Liverpool FC Forum

by **redmikey** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:51 pm

cissie confidents is and obvious issue

but the lad showed plenlty of heart to come back of his leg break, so getting over being down in the dump should be a doddle, let us not forget we are talking about sportsmen who are at the very top of there trade and not some fat kid in school who didn't get picked for a dinner time kick about.

my thing with cissie is the lack of talent more than the lack of confidents. it is not like when he playes he is always getting into goal scoring positions and missing. he just goes missing and complains about passes that aren,t perfect, which at first i thought was just gaelic temper but it is just plain old winging.

ciggy i don't really remember the usa tour much apart from seeing owen playing well and thinking he might not go now we have got a new manager. ah well that didn't happen.

best out come for lfc and cissie is that he plays well in the games rafa selects him for to get his shop window value up and we get Owen back home asap. i know he is not widely loved on here but he is missed big time. the lad is world class and wants to come back 100% we would have a field day with team in the prem with his ability to be in the right place every time.

by **Sarge** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:58 pm

Do you guys think that Cisse probably would shine under GH? Coz I don't see any 14m-player quality in him ever since he's here. He did score some goals for us but TBH not a 14m worth at all.
And then the argument of buying expensive players vs. quality. COST VS. BENEFIT
It is a risk to splash sum of money for high-risk, unknown player like cisse (he's unknown to most of us all before he joined liverpool)
But ,
Why think twice for proven and quality player like owen? I still feel that RB made a tiny mistake for not landing him the deal. Yes he would cost us a plenty but let's speak of the opportunities that he would be giving us.[U]

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:05 pm

Ciggy wrote:Been thinking about from now till the end of the season, and whats install for Cisse?
If he hadnt have been injured and Michael Owen would have stayed things could have been a lot different.

I remember the pre season tour in America 2 years ago where Cisse and Owen where on fire we battered Celtic 5 -0 and a few others to mention, it seemed like we had found a great partnership, but it wasnt ment to be MO left and Cisse broke his leg a few months later.

He got fit before schedule when he shouldnt have retured till this season, everyone was singing his praises and the determination he made to get back long before it was due.

So what changed? What happened in them months from us winning the CL.
Immediatley he found himself up for sale, because he was the most saleable player at the club that his services where no longer required to fund the return of boy wonder, as he was about to come onto the pitch all a very angry Cisse could hear from some of our supporters was "Theres only one Michael Owen"
Was this fair? I think not.

An angry Cisse scores 2 and assists Garcia to make it 3-1 for us to go on and win the cup that looked like evading us.
Still mooted for sale or on loan within that transfer window, plus the January one, would effect any player I should imagine its different if a player WANTS to leave but he didnt neither did Milan Baros.

My question is if he hadnt have been told he was surplace requirements, would we have seen another side to this player?
Its all in hindsight now, but I feel the club didnt help with the situation cause look at the problems we are having now, with none of the strikers scoring in 2006.

What will happen with him between now and the summer transfer window? He will want to score goals to get his place for France in the WC, but on the other hand he wont want to do Liverpool any favours either or will he? That he will fight to stay? Or is it all to late?

Either way we stand to loose an awful lot of money on this player in the summer, what does everyone think?
Will he take this opportunity when he's given the chance?
Or do you think its to late in the day for any reconciliation?

Firstly I wouldn’t read too much into the performance against Celtic, also I couldn’t really see Owen and Cisse forming much of a partnership, maybe Houllier knew that Owen had his mind on a move away from Anfield and saw Cisse as a player that could be nurtured into a replacement.

It is great that Cisse battled back strongly from that broken leg and showed determination to back on the pitch, but I wouldn’t use that as a reason to give him any special treatment.

After Houllier got sacked and before Rafa even arrived, Rick Parry said that the Cisse deal would be going ahead anyway. When Rafa eventually arrive he said that he was a great admirer of Cisse, in my opinion Rafa was talking out of his @rse, could he really say anything else after we had spent 18 months watching him and shelling out 14 Mil? Basically his hands were tied, but my suspicion is that Rafa would never have considered buying him for Liverpool if no deal had already been agreed and he was offered him at that price a couple of weeks after he arrived.

I don’t think the fact that he now knows that he is not wanted has made a massive difference. To be honest after watching him for a couple of months before the injury I was disappointed to see his lack of progression, he seemed to be missing the basic ability to learn and improve, even in the summer of 2005 I still thought he didn’t have a long term future at this level, especially not in a Rafa Benitez side.

If I was Cisse I would be begging Rafa to teach me how to be a better player, but that doesn’t seem to be the case, he is expecting the team to adjust to him, but that just isn’t going to happen at this level of football. When Rafa was talking about Carragher this year, he said a great thing about him is that he hasn’t got an ego and this has been a big factor in him improving because he is willing to listen and learn, and he has the intelligence to learn, I think this was a bit of a indirect jab at Cisse.

If a good offer had come in by now, and a good replacement was available, he would have left by now. If Cisse is any sort of footballer he will do everything he can over the next couple of months to either ensure he gets more chances at Liverpool or put himself in the shop window, if he just sulks and doesn’t do well then he is hurting both Liverpool and himself, and he would go down even more in my esteem.

I don’t see anyway he can stay at Liverpool because he simply isn’t good enough, for me that is a FACT rather than opinion. We are going to lose an awful lot of money on him, but thats business I guess.

by **stmichael** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:06 pm

Sarge wrote:Do you guys think that Cisse probably would shine under GH?

It's an interesting question. Cisse would probably have thrived under GH mainly because at that time we were playing counter attacking football which would utilise Cisse's pace perfectly.

by **jonnymac1979** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:18 pm

stmichael wrote:
Sarge wrote:Do you guys think that Cisse probably would shine under GH?

It's an interesting question. Cisse would probably have thrived under GH mainly because at that time we were playing counter attacking football which would utilise Cisse's pace perfectly.

Probably yes, in that style of play. But in all likelihood, if we're going with ideas like this, we wouldn't have Steven Gerrard, Michael Owen and Xabi Alonso. Robbie Fowler wouldn't have came back denying us a bit of elation you need sometimes.

Or a fifth European Cup.

We'd also probably have Dion Dublin, Joey Barton, and Danny Murphy all in the first eleven, would probably still be playing square balls all over the place to contain a 1 - 0 nil lead at home. We'd still have s*i*e clogging up the reserves, Cheyrou, Daio etc....

Hang on, I'm ending this there, I'm starting to come out in cold shivers..........

No thanks.

by **Robbie Fowler is Back** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:38 pm

Cisse's probably the best of the bunch ratio wise, that we have. playing him on the right is a bit silly though as he's unlikely to score from there.

Cisse's best position is up front. just drop crouch who struggles to score, and ive give cisse a run of about 5 games solid to see what he can do.Id' play Fowler and CIsse up front with Garcia dropping off and then see how it goes.

Anyway, I think Morientes is Rafa's favorite, probably cause he is spanish too! Might be his drinking buddy, who knows. it's the only reason I can think of, as he's useless as well! No offence.

4-5-1 formations are just a joke by Rafa, especially at home and especially when you play Crouch up front who can't score!
Is that Daft or what?

As for Crouchie, playing hijm as a target man, when he can't head a ball either is quite silly.
There was some doubt over Crouch at the start of the season with people saying...."is he out of his depth at LFC"..

That question has been answered in my book.
I think Fowler or Owen, would have scored 3 times as many goals in as many games by now.

:no

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:53 pm

It is isn't it.

by **Sarge** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:54 pm

Absolutely spot on coz I personally think that not many players can be 100% flexible to every style of play. Stevie G on the other hand is a fine class example of a footballing genius. Genius under GH and without a doubt increased by many folds under RB.
I see many players have been improving under the management of RB which translates him as a genius manager. So, what happened to cisse? Is he no longer interested in the club? Rumours said that pako is sicked and tired of cisse's attitude. If it is of any truth, why waste our precious time to hold on to him much longer?
We need to have players with passion just like rafa's thought on fowler ~ " I've never seen any player so excited in joining a football team like fowler".
Enough said.

by **Paul C** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:58 pm

I think we should sell him, ok he's fast but he misses too many sitters, his first touch is poor and so is his vision, plus he complains too much, I wish Djibril would just bin off this fancy lifestyle and the stupid hair and learn to play football cos thats his bread and butter

by **drummerphil** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:00 pm

I had alot of time for Cisse after he had that nasty broken leg last season.He seemed to be putting 110 per cent effort in to get himself fit and he was making all the right noises.It seemed from the outside looking in he was only getting the odd 20 minutes here and there because Rafa wanted to ease him back into things.
When he came on and scored twice in the supercup final i for one thought his recovery was complete and he would go on in leaps and bounds from then on.It didnt happen and members on here like Ciggy and myself fully supported the guy and thought he was getting a rough deal and generally messed about by Rafa.
Now to be honest Rafa has been proven right and maybe i let his injury cloud my judgement.In times of hardship and adversity when life seems like its kicking you in the face,you can go two ways.
1. you can hide away,feel sorry for yourself and play a bit part in life.....or
2. you can fight to the death to prove to people you are "the man" a major player and the future is going to be special.......

sadly for Cisse he picked option 1,and from that his confidence is shot and he looks anything but a Liverpool player.Rafa you could say could be partly to blame for this but Cisse hasnt helped himself with his moaning and gripeing and general body language.It seems its got to the point now where its even affecting basic attributes of a forwards game,his touch,vision and running into space has been woeful.
I believe in the summer he will go and he needs to ,to revive a career that 2 years ago looked very fruitful,the lad has gone and him stagnating is doing himself and the club no favours.
As for Crouch,Nando etc...thats a different thread entirely.

by **Boocity** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:19 pm

I personally do not think Cisse has the neccessary qualities that Rafa looks for in a striker, his finishing is poor and his only asset is pace, I agree with St Mick, cisse would have thrived under GH.
Contrary to many others on this forum, I am in fact a big fan of Morientes, the guy is pure class and a proven striker. I know he has not hit the net as often as expected but he does not really get the service he needs, his movement is excellent, we know he can shoot and head the ball (maybe he should give PC some lessons on heading) all he needs is the service (and half a yard more pace), I say player Morientes and Fowler tonight.

Sorry to go off subject but I am a bit fed up with all the Mori bashing.

by **Rafa D** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:39 pm

Dibril Cisse came to the club as our biggest ever signing. £14m for the top scorer in the French Premiership for 2 years running. His pace was electric and shooting very powerful and precise. What has gone wrong?

What has happened to D. Cisse , we spent £14m on this young brilliant striker and I for one was very excited at the prospect of him playing for us. For what I had seen and heard , he was the next big thing and looked immense.

How could our scouts have been so wrong. I know Gerrard Houlier was re-nowned for bad buys - Chreyou, Diao,Diouf.
But Cisse was £14m , a club record for christs sake!!!

He had a bad injury , I know but my overall evalution of D.Cisse is this:

1) A very, very fast young strikers, explosive off the mark
2) Finishing is hit and hope, no placement or direction.
3) Has the first touch and ball control of a baby elephant.
4) A whinging , moaning, egotistical waste of space.

:veryangry

by **ivor_the_injun** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:51 pm

I'm really torn on Cisse, because on the one hand I'd like to see him get a run in the side up front so that we can see what all the fuss was about. If we sell him without this happening, I'll always wonder if we didn't persevere with him enough.

On the other hand, it's almost ridiculous how many clear openings, particularly one-on-one situations with the keeper, he's p*ssed away with an appalling first touch. Ditto, the way he takes so long to get back with the play after a chance has gone begging, either shaking his head for five minutes, holding his hands to his face as if him ballsing up was the most shocking thing ever, etc, etc, etc.

A lot of it is almost certainly lack of confidence. A fair amount of it can probably be put down to a lack of composure, and I'm sure others will argue that a complete lack of ability covers everything about the lad and more. For me, he looked good in early season, and I was looking forward to seeing what he'd bring to the team over the entire Prem campaign.

It's almost a carbon copy of the Diouf situation. Diouf came in after a barnstorming World Cup, scored a quality brace against Man City, and then suddenly found himself either out of the side or bunged out on the right wing. That (coupled with off-disciplinary problems) continued until he was sold for a pittence to Bolton, where he looks a pretty good player. Cisse's future at the club now seems to me to be as a stop-gap right winger. I think Rafa's take on him is that, as a striker, he's completely disposable as far as the squad is concerned.

It's a very, very frustrating situation. His pace can cause havoc, but at the same time it does often seem to be all that he's got to offer, and his attitude really, really needs working on. He lacks the kind of work ethic the rest of the squad has in spades, and it reflects on him really quite badly.

Right now I wouldn't be massively disappointed if he left, although I do thing he's been a little harshly treated in comparison to Morientes, who I think is also now on borrowed time. Morientes to me has been almost anonymous since he arrived, apart from a couple of good, matchwinning performances.

For me, Crouch and Fowler will turn out to be our first choice partnership. Crouch and Cisse - on paper - should be interesting, and maybe even Fowler and Cisse is worth a look. Cisse doesn't work up with Morientes, however, and to be honest we should look at offloading Mori before worrying about Cisse. I expect both to leave in the next year, however.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:13 pm

jonnymac1979 wrote:•Starting a thread purely to antagonise Lando Griffin last week, causing ME problems because when he logs on you would start taking abuse which you would inevitably complain to me about, leaving me to sort out a mess you started in the first place.

Sorry mate - Had I known he was making your life a misery, I wouldn't have risen to it.
I'll just ignore the punk in future - I didn't realise he was THAT much of a turd!!!!!

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm

I think 'turd' should be word of the year

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