Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:21 pm

The boss is at the start of a 5 year plan - he's what 18 months in and said when he arrived he inherited a poor squad, with no balance and no belief. Our reserves finished bottom and the U-18 's next to bottom last year.

We are the reigning champions of europe and once again in the last 16 of the champs league and 3rd in the league with games in hand on everybody having already played our the other top 4 sides home and away.

The squad still lacks balance especially on the right as everybody in europe knows but we have the best 'make do' right midfielder on the planet in that role at the moment.

We have a far better reserve and U18 set up.

We are nearing the end of what on paper are our most difficult run of games for the season and we've already played more games than Spurs will all season. If we are a little frayed at the edges then its probably understandable

Rafa got out of Valencia because of board interference - he loved his job, the supporters and his winning team - and was very upset to leave - here he has uprooted his family to a different culture and made an incredible success of his time here, he has repeatedly stated how he would like to stay here 10 years and has the full support of the board.

Why would he want to leave a job only partially completed - we all know we need a right wing, functioning strikers and possibly a left back to be able to compete on an even level with Chelsea - even they can't buy them all - that time will be next year or the year after but it will arrive and it will arrive under Rafa and it wil be interesting to see if Maureen hangs around when its an even contest.

Now is the time for faith not when things are going well but when the doubts surface... come on you red men (that includes rafa btw) :nod

by **ynwa** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:17 pm

[quote]The boss is at the start of a 5 year plan - he's what 18 months in and said when he arrived he inherited a poor squad, with no balance and no belief. Our reserves finished bottom and the U-18 's next to bottom last year.
didnt some one else say it was a five plan=gerrard houiller

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:26 pm

I'd be a lot more worried if we weren't creating chances and having long spells where we're dominating games.

Last season, particularly away, there were countless games where we looked utterly lost, and completely unthreatening. I can't think of a single game in the last few months where that's been the case.

Rafa's got us playing a much, much higher quality game of football. That's more than half of the battle - the results will inevitably follow.

by **DrTNT** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:33 pm

stmichael wrote:The boss is at the start of a 5 year plan - he's what 18 months in and said when he arrived he inherited a poor squad, with no balance and no belief. Our reserves finished bottom and the U-18 's next to bottom last year.

We are the reigning champions of europe and once again in the last 16 of the champs league and 3rd in the league with games in hand on everybody having already played our the other top 4 sides home and away.

The squad still lacks balance especially on the right as everybody in europe knows but we have the best 'make do' right midfielder on the planet in that role at the moment.

We have a far better reserve and U18 set up.

We are nearing the end of what on paper are our most difficult run of games for the season and we've already played more games than Spurs will all season. If we are a little frayed at the edges then its probably understandable

Rafa got out of Valencia because of board interference - he loved his job, the supporters and his winning team - and was very upset to leave - here he has uprooted his family to a different culture and made an incredible success of his time here, he has repeatedly stated how he would like to stay here 10 years and has the full support of the board.

Why would he want to leave a job only partially completed - we all know we need a right wing, functioning strikers and possibly a left back to be able to compete on an even level with Chelsea - even they can't buy them all - that time will be next year or the year after but it will arrive and it will arrive under Rafa and it wil be interesting to see if Maureen hangs around when its an even contest.

Now is the time for faith not when things are going well but when the doubts surface... come on you red men (that includes rafa btw)

Totally agree with all you have said St. Mic, Rafa is still building his team and that takes a while. Yes he is nearly there but we all know there are a few key positions to be filled:

striker
RW
CB (for cover)
LB

Maybe a new centre midfielder if Hamann leaves in the summer and I think Cisse and Traore will be shipped out.

We have already played 42 games so far this season therefore it should be expected that the players are a bit jaded. Hopefully the players can last the season at a high enough level to secure either 2nd or 3rd, which would of course be an improvement on last season.

by **haps** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:38 pm

ynwa wrote:
The boss is at the start of a 5 year plan - he's what 18 months in and said when he arrived he inherited a poor squad, with no balance and no belief. Our reserves finished bottom and the U-18 's next to bottom last year.
didnt some one else say it was a five plan=gerrard houiller

Yer nit-picking lad. 5 year plan or not (and I think that's mike's quote NOT Rafa's), we're flying compared to a couple of years ago. I've not posted here for a long long time but I know that this is a time to be positive about the club and where it's going. The players do look a bit flagged the last couple of games, and that's no real surprise but it's important to stay with it. We are potential champions in 2007, maybe 08 but it is gonna happen. I think if we have a problem, as all fans who watch the games week in week out know, it's sorting out the front line. Nando isn't working and much as I like him, neither is Cisse really. CL semis and cup winners this year and f**k it, if we finish 3rd, we finish 3rd, we'll still be in Europe but personally, I think we'll pip the Mancs by 1 point. In other news, Maureen and his c**t puppy dog Robben are on my list.

by **Robbie Fowler is Back** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:15 am

I personally think that we are going to have the same problems for possibly the next 3 seasons at least. A problem called Chelsea.

Chelsea are a formidable force at the moment, and I can see them getting stronger in the next transfer window. going out and buying another 20m + Signing.

Rafa thinks we can win the league on the cheap, I have to disagree. Money talks and thats a fact. Chelsea haven't got where they are by "accident". They've paid top whack, bought the right players, and are in line for 2 titles in a row.

Why do you think clubs pay 16m for Owen, 17m Ruud Van Nistlerooy or 20m Rooney. You know your money is safe. Peter Crouch 6m was it? I mean....no offence but! How many's he scored to date? I didn't even want us buy him. I dont care if he does hold the ball up well, he has to hit the net when he plays up front.

Chelsea can outbid us or anyone, for anyplayer, and someone in here mentioned Dean Ashton? You are joking of course?
:laugh:

With the arrival of Agger and Kromkamp, we've got good reinforcements.
But we need class up front.
Im telling you, I disagree with Rafa that we can win the league on the cheap. Rafa is only a human being, he is not GOD! I just dont like all this "believe in Rafa" nonsense, like he is a religion or something. people need to be realistic.
This seasons target was supposed to be a a lot closer to the 30 odd points last season, but because we cant score, it's cost us big time.

Im counting 16 years with no title, how many more.

by **A.B.** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:54 am

Robbie Fowler is Back wrote:I personally think that we are going to have the same problems for possibly the next 3 seasons at least. A problem called Chelsea.

Chelsea are a formidable force at the moment, and I can see them getting stronger in the next transfer window. going out and buying another 20m + Signing.

Rafa thinks we can win the league on the cheap, I have to disagree. Money talks and thats a fact. Chelsea haven't got where they are by "accident". They've paid top whack, bought the right players, and are in line for 2 titles in a row.

Why do you think clubs pay 16m for Owen, 17m Ruud Van Nistlerooy or 20m Rooney. You know your money is safe. Peter Crouch 6m was it? I mean....no offence but! How many's he scored to date? I didn't even want us buy him. I dont care if he does hold the ball up well, he has to hit the net when he plays up front.

Chelsea can outbid us or anyone, for anyplayer, and someone in here mentioned Dean Ashton? You are joking of course?

With the arrival of Agger and Kromkamp, we've got good reinforcements.
But we need class up front.
Im telling you, I disagree with Rafa that we can win the league on the cheap. Rafa is only a human being, he is not GOD! I just dont like all this "believe in Rafa" nonsense, like he is a religion or something. people need to be realistic.
This seasons target was supposed to be a a lot closer to the 30 odd points last season, but because we cant score, it's cost us big time.

Im counting 16 years with no title, how many more.

A league title can't be won without not spending a lot of money? In La Liga there are the two strongest financial teams (in Europe and in the World). Do I even have to mention their names?

Despite the fact that those two had been on another planet compared to Valencia financially, Valencia won the league twice with a manager called Rafael Benitez.

First of all when Man Utd bought Van Nistelrooy or when a club buys any foreign player, no one can guarantee that player will succeed. He's proven that he's worth the money Utd paid for him but like any foreign player there was doubt over paying so much money for a player outside of England. [the purchase of Veron shows that nothing can be for certain]

Newcastle United payed 17 million for Michael Owen, he's scored 7 goals in 10 games. That's a good ratio for any striker, but he's missed 95 percent of Newcastle's season. What good is he to them if he's on the sidelines? Owen is getting into the part of his career where injuries will be the only thing that will prevent him from playing consistantly.

The huge amount of money they payed for Owen prevented them from improving at the back and in other areas. But because Souness is Souness, he spent most of his budget on one player.

by **The_Rock** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:57 am

Valencia
Rafa inherited a valencia team which already had Ayala, Vicente, Aimar...etc. So he didn't need to spend big to win the liga title.

Liverpool
Rafa inherited a liverpool team which had many :censored:

players (diouf, diao...etc).....He has managed to clear a few of them. But he needs to spend money to bring in quality players.

by **babu** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:52 am

Robbie Fowler is Back wrote:I personally think that we are going to have the same problems for possibly the next 3 seasons at least. A problem called Chelsea.

Chelsea are a formidable force at the moment, and I can see them getting stronger in the next transfer window. going out and buying another 20m + Signing.

Rafa thinks we can win the league on the cheap, I have to disagree. Money talks and thats a fact. Chelsea haven't got where they are by "accident". They've paid top whack, bought the right players, and are in line for 2 titles in a row.

Why do you think clubs pay 16m for Owen, 17m Ruud Van Nistlerooy or 20m Rooney. You know your money is safe. Peter Crouch 6m was it? I mean....no offence but! How many's he scored to date? I didn't even want us buy him. I dont care if he does hold the ball up well, he has to hit the net when he plays up front.

Chelsea can outbid us or anyone, for anyplayer, and someone in here mentioned Dean Ashton? You are joking of course?

With the arrival of Agger and Kromkamp, we've got good reinforcements.
But we need class up front.
Im telling you, I disagree with Rafa that we can win the league on the cheap. Rafa is only a human being, he is not GOD! I just dont like all this "believe in Rafa" nonsense, like he is a religion or something. people need to be realistic.
This seasons target was supposed to be a a lot closer to the 30 odd points last season, but because we cant score, it's cost us big time.

Im counting 16 years with no title, how many more.

RFB,

No Doubt Chelsea will be there for awhile to foil our title aspirations. But If we keep improving each year then, we moving in the right direction. IF chelsea stumble, hopefully we will be there to capitalise.

I am a little confused with the rest of your post. As AB pointed out, money or big buys don't nesscessarily translate to success, but Chelsea don't just have money, they have unlimited money.

How do you know Rafa 'wants to win the league on the cheap' ? I have not heard him say that (if he did, i stand corrected). Are you saying Rafa wants to win league on the cheap because he has not made any big purchases?

I am not an expert, but really who should we have bought? That kid wallcott? (no way for that kind of cash), Owen? (not for the money that NUFC paid). How do you know that Rafa's doesn't want to spend 14+ million on a proven striker? Surely we can only buy whats available.

I beleive Rafa is not trying to do things on the cheap, he just seems to spend wisely. I am sure that if a decent striker were to become available, he would spend the money. I hope you are not suggesting that we enter into a bidding war with chelsea, to secure a big signing.

As for In 'Rafa we trust' - I ask you, why not? when we are improving each season, why not? No its not a religion, LFC is a religion, he's just the Head Priest, who can make mistakes.

by **Alanay** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:54 am

At least we are better of from last season at this point in time. We are fighting for the 2nd spot, and not struggling to get into the last spot of the CL. But we do really need a top class killer up front.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:58 am

keep the faith

Agreed. Look at the facts.

- Defeated by a late goal totally against the run of play at Old Trafford after dominating the match.

- Drew with Birmingham after one moment of bad luck after dominating the game.

- Lost to the runaway Premiership leaders after fighting them unlike other teams who are simply content to allow Chelsea to roll over them, and we lost a superb goalkeeper to a terrible act of faking an injury to get another player to get sent off, despite the fact that said player was in Reyna's face at the time.

The only thing these matches prove is that LFC would sweep all the other sides away if we had two strong strikers. The rest of the unit is working generally fine. Our problem is that we can't finish off sides after dominating them for most of the game.

We lost to statistically the best two teams in the country, and got an unlucky draw.

Next games are important. We need two wins. But we are still in a good position and this summer, we'll complete the plan and get those strikers and anyone else we need.

by **Robbie Fowler is Back** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:25 pm

babu wrote:How do you know Rafa 'wants to win the league on the cheap' ? I have not heard him say that (if he did, i stand corrected). Are you saying Rafa wants to win league on the cheap because he has not made any big purchases?

Rafa has said many times over the last 4 months in the press that he didn't think we needed to spend mega money , to compete and to do well. Thats all I disagree with.

I do think we are improving, but as regards Valencia, he did inherit a better team. Over the past few years havent Real Madrid paid 50m for Zidane, 25m for Beckham, 30 or 40m for Figo from Barca, now Robinhio etc, all mega money deals.

But they have won the european cup at least twice in that time. and la liga, up until /3 season ago.

History doesnt always repeat itself, and all im saying is, we should go for two mega money signings, mainly up front.

dirk kuyt, Owen, or maybe a cheeky bid for Henry.

by **stmichael** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:27 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:The only thing these matches prove is that LFC would sweep all the other sides away if we had two strong strikers. The rest of the unit is working generally fine. Our problem is that we can't finish off sides after dominating them for most of the game.

I don't think anybody would argue with that. Nearly everytime we play we have more shots than the opposition but our shots on target ratio is shocking to say the least. On Sunday we had 12 shots and only two were on target.

Personally, I think Defoe will be a Liverpool player next season.

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:57 pm

I've been giving the Defoe thing a bit of thought and am beginning to slightly change my mind ST Mick. I have said all along he would be a good signing but having seen us against Chelsea, I'm not sure he is what we need. The difference between the likes of Crespo, Van Nistelroy and any of our front men is absolutely startling and I'm not sure Defoe can bridge the gap.
Stating the obvious here but we need an undiscovered Henri or Shevchenko, but then again who doesn't? Those players, or that player more likely, is out there somewhere and I'll bet that Rafa and his team are trawling through the leagues around the World looking for that man, along with all every other coach on the planet.
Two things here. I'd back our man against most to find that player. I'm much more confident than I was under Houllier that if Rafa goes in at 10 mill' plus he will unearth a proper footballer, not a Heskey/Diouf/Cisse. 35 million for those three is business any club you could do without. The second thing is that if we are going to persist with Crouch (and I think we should) then the answer to our conundrum may be really close to home. Robbie will do really well for I think as an impact bench player, but the permanent solution maybe just up North a bit at the barcodes. My notion is that he is the one to play with Crouch, not Defoe.

by **woof woof !** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:23 pm

bigmick wrote:the permanent solution maybe just up North a bit at the barcodes. My notion is that he is the one to play with Crouch, not Defoe.

I take your point Mick , but bear in mind ,that player has a habit of spending a great deal of time in the treatment room for one reason or another . Not that I wouldn't welcome him back .

I don't know if Defoe is in the frame as far as Rafa's thinking but I'd be happy to see us make a serious move for him . He appears to be a bit of a miserable sod, similar to Andy Cole but like Cole in his prime there's no denying the lads ability or just as importantly ,his hunger .

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