Liverpool FC Forum

by **thegreedo** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:52 pm

0asis wrote:I can't believe what I'm reading, some ppl would rather keep Cisse over Moro? w.t.f is going on here? Whilsy Cisse has improved and looks a slightly bigger threat on goal, his all round ability is non-existant. Morientes has all the ability and has also performed a little better in recent weeks. On top of everything else Nando like him or not looks a lot more committed to the team than Cisse does. Morientes wants to prove himself and doesn't go out DJ'in till 1am and doesn't spend more time designing clothes than focusing football, saying that I can't see Rafa giving up on Morientes. He never gave up on Kewell, so I can't see him giving up on Morientes.

I'll be shocked if Cisse stays.

Have to say Moro does seem to have struck up a bit of a partnership with Robbie when they both play. Not a long term solution though more of an alternative.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:58 pm

0asis wrote:Morientes wants to prove himself and doesn't go out DJ'in till 1am and doesn't spend more time designing clothes than focusing football,

That, my friend, is a sad indictment on Nando's season, then, because even the distracted, me-so-flash Cisse had a better campaign. Maybe Nando should get around town more!

Seriously, I've been quite disappointed with Nando because I've rated him for years. I was made up when he signed last January...I was sure he would do great things with the club and take us to new heights. After a stop-start season last season, I expected a proper pre-season with the club would see him sorted out and ready to make an impact. Sadly, that hasn't happened. Aside from his brace against Boro (including the lovely striker on your Avatar, Oasis) he's really had an anonymous season for us and I just don't see many signs--even in recent weeks--of him doing the business for us long-term.

The bottom line for me is that Cisse has put more goals in the back of the net this season than anyone in the team besides Stevie and, if I'm honest, that makes him worth another look. As I said above, if we find two affordable, quality strikers to replace both Nando and Cisse, I won't be sad to see the back of Djibril. But, if we can only buy one--and thus must keep one of these two--can you seriously say that Nando deserves to stay more than Cisse?

by **48-1119859832** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:07 pm

I think Moro deserves to stay and to me he looks as though he wants to stay, he's more professional than Cisse, his all round game play from anticipation to ball control, to intelligence is 10x that of Cisse. And sure Morientes hasn't been prolific in front of goal but I find it funny to see that after one season at Monaco every football fan seems to have this wild notion that Moro is a 20+ goals a season striker. But if you are basing the fact that Cisse's scored more goals than Nando therefore he should stay, shouldn't Crouch be sold as well?

After all Crouchy scored less than Cisse. I know Morientes hasn't had a good season and I like you thought a full pre-season to sort himself out, he sorted his fitness out but that was about it. But as I say I think Morientes brings more to the table than Cisse and I think Benitez knows this and will not sell him, altho as you say if we do get two quality strikers e.g Darren Bent & Martins or Defoe than I'd gladly ship out Morientes and Cisse.

But I really do believe Morientes can come good with us and I'm sure he'll stay until his contract expires whether fans like it or not, Rafa didn't give up on Kewell and look what happened?

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:32 pm

Well done to Cisse in getting 9 league goals. This is a very good achievement considering he doesn’t play much and when he does it is often on the right.

We all know that Cisse is a goal threat because he is direct and very selfish, and combine that with his pace and he will cause problems for opposition teams, but at the same time he causes a hell of a lot or problems for his own team.

For me, he simply isn’t good enough to play here if we want to move in the direction of winning the title, I would be surprised if he is here next season unless we cant find a reasonable bid.

by **gato_busta** » Wed May 10, 2006 6:02 pm

I seriously doubt that Morientes will be the one leaving in the transfer window. Rafa has said repeatedly that we will see the best of Morientes once he has better reception (from the right winger we are still waiting for). Probably we will see the best of Morientes once that winger joins the team (as well as Gonzales). I also think that the role that Cisse has in the team can be fullfilled by a better striker.

The only thing that Cisse has is pace. The other areas of his game are average at best. We already have Crouch and Moro who seem to be in the team more to assist the players around them and Robbie who kind of does that role also as well as taking advantage of any chance he has in the box (seems more dangerous than the previous two). Cisses role is that of the pacy striker who takes advantage of his speed to counter attack and also cause havok to the defense of the oposing team.

We all know that against lesser opposition Cisse gets the job done but against stronger teams, he is painful to watch. Because of this I find him as the weakest link of our strikers. He can break into the defense of weaker teams but cant do anything against a good back line. I don't see him doing a better job than Baros as a matter of fact. What we lack is a pacy striker who can break into the opposing defense.

If we bring that striker and also a right winger I dont see Cisse playing much at all. In fact, if they were both to stay I can picture Morientes playing more games that Cisse (especially since there will be soeone alreado on the right with Gerrard probably taking that position once in a while). Once we bring in the players we need I dont really see a place for Cisse in the team which is why I believe he will leave.

by **Garymac** » Wed May 10, 2006 6:12 pm

Oasis no how many occasions have you matched Morientes, Ok he has showed the odd flash (and i mean odd as in, maybe 4 or 5 times in a whole season).

He isnt good enough and isnt going to get better and doesnt offer us anything different.

Hopefully him and Cisse are both shipped out in the summer and we will get to watch proper big game strikers next season, hopefully a Bellemy or Defoe and maybe Kuyt to go along side him....Shame we missed out on Keane in January, id have loved to have seen him for us.

Most people will obviously come round on Cisse cos he has been scoring against sh!te teams lately but please just lok at his record against good sides, i mean not only does he not score, the lad doesnt perform, because he doesnt get space and he has the touch of a fu*king brick wall.

Rafa says the next step is to beat the teams around us in the league and im afraid Cisse will never ever help us do that.

Id keep him over Morietesthough if that was the option but i prefer the option of both leaving.

by **thegreedo** » Wed May 10, 2006 6:13 pm

gato_busta wrote:I seriously doubt that Morientes will be the one leaving in the transfer window. Rafa has said repeatedly that we will see the best of Morientes once he has better reception (from the right winger we are still waiting for). Probably we will see the best of Morientes once that winger joins the team (as well as Gonzales). I also think that the role that Cisse has in the team can be fullfilled by a better striker.

The only thing that Cisse has is pace. The other areas of his game are average at best. We already have Crouch and Moro who seem to be in the team more to assist the players around them and Robbie who kind of does that role also as well as taking advantage of any chance he has in the box (seems more dangerous than the previous two). Cisses role is that of the pacy striker who takes advantage of his speed to counter attack and also cause havok to the defense of the oposing team.

We all know that against lesser opposition Cisse gets the job done but against stronger teams, he is painful to watch. Because of this I find him as the weakest link of our strikers. He can break into the defense of weaker teams but cant do anything against a good back line. I don't see him doing a better job than Baros as a matter of fact. What we lack is a pacy striker who can break into the opposing defense.

If we bring that striker and also a right winger I dont see Cisse playing much at all. In fact, if they were both to stay I can picture Morientes playing more games that Cisse (especially since there will be soeone alreado on the right with Gerrard probably taking that position once in a while). Once we bring in the players we need I dont really see a place for Cisse in the team which is why I believe he will leave.

Here! Here! At last a vioce of reason among a sea of delusion!

by **48-1119859832** » Wed May 10, 2006 6:45 pm

Garymac wrote:Oasis no how many occasions have you matched Morientes, Ok he has showed the odd flash (and i mean odd as in, maybe 4 or 5 times in a whole season).

He isnt good enough and isnt going to get better and doesnt offer us anything different.

Don't partonise me, an opinion is opinion and all...

I watch Morientes everytime he plays and whilst he's not scoring enough and whilst his physical presence can be scrutinized, he does everything else to a good standard. The issue with Morientes is his lack of fire-power in front of goal. If he had scored 15 goals this season and 10 last season no body would be complaining about him.

Sure a player of his quality should be able to find the net on a regular basis but a player of Morientes' ability and class doesn't lose it, it may take sometime to surface it's self but it's always there. So your comment regarding "Morientes is not good enough and Morientes isn't going to get better" is a load of codswallop, quite frankly!

People said that about Kewell for well over a year and look, suddenly out of no where he clicked and he was doing great things on the left flank for us and now everyone is praising him over and over again.

Cisse in my eyes is a different matter altogether. He doesn't possess the intelligence of Morientes or even Fowler. He doesn't have a great first touch, his anticipation isn't good, his awareness is questionable. He doesn't set up chance, he doesn't link up play and whilst he has scored 17 goals this season his mind doesn't seem focused on the job in head. And like Morientes or loathe him, he does try his hardest every match and that's all you can ask.

But Morientes is a player known for scoring a large fraction of his goals from his head so with a right winger on the cards we should see more goals from Morientes.

However I must say Fowler does seem to be sitting behind the main striker, linking up play and getting into the box, all the traits that Morientes should be doing but as Benitez said "we need ideally two good players in every position" so therefore we aleady have two class players in that role.

If you base your argument on that anology than you could say that about Gonzalez and Kewell. You could say that about Gerrard & Alonso, Hamann and Sissoko etc.

I can understand ppl's frustrations with Morientes and Cisse in particular but whilst both player want to remain at Liverpool only one of the two have the ability and have shown the right attitude to remain here and that's Fernando.

by **Garymac** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:03 pm

Id love Morientes to prove me wrong but i know he wont, We need to cut are loses with both.

Surely you must want to see another striker than Morientes at the club or are you ready to accept one will be staying because lets face it, are strike force is the one major issue we need to solve during the summer, and if Crouch and Fowler are staying, then i cant see what Morientes offers us that they dont.

Cisse offers us pace, but thats it, and i very much doubt he will be here, i just think are attacking line up needs new fresh ideas and im sure Rafa will bring them in, you cant exactly say are strikers excite you and theres not one that gets you on the edge of your seat, we know what Fowler is capable of finishing wise but im talking about a young, energetic striker with bags of potential and possess plenty of ability to get us excited.

Point is, Morientes has nothing we dont already have, so him staying is ultimately pointless, In my opinion.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:06 pm

0asis wrote:
Garymac wrote:Oasis no how many occasions have you matched Morientes, Ok he has showed the odd flash (and i mean odd as in, maybe 4 or 5 times in a whole season).

He isnt good enough and isnt going to get better and doesnt offer us anything different.

Don't partonise me, an opinion is opinion and all...

I watch Morientes everytime he plays and whilst he's not scoring enough and whilst his physical presence can be scrutinized, he does everything else to a good standard. The issue with Morientes is his lack of fire-power in front of goal. If he had scored 15 goals this season and 10 last season no body would be complaining about him.

Sure a player of his quality should be able to find the net on a regular basis but a player of Morientes' ability and class doesn't lose it, it may take sometime to surface it's self but it's always there. So your comment regarding "Morientes is not good enough and Morientes isn't going to get better" is a load of codswallop, quite frankly!

People said that about Kewell for well over a year and look, suddenly out of no where he clicked and he was doing great things on the left flank for us and now everyone is praising him over and over again.

Cisse in my eyes is a different matter altogether. He doesn't possess the intelligence of Morientes or even Fowler. He doesn't have a great first touch, his anticipation isn't good, his awareness is questionable. He doesn't set up chance, he doesn't link up play and whilst he has scored 17 goals this season his mind doesn't seem focused on the job in head. And like Morientes or loathe him, he does try his hardest every match and that's all you can ask.

But Morientes is a player known for scoring a large fraction of his goals from his head so with a right winger on the cards we should see more goals from Morientes.

However I must say Fowler does seem to be sitting behind the main striker, linking up play and getting into the box, all the traits that Morientes should be doing but as Benitez said "we need ideally two good players in every position" so therefore we aleady have two class players in that role.

If you base your argument on that anology than you could say that about Gonzalez and Kewell. You could say that about Gerrard & Alonso, Hamann and Sissoko etc.

I can understand ppl's frustrations with Morientes and Cisse in particular but whilst both player want to remain at Liverpool only one of the two have the ability and have shown the right attitude to remain here and that's Fernando.

Yeah, don't "Partonise" him G-Mac...I don't like imagining Oasis with a blonde wig and giant fake tads!!!

Oasis, mate...

While I get where you're coming from with the Kewell analogy the big difference was that Kewell was carrying injuries during most of the time he was sh!te for us--a fact acknowledged by Rafa as the key reason why it took so long to see the best from him. Nando is carrying no such injuries as far as I've heard so there's really no excuse why he's failed to have an impact this season, after getting used to the league last winter and getting fit this pre-season.

There can be no disputing that he hasn't really done the business for us which leaves the question--will he ever? You're clearly convinced he will given more time. I'm not so certain and I'm not inclined to wait given that--as you insist elsewhere--3rd place is nothing for a club like Liverpool and we need to challenge for the title next season. Simply put, we cannot afford to carry Nando as a passenger any longer...which is what he's been most of the season.

For me it breaks down like this:

(1) Robbie: scores goals and creates them; works hard and is a positive influence on the dressing room...re-signing him was the right move.

(2) Crouch: scores a few goals but is more effective as a play-maker--someone who gives defenders problems, wins the ball and holds it up, and sets up others; plus his attitude and work ethic is spot on...he's got a big role to play for us next season.

(3) Cisse: has scored a decent number of goals this year and has changed a few games once he's come on; his attitude, however, is suspect, he lacks finesse and his decision making can be shocking; still he causes defenders (at least poor ones) problems and that makes him useful...IMO, he's worth keeping if there aren't better options.

(4) Morientes: a player of genuine ability and a top bloke as well, by all accounts; but, he's struggled to adapt to the game in this league, looks well off the pace, rarely gets in good positions to score and thus carries very little goal threat; yes, he does have some skill as a play-maker but Robbie AND Crouch are doing that job more effectively week in, week out so...I think he's surplus to requirements

Let's sell Nando to a La Liga outfit for both his sake and ours and bring in someone who's going to get us 25+ goals a season in all competitions to complement the others.

by **48-1119859832** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:16 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Let's sell Nando to a La Liga outfit for both his sake and ours and bring in someone who's going to get us 25+ goals a season in all competitions to complement the others.

Cisse was 25+ goals a season striker, didn't stop him from not adapting and even both Henry and Pires had some trouble adjusting to life in the Premiership. Yes I know I said that 3rd place is a position that isn't upto Liverpool standards but if we sign somone like Darren Bent and sell Cisse than we are sorted for goals because Gerrard, Garcia, Kewell, Crouch, Fowler and yes even Morientes will also chip in with the goals.

An interesting fact I picked up from .tv today. Liverpool have scored 101 goals this season. Not bad considering our strikers were baron for much of the season.

Perhaps Morientes will stay and perhaps he won't but I cannot see Benitez selling a player he admired for years and I don't think Rafa will give up on Morientes until the end of his current contract and if Morientes wasn't a hit than Benitez will accept it.

As for your comparison of Kewell, the last season under Houllier I don't believe Kewell was injury riddled and yet he faded away, had a tremendous start to the season but by the end of it ppl were slating him left, right and centre.

Morientes started off pretty well and has fizzled out but I still think he will deliver and if he fails too than I'll admit it but I refuse to give up on him just yet.

by **woof woof !** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:16 pm

It's like fkin toy town in here ! So I may as well join the bunfight .

All our current strikers will still be here next season , with the addition of one other . (Don't rule out the return of another hero )

You heard it here first folks .

by **48-1119859832** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:22 pm

woof woof ! wrote:It's like fkin toy town in here ! So I may as well join the bunfight .

All our current strikers will still be here next season , with the addition of one other . (Don't rule out the return of another hero )

You heard it here first folks .

Let me guess you being the wolf 'n' all have insider information and if you're referring to Owen than he will get no support from me, I'd rather pay 6million for Darren Bent than £8million - £16million on Mickey "My leg hurts" Owen.

by **woof woof !** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:24 pm

0asis wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:It's like fkin toy town in here ! So I may as well join the bunfight .

All our current strikers will still be here next season , with the addition of one other . (Don't rule out the return of another hero )

You heard it here first folks .

Let me guess you being the wolf 'n' all have insider information and if you're referring to Owen than he will get no support from me, I'd rather pay 6million for Darren Bent than £8million - £16million on Mickey "My leg hurts" Owen.

Stop taking yourself and your life in here so seriously FFS . :kungfu:

by **48-1119859832** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:27 pm

I'd thought I'd be precieved by ppl in the opposite light...And I did put a joke in there Mickey "My Leg Hurts" Owen, so cut me some slack, I don't take everything so seriously. :laugh:

But if you are talking about Owen than I hope it doesn't happen. As far as I'm concerned he had his chance last summer and didn't take it, therefore he's missed out.

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