Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:16 pm

The Ace1983 wrote:
*_Ruthless_* wrote:Cisse is just lacking confidence at present...

Couldn't agree more. He's lacking confidence... and skill, vision, a first touch, positional sense, natural ability, a work ethic...

Too true

by **72-1146193975** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:17 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
The Ace1983 wrote:
*_Ruthless_* wrote:Cisse is just lacking confidence at present...

Couldn't agree more. He's lacking confidence... and skill, vision, a first touch, positional sense, natural ability, a work ethic...

Too true

the how do you explain his scoring 17 goals this season?
This is like cisses first season here as last season he was out for the major part of the season with a broken foot.

proof

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:21 pm

At this point views on Cisse have become quite polarized and middle ground is going to be very hard to find...

Cisse's backers will point to his 17 goals as proof of his contribution and will argue that he's spent most of the season out of position and lacked confidence as a result. Yes, they will even post links to Cisse highlight reels--like our mate Hot Sauce here--to illustrate Cisse's ability.

On the other end of the spectrum are the Cisse bashers: the ones who are convinced that he's nothing more than a track star in footie boots. They are the ones who bemoan his awareness, positioning, first touch, decision making and general attitude.

Call it fence-sitting if you like but I fall somewhere in the middle, although definitely more toward the critics' end of the spectrum. IMO, Cisse has the ability to be a decent forward somewhere, just not at Liverpool. At times he does show a decent touch, a nice shot and, as always, an electric burst of pace. All of these things will serve him well as a first-team forward somewhere else. I doubt he'll ever become a top scorer in England like he was in France but I think he'd be an asset to a number of teams in the league.

Having said that, I just don't think he's good enough for Liverpool. His inconsistency is the first strike against him and I don't just mean from game to game. Yesterday was a great example. One minute he's sprinting 30 yards after a lost cause to take the ball off Melberg in the corner, bear down on goal and then slide the ball across to Crouch for a gilt-edged opportunity (which Crouchy should have done much better with). Outstanding! The next minute though he collects the ball on the right, cuts inside and plays a lazy, underhit pass toward Alonso (if memory serves) which is intercepted and sparks a Villa move that almost ended in a goal. That inconsistency from minute to minute is Cisse in a nutshell for me and one of the reasons why he's not good enough for Liverpool.

The other main reason is that, while he has the ability to scorch a team like West Brom (or even West Ham when Anton Ferdinand is played at right back), he's ineffective against the top clubs. Cisse was woeful against Man U at Old Trafford in February (and it wasn't just because he missed a sitter). He was just as bad against Chelsea when he came on in the semifinal last weekend. That's simply not good enough. To be fair, none of our strikers has been a house on fire against the top sides this season but with Crouch, Robbie and even Nando you get more graft and guile in the big games, which may be just as important because defending from the front and holding the ball up takes the pressure off the defence and helps bring the midfielders into play. There's not enough of this graft in Cisse's game, I'm afraid.

The bottom line for me is that the lad can play but that his footballing attributes and attitude really don't suit us that well. Like Baros before him, he needs to move elsewhere. He'll get my vote of thanks for the contributions he has made--including the 17 goals this season--but I doubt very strongly that I'll give him much thought after he's gone.

by **andy_g** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:32 pm

against all my better judgement i'm beginning to think that there might even be a shred of hope for cisse. he scored a couple of golas against west ham even though the goalie made a pig's ear of each of them and his confidence has taken a boost - check the backflip celebrations for instance. there was something about his demeanour on saturday that suggested he was beginning to believe in the talent that he has and he had the odd few moments that made me think, 'hang on a sec...'.

the guy indisputedly has talent that he is finding difficult to unlock for himself and i agree with bad bob's previous post in that the inconsistency is the most frustrating thing. but there have been more and more flashes recently, especially when he is playing and coming in off the right wing. i haven't got a clue whats bringing all this on - its far too late for him to pick it up for a world cup spot, its far too late for him to convince most fans here, it may be far too late to try and convince the manager - so i don't believe it is anything as conscious as that.

my only guess is that the guy is finally beginning to believe in himself properly and as a premiership player and that he can bring something to this team. if he can maintain that frame of mind while eradicating the inconsistencies then there might just be a decent player in the making. whether we'll see it happen here or not is another matter.

by **red37** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:32 pm

i like cisse for determination and eccentricity (2 attributes to be savoured on the pitch) if the chance to channel them comes about. and tbf, he hasnt exactly been used as well as possibly he could have been.

i dont like cisse for his lack of team awareness and technical shortcomings.

as a striker he may well thrive in the right environment/system. and if he goes, id wish him the very best of fortune. he hasnt found the liverpool ethic easy to translate however and no matter how hard done by he must feel because of that, unfortunately and particularly, at the price he came at, there lies his most identifiable weakness of them all....adaptability.

yes i admit he has a reasonable return in goals:games. due credit to that. any (so-called) striker would get good chances with good supply.

but lets face it, there isnt a prolific 'world' class striker at liverpool at the moment to compare those figures against.... and until there is, cisse will of course be championed/criticised. he and fowler are mostly what we have to get by with in goal poaching terms. the midfield/defence rightly have to take the plaudits for this season.

overall and personally i like the player, frustrates the life out of me. but generally he's done.... O.K

but surely a footnote must read......OK isnt good enough!

by **stmichael** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:48 pm

17 goals is a decent return but lets face it, I could have scored most of his goals. Half of them were against woeful opposition and were either toe poked through the keepers legs or just blasted. Ask yourself the question. If he went through one on one in the last minute of the FA Cup Final, would you be confident of him scoring?

For 14 million quid we deserve a lot lot more. I want genuine class...someone who can create out of nothing. Apart from the Everton goal, I can't think of any individual brilliance he's produced all season.

Plus he lacks basic control and football intelligence. We also lambasted Baros for this but at least he worked his a$$ off for the team. Cisse does it when he can be bothered, which lets face it, isn't often.

He'll be gone come the summer. Someone will be stupid enough to pay us silly money.

by **The Ace1983** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:38 pm

Hotsauce wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
The Ace1983 wrote:
*_Ruthless_* wrote:Cisse is just lacking confidence at present...

Couldn't agree more. He's lacking confidence... and skill, vision, a first touch, positional sense, natural ability, a work ethic...

Too true

the how do you explain his scoring 17 goals this season?
This is like cisses first season here as last season he was out for the major part of the season with a broken foot.

proof

Well, first thing's first: It was his LEG he broke in two places and I can appreciate that it was always going to take a while to get back to anything near top form, but a whole season? And if it hasn't happened yet, when will it? If we're gonna be pushing for the title next season, can we afford to be carrying a player through it, taking the valuable place of a top class striker?

Secondly, look at the teams he's scored against, and the competition. It's hardly a who's who of the top flight. He gets goals against the weaker teams and we need someone whos gonna score against Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal.

by **Garymac** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:46 pm

Whats Cisse ever done for us against a top side??

This is my point with him, for 14 million he aint good enough and should produce the goods against better sides than he does for his price tag.

17 is a good return but look at the opposition, you spen this money on players to do it on the big occasion, if i had to pick between Luis and Cisse to play in a big game, it would be the little man every single time.

But Cisse is not on his own here, the same goes for Morientes, neither has done anything against a top side, simply not good enough.

by **red37** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:08 pm

Garymac wrote:But Cisse is not on his own here, the same goes for Morientes, neither has done anything against a top side, simply not good enough.

that was my exact thoughts yesterday. im made up that nando slotted home, dont get me wrong. same as cisse last week... but you have to say, the teams they score against are not the top sides.

(of course what matters is that one of them scores the winner in cardiff) then in some way this conversation will be null and void.

even cisse/nando single handedly grabbing the glory in a fortnights time wont change the fact that neither are suited to the liverpool way. shame, but painfully obvious.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:22 pm

Well most people will know that I don’t rate Cisse as good enough to play for us. He has too many weaknesses to play at the top level. Control is way to inconsistent, technique is poor, rash finisher, movement is poor, not a very intelligent footballer, etc. What he does provide is pace and a direct mindset. Now most of the time this direct mindset works against him, has a detrimental affect in the team, and he takes stick for it. But his pace combined with his direct style of play means that he will always be a goal threat, but overall he costs the team too much in other things to be able to play here.

He has spent 2 years here, has suffered a broken leg, spent a lot of the time watching from the bench, played on the right wing, played in many different systems and played in a much more advanced league and advanced style of play. I hope he can take a lot from these 2 years and it will make him a better player. His biggest problem is that he doesn’t seem to improve as a player, does he lack the intelligence to learn or is it that he just has too big a chip on his shoulder? We will never know.

He has scored 8 league goals this season, and I think that is good achievement considering he has spent a lot of time on the bench or on the right. I fully expect him to leave in the summer if we can find a buyer, hopefully a fee of above 7Mil and a club that can guarantee him regular football.

by **Judge** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:09 am

Garymac wrote:Whats Cisse ever done for us against a top side??

This is my point with him, for 14 million he aint good enough and should produce the goods against better sides than he does for his price tag.

17 is a good return but look at the opposition, you spen this money on players to do it on the big occasion, if i had to pick between Luis and Cisse to play in a big game, it would be the little man every single time.

But Cisse is not on his own here, the same goes for Morientes, neither has done anything against a top side, simply not good enough.

aye gary, a shoulder shrugging donkey. cisse's on the right in the picture :laugh:

by **Rafa D** » Tue May 09, 2006 7:37 pm

Cisse Pledge

After reading this is got me thinking. I know Cisse has frustrated the hell out of a lot of our fans .Me included. The Utd at OT and Semi against Chelski he looked clueless.

BUT he has scored 17 goals mainly from the bench or RW. I think he is ok but I don't want him here next year. But when he is saying things like this, it seems he might stay and just sit on his £50,000 a week contract. Do you think he will stay?
Does Rafa want him? Do you want him? How long should he get to prove himself?

by **helsbyred** » Tue May 09, 2006 8:23 pm

Sadly it looks like Cisse will join an extensive and expensive list of Houllier flops in the transfer market.
When Rafa signed on in the summer of 2004 he said that he admired Cisse from afar in Spain and considered buying him . obviously back then Benitez did not command the authority and respect he holds know and I think you will see whether he really rates him or not.
On the credit side he has battled back from a career threatening injury , kept his bottle in a penalty shoot out and scored a fair number of goals this season..
On the debit side he can be anonymous in games ( Bolton home ) , ineffective ( Man U ) or completely on a different planet ( Chelsea ). He lacks composure in front of goal on too many occasions and frequently fails to spot his team mates.
I think Rafa has given him a fair crack of the whip but with Robbie getting an extension I think Frodsham's finest will be heading for the departure longe.

by **Judge** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:41 am

i'll be glad when we sell cisse, then this thread can be deleted

by **ALONSO** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:57 am

To sell Cisse would be a mistake he is the fastest player in the premiership. Fair enough his finishings not been great but thats probably a confidence thing and atleast hes in the right positions to score goals. The fact that there 20+ pages on the subject suggests alot of people are still unsure that selling him is the right thing to do,he deserves regular starts as a STRIKER then if hes not performing after a fair chance we should thimk about selling him.

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