Liverpool FC Forum

by **woof woof !** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:58 pm

[B]WE ARE ONLY TWO PLAYERS AWAY FROM BEING PERHAPS THE BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD ! , I WOULD PIT OUR DEFENCE AND MIDFIELD AGAINST ANYBODY . UNFORTUNATELY OUR STRIKE FORCE IS NOT OF THE SAME CALIBRE .

SOME OF YOU MAY SAY "HOLD UP WOOF,THE STRIKERS HAVEN'T BEEN GETTING THE SERVICE THEY NEED/DESERVE " FAIR ENOUGH ,IN WHICH CASE YOU THEN SURELY HAVE TO QUESTION RAFA'S VISION AND TACTICS ?
. DEFENSIVELY WE LOOK AS SOUND AS ANY TEAM YOU CARE TO NAME ,IN MIDFIELD WE ARE ORGANISED ,STRONG , CREATIVE AND EFFECTIVE . WE PLAY SOME BRILLIANT ONE TOUCH FOOTBALL.
PRETTY TRIANGLES ,CUTE PASSES AND AN AWARENESS OF WHERE EVERYBODY IS
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THAT KILLER BALL IN THE FINAL THIRD OF THE FIELD TO A FORWARD WHO CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING WITH IT WE LOOK DISTINCTLY AVERAGE .
IS THAT BECAUSE WE JUST LUMP IT IN AND HOPE ? OR ON THE OTHER HAND TRY TO PLAY CUTSIE GIVE AND GO BALLS AMONGST A PACKED DEFENCE ?
OUR STRIKE FORCE LOOKS AS MOBILE AS A SLUG CRAWLING UP A SAND DUNE .

IMHO IF WE WANT TO CAPITALISE ON THE FOUNDATION WE HAVE IN OUR DEFENCE AND MIDFIELD IT'S TIME FOR THE BOARD TO BREAK THE BANK AND SORT OUT OUR STRIKE FORCE.

(CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER WHERE WE'D BE IF THE BOARD HAD SWALLOWED THEIR PRIDE AND STUMPED UP THE MONEY FOR MICHAEL OWEN )

by **JBG** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:29 pm

bigmick wrote:
JBG wrote:The problem is not really with the strikers, is it?

Sorry JBG I don't buy it. I know we aren't creating many one on ones, but against the types of teams we are playing certainly in the last three games you're not going to. Good defences don't concede many clear cut chances, but good attackers carry threat.
Remember the Man U game on Saturday morning. They didn't make a chance all game because we defended really well. Doesn't mean there was no threat though. Doesn't mean that Van Nistelroy didn't get open in the box, run into intelligent areas from free-kicks and make my heart miss a beat every time the ball went accross the area. Doesn't mean that we weren't on the edge of our seats when Rooney got the ball in and around our box. That's threat.
Check out the goals in the Prem every week. How many of them are pure, clear-cut, teams being ripped apart chances? Not many I can tell you. Unless teams are chasing the game and leaving themselves short at the back, they can defend and don't get pulled all over. Goals are made by a clever piece of movement, a piece of skill, a fient to get infront of the guy who is marking you.
Look at our last three goals. Hyppia's was a bit if a freak where a ball hoisted back in drops on him and he scores with a scuffed volley. Garcia made his goal with his alertness and clever movement to get himself open in the box. He got lucky with the rebound but was open in the box through movement. Crouch got open in the box through good movement and finished with a good header. You have to give a little as a striker. it's not good enough to stand around in the box and say the service was sh!te. Come in short, spin and go. Attack the near post when a cross comes in, gamble FFS do something. Last night Cisse gets pushed wide, gets his foot round it and gets a cross in. Straight into the keepers arms. Poor service but where was everybody else? Covered in the box, nobody open and nobody prepared to take a gamble ad go front post ahead of the keeper. It's not just that our strikers are not scoring, it's that they don't look like scoring.

Its not as simple as that.

Are you telling me that Robbie Fowler and Fernando Morientes, two proven strikers with over 300 career goals between them, don't know that as a striker you should take gambles?

by **GOAT** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:50 pm

JBG wrote:
bigmick wrote:
JBG wrote:The problem is not really with the strikers, is it?

Sorry JBG I don't buy it. I know we aren't creating many one on ones, but against the types of teams we are playing certainly in the last three games you're not going to. Good defences don't concede many clear cut chances, but good attackers carry threat.
Remember the Man U game on Saturday morning. They didn't make a chance all game because we defended really well. Doesn't mean there was no threat though. Doesn't mean that Van Nistelroy didn't get open in the box, run into intelligent areas from free-kicks and make my heart miss a beat every time the ball went accross the area. Doesn't mean that we weren't on the edge of our seats when Rooney got the ball in and around our box. That's threat.
Check out the goals in the Prem every week. How many of them are pure, clear-cut, teams being ripped apart chances? Not many I can tell you. Unless teams are chasing the game and leaving themselves short at the back, they can defend and don't get pulled all over. Goals are made by a clever piece of movement, a piece of skill, a fient to get infront of the guy who is marking you.
Look at our last three goals. Hyppia's was a bit if a freak where a ball hoisted back in drops on him and he scores with a scuffed volley. Garcia made his goal with his alertness and clever movement to get himself open in the box. He got lucky with the rebound but was open in the box through movement. Crouch got open in the box through good movement and finished with a good header. You have to give a little as a striker. it's not good enough to stand around in the box and say the service was sh!te. Come in short, spin and go. Attack the near post when a cross comes in, gamble FFS do something. Last night Cisse gets pushed wide, gets his foot round it and gets a cross in. Straight into the keepers arms. Poor service but where was everybody else? Covered in the box, nobody open and nobody prepared to take a gamble ad go front post ahead of the keeper. It's not just that our strikers are not scoring, it's that they don't look like scoring.

Its not as simple as that.

Are you telling me that Robbie Fowler and Fernando Morientes, two proven strikers with over 300 career goals between them, don't know that as a striker you should take gambles?

I agree! just thought i'd add that!

by **johnny b the great** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:08 am

we're really not creating quality chances for our strikers. Moro has always been a goal poucher who trives on quality crosses or skillful strike partner (Raul). The reason Cisse doesn't play is when we create quality chances he makes a mess of them, he never score one vs one with the keeper (i can think of 4 such misses easily) never attacks rebounds or just bangs them away (man u) the guy is just not a natural goal scorer.

by **TheoRacle** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:25 am

bigmick wrote:It's about making yourself difficult to play against. If Owen had been playing last night, when the ball goes wide he'd peel back three yards and when the defender glances over his shoulder and eases back he's dart back infront of him and show for the cross. The cross might not even come in but the defender thinks "feck me for a fraction of a second he was in there". Next time it goes wide same defender is feeling for Owen, trying to maintain a physical contact so he can cover his movement. Owen gives the ref the eyes before darting in and going over in a heap. Nothing doing but the defendrs heart misses a beat. Next time it goes wide Owen goes in to the near post early and then peels out and around at pace looking for the ball clipped over.
If his strike partner is Yakubu, he's working the channels. Pace and power so anywhere infront of him and he'll get it giving you a great big target for your out-ball. Soon as it's fed into Alonso he's on his bike looking for the ball towards the corner flag, when it comes he's big strong and powerful and you can all get around him. The defender can't take liberties because if he does, he'll get muscled around and turned. When Owen goes back then darts near, Yakubu stops in his tracks then attacks anything that comes accross the area on the run, going through defenders and brick walls to get on the end of anything that flies accross the box.
You could use different examples for the identity of the strikers, and sometimes they won't score. But this is threat. This is what creates panic in opposiotion defences and is what really good teams posess in abundance. we have everything other than this.

Good post bigmick...spot on actually. Maybe we could send that to our lot for some tips.

by **bigmick** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:36 am

Of course its "not as simple as that" and I really never tried to give the impression it was, sorry if it came accross that way. However, neither is it as simple as saying the service is poor. If you don't get the movement and the interplay right, the service will always be poor.

Watching the Chelsea game tonight told it's own story. First half you've got Crespo, spinning off his man and running in behind at every opportunity. They got him in three or four times but each time he was given offside, one dubiously. It didn't take a fantastic piece of play to get him in, just a ball slid through into his path. You know what he's trying to do and it's easy to see why he scores goals wherever and whenever he plays. He's not the quickest (though probably quicker than Fowler, Crouch and Morientes) but relies on cunning and anticipation to get himself into goalscoring positions.

Second half you've got Drogba. A lot on here don't rate him but I'd have him over any of our strikers in a flash TBH. He had two chances. One was where he recieved it from a throw-in, chested it down and with body strength and power got himself a shooting opportunity which went narrowly over. A throw-in is not service in my book, it's merely a means of getting the ball back into play. Would any of or strikers have got themselves into a scoring position from there? no. The second and better chance was where he pulled off his man and was played in by Gudjohnson with a good pass, service. He should have done better but he did open the door for the pass with his pulling away from the central defender.

At the other end is E'to who looks a superb player each time I see him. he comes away from the central strikers slot and links up with play, has pace, power and agression and always provides a threat. His goal was a very good one froma fantastic cross and I'm sure many will say Nando would have scored from there given the quality of the cross and the paucity of Ferrera's defending. Maybe, I'm not going to be uncharitable and say that Morientes has lost all ability but you don't often see him attacking headers the way E'to attacked that one. Maybe he would've scored it though I'll give him that.

The thing that riles me somewhat, is given the lack of firepower we are displaying I think you have to look at combinations. The stand-out one that many people have hilighted which we haven't seen yet is Crouch/Fowler. On the face of it you would think it would work and I'd be hopeful. I criticised fowler for the first time after the Benfica game as I thought he was listless but his movement is the best of all our strikers by a country mile and Crouch would appear to be a potential partner. Another that has worked in the past is Crouch/Cisse. I wouldn't say it was a match made in heaven but at least they did occasionally combine and score a goal or two. My own hunch is that Fowler and Cisse might work. I think the subtle touch of Fowler may just be able to nudge and deflect the ball into the path of the onrushing Cisse, though obviously after that literally anything could happen. You've probably guessed where I'm going with this by now but I can't see a combination with Morientes which works, not in English football and certainly not with any of our strikers. Who is the first striker that Rafa puts on the sheet? we all know who it is and it's got me totally baffled I can tell you.

by **Sabre** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:42 am

At the other end is E'to who looks a superb player each time I see him. he comes away from the central strikers slot and links up with play, has pace, power and agression and always provides a threat. His goal was a very good one froma fantastic cross and I'm sure many will say Nando would have scored from there given the quality of the cross and the paucity of Ferrera's defending. Maybe, I'm not going to be uncharitable and say that Morientes has lost all ability but you don't often see him attacking headers the way E'to attacked that one. Maybe he would've scored it though I'll give him that.

Etoo didn't have his best night, he's even better than that. Drogba is a great player. And they both are better than our strikers. But bigmick, you're commenting players like Crespo, Drogba, Etoo. The best of the neighbourhood. If our strikers aren't scoring, it's not because they're :censored:

, of course they're not Etoo, but we defo must do things better in the service we provide our good/very good strikers (not top class). Look at the cross that Etoo finished for instance. Half the goal was the cross.

by **bigmick** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:54 am

Sabes I'm only comparing to E'to, Drogba and Crespo because I was talking about that game. Basically, we can all go around the houses with this and arrive back at the same spot. Out of our strikers, I think Crouch is very good and with the right partner and service is a proper handful. Out of our strikers he would be the first on my sheet every time. Fowler despite being a shadow of what he was at his very best is still good and should start alongside Crouch IMHO. Give him chances or the opportunity to make his own chances and he will score goals of that I have no doubt.
The other two in my humble opinion ain't worth a carrot. Out of the two I would go with Cisse because at least he has some pace and may score the odd goal here and there. For Liverpool, in English football even if we completely designed our whole mode of attack around Morientes's needs I cannot envisage any situation whatsoever in which he would score regularly. Given this I would try and make an effective combo out of the other three.

by **Judge** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:40 am

simolonge wrote:
dawson99 wrote:A message to benitez.
You are class....

but...

Find two strikers, and stick with them for more than 20 minutes (sarcastic time, i know its more)

ow are the strikers ever gonna gel if they are never playing together?

And how come mori will get game after game to sort out his confidence when Cisse is lucky to get half an hour?

finally, it the way we play? do we just not give strikers a chance?

Im just off with the way our strikers have all been playing, and trying to find answers.

A message to Dawson 99.
You should be in class....

but...

Rafa will probably not read this or take any notice.

simonlonge, stop being a total tosspot

no wonder youve got a warning card

what an idiot you are, stupid little boy, you are indeed

dawsons a good lad

by **Ciggy** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:09 am

I dont really want to say this BUT I fear the second leg against Benfica, I dont fear them, I fear we wont score enough goals, ultimatly knocking ourselves out.
I think the strikers are not being utilised in the correct manner to enable them to score all 4 cant suddenly turn bad over night can they?
Morientes was playing as a midfielder against Benifica how the feck is he supposed to score from there?
Time for a rethink in tactics Im afraid otherwise whats the point in breaking the bank for any world class striker if our game play isnt set up that way to have any forwards in the box ?

by **Judge** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:13 am

ciggy, i think rafa got a harsh lesson the other night. I firmly believe that his tactics for the return match will be spot on. I think he will use crouch and fowler up front, in a four four two formation

i dont think Benfica will be good enough to handle anfield, and will not score, but i do feel extra time may beckon......we will see

stay focused ciggy and dont worry..........lfc will progress in the end, unlike chelski

by **redmikey** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:35 am

ciggy , i think rafa will play steve gerrard in tghe middle so our goal threat will be back, i agree that we don't look likely to score 3 or 4 at the moment and if we set up in the same manner i don't think we will concead but i also can't see the strike force doing their job.

this thread is a good read, watching the game last night i was watch crespo thinging that is what we need, a threat all of the time but he didn't get much of a look in so it is not the best game to watch him in.

messi was out of this world not many player will play on the same team as ronaldino and make him look average

and wasn't it funny to watch a player role around after hardly being touched... unlucky jose life's a bitch. " do bad thing and bad things happen to you " my name is earl

by **Judge** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:45 pm

my name is earl ?? wtf mikey

by **dawson99** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:22 pm

my name is earl judge. channel 4 friday 10pm... great sit com

and yes, rafa will get it right at anfield

by **Judge** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:23 pm

im out tonight, tape it for me dawson

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