything that is Liverpool football club.

There are many of you who will not grasp the magnitude of what I'm saying because the fickle dream of winning the premiership is much more enticing than caring about the lives of some little village thousands of miles away. Well for me thats too much to pay.

You see after Heysel and Hillsbrough I never wanted to see another human being any way associated to Liverpool lose their life, not for all the premiership titles or all the cups in all the world. So if the money of the murdering ****** means success and if a LFC board accepts this then they too will have innocent blood on their hands and that's just too big a price for me to pay. I'd rather the club went bankrupt than take this mans money.

by **Dalglish** » Wed May 19, 2004 12:29 am

Excellent post Big Al and sobering reading my friend

We are supposed to be living in the civilised world and with an increasing awareness of ethics when we do business. Its a shame those ethics don't seem to have reached the ears of those on the Liverpool board.

Peewee, an Expat living in Thailand informs us that although like many of these countries Thailands legal system and punishment are harsh by our standards, that this PM has improved conditions a lot and his predecessor was worse !!!!!! Its a bit like saying that Kruschev wasn't as bad as Stalin who went before him

The bottom line is that its wrong but who are we (UK) to preach about morality when we bomb Iraq from 5 miles up in the air on the basis of a dodgy WMD inteligence file.

I am sad that Soccer has come to this, I'm seriously considering my future involvement at LFC, is not a threat by any means and if it was I would be heratbroken to have to carry it through................

by **SantaGiveHoullierTheSack** » Wed May 19, 2004 5:30 am

Don't believe ALL you see and read in short news report. I personally do not like Thaksin's money politics but this guy did improve Thailand's economy (after the crash in '97) and lifted the morale of most Thais. Thailand have suffered from years of political instability and corruption and Thaksin is a breath of fresh air (sort of...). His human rights record is not excellent and he did have a very gung-ho attitude towards the drug dealers and religious extremist. All well and right but the men carrying out the order has been high handed in most case that's where the problems lies. His government never owned up to any mistake which suggest a high-handed attitude in running the country.

Thaksin is not a Mugabe (otherwise my home in Bangkok will be confiscated

) so don't compare. This guy is a businessman first and politician second. He is not perfect but so are Blair and Bush. What can be said of Thaksin can also be applied to B & B ... don't you just hate politicians !

Lastly, the money to be invested into the club will not come from him or from the tax payers. Instead the funds will be raised by combination of lottery issue and Thailand Sports Authority (the "little details" to be ironed out to give the investment some form of legitimacy).

...and no, Thailand is not half as bad as it's being portrayed. Beautiful country, friendly people, great food, incredible hospitality. Pay them a visit this summer, it will change your view :;):

...and pick up a £5 replica LFC jersey just for kick

by **woof woof !** » Wed May 19, 2004 7:08 am

"Some people think football is a matter of life or death, it's much more important than that "
Shanks.

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:57 am

How any of you people can say you may "turn your back on the club" simply beggars beleif, and to be honest if you can you might as well fucck off now rather than wait and see if money is invested. Anfield does not need part time support, its about unreservedly followin LFC not when it fucckin suits you.

Big Al, I applaud your stance, but I feel I must correct you on a couple of things.

Liverpool Football Club was in all honesty born out of the greed of a local business man, who tried to use his standing and influence in the city to increase his personal wealth. When Mr John Houlding decided to purchase a scrubby patch of waste ground in the poor Anfield district of Liverpool, and increase the rent on the pitch 150%, (from £100-£250), the local team Everton, winners of the league the previous year, were not too pleased. When Mr Houlding then forced the club to sell only his ale, being the biggest local brewer, a civil war split the club in two. Everton then moved to new premises at Goodison Park and Liverpool was born. So the romance of your fight against the control of the church doesn't quite cut the mustard.

Also the spion Kop was named after a hill where many men from the busy port of Liverpool lost their lives, but it was during the Boer War, which was part of the British Empires attempt to impose itself and its beleifs and relegions on the whole of the world. Picture it, the year is 1899, and Queen Victoria has recently celebrated her Diamond Jubilee. The British Empire is at its zenith in power and prestige, however the High Commissioner of Cape Colony in South Africa, one Alfred Milner, wants more, as is the queen he is a greedy man and wants to gain for the Empire the economic power of the gold mines in the Dutch Boer republics of the Transvaal and the Orange Free State. The plan is also to create a Cape-to-Cairo confederation of British colonies to dominate the African continent. Now while I do accept that the Spion Kop was named after one battle where lots of scousers lost their lives fighting for their country, the fact of the matter is that their country was trying to opress and pilage other countries at the time. So If you use the name of the Kop as an argument against the Thai money then you are quite frankly being two faced and downright hypocritical.

This is not a personal attack, just that this is one of the arguments a mate of mine came up with the other day, and I did a little research to prove him wrong.

However, to use the tradgedies of Hysel and Hillsborough to argue your case is SICK. Please edit your response and delete this last bit.

by **SantaGiveHoullierTheSack** » Wed May 19, 2004 9:04 am

Good research work Leon...thanks for the info :cool:

by **112-1077774096** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:16 am

Dalglish, I actually live in Malaysia which is just below Thailand although I spend a lot of time in Thailand. Recently there has been a lot of trouble in the south of Thailand, just above the Malaysian border involving muslims. the Thai south is predominatly Muslim. The Muslims have been burning schools and attacking army and police posts. Two weeks ago they attacked the armed forces and the police but where met with an armed response. both side were armed and it led to the deaths of 105 civillians and 5 policemen.

A few days ago the Muslims again attacked and burnt 5 buddhist Temples. its an ongoin problem there. the point i was making about the legal system being harsher in Thailand that the Uk is based on the fact that the army and the police when under attack by armed people will just open fire, as would any soldier. its just more predominant here.

Apart from these troubles the Thai law is very similar to the Uk as are their penalties.I have alaw degree from the Uk so this is an area I am familiar with.
the sentences past down by the courts in Thailand are harsher and the prisons are obviousy worse than the UK, however we all despair when we see the light sentences handed down in the UK.

In Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore you are told on the plane that drug smuggling carries a mandatory death sentence so u have no excuse if you are caught.

Thai people are very nice people. Thaskin has made his money and good look to him, he may have been ruthless at business but show me a succsesful businessman who hasnt.

My suggestion ( this is not aimed at you Dalglish) is stop reading the gutter press in the Uk and listening To Amnesty, Amnesty will jump on any bandwagon just to highlight what they feel is wrong. sometimes they miss the bigger picture. to me its simple, 'if you dont want to get shot in Thailand dont become a drug smuggler, dealer or attack police and army posts when you are armed or not armed'.

After saying all this I still wish Morgans offer had been accepted as I feel it will be better for LFC Than Thaskins bid, but it pisses me off when people use irrellevent/wrong arguments to explain why a bid should not be accepted.

Guys, I didnt realise until I moved abroad how manipulative the press can be. Malaysia is a Muslim country, although its quite liberal I can see a difference in the press reports from Iraq to the reports from the UK press. The press can be used to make the public believe anything.

I'm fortunate to live in South East Asia and see at first hand the work Thaskin has done for his country, I work in the financial field and the difference in the Thai economy since he came to power has been immense.

If the board are accepting his bid then we also need to accept it, although the press out here has said there are now some stumbling blocks that need to be ironed out so its still not definite that we will accept his offer. Then what will we do? I cant see the board going begging to Morgan so we will be back where we started.

by **JohnBull** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:35 am

For Christ's sake grow up Leon you'll be blaming Scouse sailors for the bleedin slave trade next- as if it had sod all to do with the big black fellas selling their own kith and kin to big greedy arabs.
The facts are that over generations the game was forged by the working man and slowly but surely it has become a rick man's plaything. The great successes of the past were built on the backs of dockers or ford workers or anyone else who could afford the pay-in (its friggin different now). In London now the trendiest place to go for a scran and a pint is Stamford Bridge and you can look up and see the lot of them with their backs to the pitch they don,t even know the friggin team's name.
Well wonder balls Parry has just had a decent freebee in Thailand along with some parasite solicitor and whichever other hangers on went.They come back full of themselves "Job Done" then the supporters/Morgan/Newspapers/Radio start asking embarrassing questions and they are ****** because the whole job stinks!!! If this Thai guy is straight then I'll take full resonsibility for the wrongs of the British Empire/The slave trade/The religious inequalities of Victorian Liverpool and anything else.
COME THE REVOLUTION BROTHERS!!!!

by **112-1077774096** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:38 am

good points John Bull, to everyone else, read John Bulls post with 'land of hope and glory' playing in the background

by **haps** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:03 am

ha ha!! Nice touch of levity Peewee. Good one. Seriously, there's alot of good points made from both sides but I ultimately feel that it's sad Morgan's offer was rebuffed. It does matter where the money comes from and I for one, would prefer to see it come from a man who cares passionately about putting the club back where it belongs (or at least can name more than 2 players). Still, that ship's sailed I guess. There's little place for romance in football anymore and be sure of this, there's gonna be alot more faceless multinational corporations and dodgy tsars clogging up the corporate boxes of the land as this decade rolls on. Its business lads. Not to you and me... But that will count for less and less.

by **SantaGiveHoullierTheSack** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:18 am

peewee wrote:Guys, I didnt realise until I moved abroad how manipulative the press can be. Malaysia is a Muslim country, although its quite liberal I can see a difference in the press reports from Iraq to the reports from the UK press. The press can be used to make the public believe anything.

sorry can't help but taking this OT...reading the press in Singapore and Malaysia (next door neighbour) you can see a complete different perspective of reporting a same story. Which version is right we might never know. In UK, the press are only interested in selling papers so we sometime read stories that are half-truth or have their facts manipulated, all designed to boost the sale. Bottom line is not to believe everything you read in the papers !

Human rights?...wait till the full story of Iraqi prisoners abuse surfaces then it will finally hit us that the worst atrocities are practiced by those who preached them in the very first place.

~peace~

by **Big Niall** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:19 am

One of the best discussions I've come across on this post. Agreed with most of the original post, I wouldn't prostitute what the club stands for just for cash and trophies.

I also agreed with Leon (1st time for everything) about the British Empire and its Racism and agreed not being something to commemmerate as anything to do with "freedom", and most things "for your country" are immoral. You can apply that to the 19th century and today in Iraq.

Anyway, away from politics & history. I don't know the full backround on the Thai PM but he should be of good character (unlike Chelseas crook).

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed May 19, 2004 9:11 pm

What the fucck are you doing agreeing with me you t******.

Joking by the way Niall.

by **Woollyback** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:12 pm

Fcuking hell, a page full of politics...? - that tw*t Wollyback'll be posting here before you know it...... :;):

by **big al** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:25 pm

Leon you did'nt correct me on anything I said, if you read my thread again you'll see the only thing you did was elaborate. As for the young men who deid on the spion kop it matters very little to me what the ****** who sent them there where about, what matters to me is what those young men believed and why the old liverpool board choose to honour them. As for Heysel and Hillsbrough I think I'm quite right to talk about them. They are just two more examples who the loss of innocent lives that could have easily been prevented had greedy ****** spend money on safety, instead of lining their pockets. The owners of both grounds are primarily at fault along with the police and the men in dark suits who run football.

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