Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:55 am

Been thinking about the transfer money that Rafa needs to be given to let us challenge the likes of Chelsea, Mancs etc...
Houllier was reported to have spent around 150 million over his period in charge, and dont forget the likes of Fowler, Owen, Carra and Gerrard where all from the academy so therefore we got the backbone from our squad basically on a free.

His successfull buys where Hamann, Riise, Hyypia, Henchoz, Finnan, (Kewell Rafa has got the best out of him). So why when we had a french manager where the french players flops?
Pongolle apart, but I dont think he is the answer either to start every game upfront but probably the most promising french player we have at the club. And if rumours are true he wont be a Liverpool player next season.

Le Tallec now at relegated Sunderland and Salif Diao at Pompey :Oo:

Le major flop Diouf 11 million sold for 3 to Bolton 8 million pound loss.
Cheyrou, Diarra, Medjidani Im sure theres more french speaking players but cant think off the top of my head now.

So why where they flops? Where they good players before they came to Liverpool or generally not good enough anyway?
Was it the manager who could'nt get the best out of them? Or was the tactics wrong?
Out of them players mentioned could they put their hand on their heart and say they love LFC? Would they have loved to spend the rest of their careers at our club, NO CHANCE.

This was Houlliers downfall for not scouting properly and not being involved in the academy, and he didnt take to kind to the old bootroom that wanted to give him advice, when Rafa arrived he asked to see the scouting videos of the likes of Biscan and Cheyrou, but there wernt any? Very strange indeed.

So Houlliers spending spree, has forced the club into being careful as to what transfer kitty's are available for Rafa.
Rafa said last week that he had to sell Milan Baros because we needed the money surely a club of our magnitude is not short of 7 million pound?
Or was it just Rafa not wanting to say that Baros wasnt his type of player and didnt want to hurt Baros's feelings?

Atleast with Rafa when he buys players and they arnt up to scratch and cant cut the mustard they are moved on, the likes of Josemi, Pellegrino, I know its early days yet but he seems to be ruthless in that sense, Houllier just sent them out on loan whilst the club still payed half of their wages.

This is not a slagging off of Houllier cause he would love to walk back into LFC tommorrow, He said "You can take me out of Liverpool, but you cant take Liverpool out of me".
I know he was very hurt to leave, but we needed to break into the top 3 and he took us as far as he could and I thank him for that.

But now the club has to back Rafa 110% procent to keep him here like they backed Houllier, my only fear is that they are a bit wary of giving rafa the run of the cheque book.
Incase he goes back to Spain and we have an exodus of the players he's bought, and we would have to start all over again from scratch, from backroom staff to the players.

But the only way this is going to happen is if the board dont give him the backing and a big war chest so he can bring in the players he requires for us to challenge the best and make Liverpool into the team that no body wants to face.

by **Mark 23** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:53 am

Excellent post Ciggy. That's why I supported Rafa when he was meant to have given the club an ultimatum (rumoured in the paper). If the board can't back him then there is no point him being here.

We are just a few players short of a really good team and the board need to provide.

by **thegreedo** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:31 am

Top post CIGGY, don't forget Diomede and Ferri, what world beaters they were. You have to say you can't blame the board for being a little cautious bearing in mind the amount of money that has been wasted at Anfield over recent years but I do think Rafa must surely be building their trust with what he has achieved so far. I am also encouraged by the way it appears Rafa will not be bullied into paying over the odds for a player regardless of how tempting it may be he is strong willed and will not be taken for a ride. This for me proves the man has a real confidence in himself to succeed looking for long term gains rather than quick fixes.

As Mark 23 said we are only a few players away from a real title challenging side so I just hope the board can alay their fears and give the manager the funds to bring such players in. If they do the futuer could be very bright indeed. I agree Houllier did well in taking the club as far as his abilities would allow but I genuinely feel Rafa has the quality to take us that step further.

by **66-1112520797** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:36 am

I dont think dragging up Houlliers flop signings are going to achieve anything as it's all in the past, the Houllier flop thing has been done to death. We brought in a new manager knowing we've got to go about things a little different this time around.
Could you really blame the board though if they were a bit reluctent into giving Rafa a blank chequebook ?
After what happened before I couldnt, at the same time though I'm not sure if I believe the story where Rafa is supposed to of giving the board an ultimatem. He knew the score when he first joined and compared to what he went through at Valencia I dont think he has any problems with the board.
One other thing I would like to add about the money situation, Liverpool have alway's given there managers the backing and funds with buying players. I think people are reading to much into things and the fact of the matter probably is that we genuinly dont have the money to spend big.

by **red37** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:39 am

next week the transfer window opens.. and mssrs moores and parry will be well aware of the significance of the hand they are about to deal rafa. it is key to the signing of an extension of his contract.

rafa already has shown his true colours by squashing any rumour of an early return to spain.. thereby identifying the job at liverpool as his sole concern. it is imperative the board not only provide funds in order for the manager to implement his plans effectively. they must also assure the fans they are still ambitious and competent enough to carry the club into a new era.

the proposed stadium is obviously eating into the coffers in a big way, this isnt helping matters on the pitch. however, as bitter a pill as it is to swallow....the time has come and will be as plain as day to all and sundry affected with the progression of liverpool football club, that the investment option must now be exhausted in order to compete at the very echelons of this league. sad, but fact.

it is going to be an interesting month ahead........

by **neil** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:41 am

What about the Germans? They were ok, Babbel and Reidle.... not much scouting required there mind......hhmmm....I'm the reason this forums goin downhill.

by **red37** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:48 am

neil wrote:What about the Germans? They were ok, Babbel and Reidle.... not much scouting required there mind......hhmmm....I'm the reason this forums goin downhill.

they bombed our chippy!

:laugh:

by **el_stinger** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:51 am

I don't think bringing this up again is going to be anything but unconstructive.

There have been many threads before which has a go at Houllier and the millions he spent, wasted. The man did bring about success, and we don't go around making threads praising him for that do we?

Yes, he did bring some flops. Yes, millions of pounds have been wasted.

But!!

Yes, the board have made funds available for whoever Rafa wants in the off season, and Yes, they will continue to give the same support they gave Houllier, if not more.

I'm not having a go at you Ciggy, not at all, but I think it's high time that we all leave Houllier where he belongs, and that is making Liverpool a real force to be reckoned with, and making us a success. And he deserves far more credit than what we are giving him at the moment.

by **JC_81** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:53 am

It's an old debate this. Everyone knows Houllier squandered a lot of cash, whether the improvements he undoubtedly made at the club were worth that amount of money is questionable. Is this impacting on Benitez's transfer dealings now? I don't believe so.

We can't go out and spend 20 million on a player, but we never did, not even in the days when crazy money was thrown at Houllier for players. As far as I can tell the board have backed Benitez in every player he has gone for, vast improvements have been made in the squad. But now the squad is that much better, the question is do we go out and buy a couple of top names to finish the job off - we're at a similar point now to when Houllier signed Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou over Duff and Anelka. What does Benitez do?

To be honest I think talk of him getting a 'warchest' is nonsense. But he will get enough. He pulled players like Sissoko and Alonso out of nowhere (I know Alonso was an International but how many here can honestly say they knew that much about him?), and I won't be surprised if he does the same again. Gonzalez is looking more and more of a snip at the 3-4 million we've paid. I expect another 3 players to come in within the 4-8 million pound bracket (2 forwards and 1 wide player) plus maybe this Aurelio guy on a free. Granted quality strikers are harder to get on the cheap than any other type of player, but you never know.

Benitez isn't one to spend huge amounts on a player, remember managers can be crucified when big money buys go wrong, and Houllier a great example. I would think that the board would be more keen to spend over 10 million on a player (e.g. Owen last summer) than Benitez would. People will call for the board to 'back Benitez' this summer, but when you look at it I don't think that has ever been a problem, it does not seem to be Benitez's policy to buy established stars for big money - and when you think about it this has never really been the Liverpool way either.

by **Mark 23** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:57 am

thegreedo wrote:Top post CIGGY, don't forget Diomede and Ferri, what world beaters they were. You have to say you can't blame the board for being a little cautious bearing in mind the amount of money that has been wasted at Anfield over recent years but I do think Rafa must surely be building their trust with what he has achieved so far. I am also encouraged by the way it appears Rafa will not be bullied into paying over the odds for a player regardless of how tempting it may be he is strong willed and will not be taken for a ride. This for me proves the man has a real confidence in himself to succeed looking for long term gains rather than quick fixes.

As Mark 23 said we are only a few players away from a real title challenging side so I just hope the board can alay their fears and give the manager the funds to bring such players in. If they do the futuer could be very bright indeed. I agree Houllier did well in taking the club as far as his abilities would allow but I genuinely feel Rafa has the quality to take us that step further.

Rafa does seem to have his head screwed on, but it is documented in Robbie Fowler's book and I have heard John Aldridge on the radio saying that Liverpool have a been a few players short of success for years, how many years is open to discussion. Although we have won a lot of trophies since we last won the league, the league is the one that this club wants, the greatest team in the world needs to show that.

We have to give him the backing but Rafa has brought so much to Liverpool and I understand that the board are concerned that he might go one day, and there will be a big gap left, the backroom staff and the Spanish lads.

The promising thing is that he is gaining their trust, and although he is not like Jose Mourhino, I think he is very determined to be remembered but in a more subtle way, Rafa won't leave until he has established himself amongst the best Liverpool managers, Rafa won't be happy until he is spoken about in the same breath and Shanks, Paisley & Fagan. He is a very proud man and very determined, he won't be bullied in the transfer market.

At the same time, you must realise that Chelsea can buy whoever we target, just so we don't get them, simple as. I think Chelsea are seen now as a place where players careers don't thrive, they stall, hopefull SWP has learnt this and other players will see this, meaning that players will want to play football, not just pick up their cheques. These will the type of players who we want at the club, those who want the instrinsic rewards. Prehaps I am being a bit of a idealist.

by **Mark 23** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:58 am

red37 wrote:
neil wrote:What about the Germans? They were ok, Babbel and Reidle.... not much scouting required there mind......hhmmm....I'm the reason this forums goin downhill.

they bombed our chippy!

That song by Stan Baordman is pisspoor

by **red37** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:00 am

now you leave stan alone.. hes sound.

anyway (rap it might be... it shits all over embrace.

by **Ciggy** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:03 am

Bamaga man wrote:I dont think dragging up Houlliers flop signings are going to achieve anything as it's all in the past, the Houllier flop thing has been done to death.

Theres been nothing but moaning about no new footie topics, because theres no much to write about cause things are going so well, after defeats in the past the forums been flooded, I made this topic cause I could'nt think of anything else to talk about this morning, but you are right its been done to death.

by **Mark 23** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:03 am

red37 wrote: now you leave stan alone.. hes sound.

anyway (rap it might be... it shits all over embrace.

The song is poor, but as a fella, he is meant to be proper sound, my dad's mate went to school with him and said he was a funny barsteward.

Embrace are proper :censored:

by **Mark 23** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:08 am

Ciggy wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:I dont think dragging up Houlliers flop signings are going to achieve anything as it's all in the past, the Houllier flop thing has been done to death.

Theres been nothing but moaning about no new footie topics, because theres no much to write about cause things are going so well, after defeats in the past the forums been flooded, I made this topic cause I could'nt think of anything else to talk about this morning, but you are right its been done to death.

Prehaps it has been done to death, and despite what you all might think it is still haunting us now, GH is one of the reasons the board are being tight with the money. Look at the money we have lost of some of GH's purchases, we lost around 8 million according to one poster on here on Diouf, any football club would miss that kind of money.

The man brought us a lot of good times but then he spent a lot as well. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

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