Joey barton for rm?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby flipmode » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:43 am

Scottbot wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Barton doesn't lack technical ability, Scott, you're normally one of the more intelligent posters on here and don't talk rubbish, next time he plays and you get the chance, watch the lad. Just watch his touches and passes, you'll be suprised.

I rate the lad Stu (as i've already said) but for me, he has a way to go before he is the equal of Gerrard in just about every department (including technical ability.)

Dont think he will ever be as good, but one day he will be a good player, Kevin Nolan better though and he played him off the park when Bolton played Man City

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Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:11 pm

LFCNUTTER wrote:Does Stu the red just say these things to be controversial I cant believe anyone can be that thick
Joey Barton better than Gerrard your having a f-cking laugh lad

Where did i ever say Joey Barton was better than Steven Gerrard as a footballer?

Where did i ever say Barton's overall level of ability was world class, top class or even class?

Please point this out.

Yet another complete moron from LFC.tv who comes on here, starts abusing people they don't know, reading probably 5 posts i've wrote out of 4300, makes a judgement then attempts to discredit me by talking about me as a third person.

Provide a good arguement and people MIGHT listen to you, then again, they probably won't.
Last edited by 115-1073096938 on Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dawson99 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:14 pm

yeah,w eve known stu long enough to take the pi$$ outta him, u havent :p

barton is a class but stevie is different class.
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:17 pm

LFCNUTTER wrote:Raffa will learn f-ck all from your posts

And he'll learn alot from posts like this?

:D

Classic.

I come on here and talk football, i know the game very well, i've played at a decent level, i've coached some very good young players, i've done my Uefa B coaching badge, i've spoken to and learnt from some excellent coaches.

I've also attended more games than probably most of the people on here put together will attend in a life time.

You can sit there and disagree all you want, yet posts like that prove that there is no foundation to your "opinions" and you seriously lack football knowledge, intelligence and just plain basic social skills.

People like you ruin football forums and don't contribute anything. Please do everyone a favour and go back to LFC.tv.
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Postby woof woof ! » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:19 pm

dawson99 wrote:barton is a class but stevie is different class.

Barton is a thug   :kungfu:
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Postby dawson99 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:23 pm

u say tomatoe i say tomatoe (works better when said)

barton has grown up. most players in the 80s were thugs, and some still are. ruddock was a total thug but he was quality.

i say live and let live. the guy has learnt from his mistakes.
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:32 pm

Scottbot wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Barton doesn't lack technical ability, Scott, you're normally one of the more intelligent posters on here and don't talk rubbish, next time he plays and you get the chance, watch the lad. Just watch his touches and passes, you'll be suprised.

I rate the lad Stu (as i've already said) but for me, he has a way to go before he is the equal of Gerrard in just about every department (including technical ability.)

Scott, you don't learn to be technically good at 23. Once you get past about 6 or 7 your abilities and style of play has usually started to develop.

As i said Scott, watch Barton, everytime he does something think what Gerrard would do. I've seen Barton play passes that were well executed that Gerrard would never play and vice versa.

The thing is, people on the forum could never see this, as most of these arguements on here say, its rubbish because its rubbish. How on earth could Barton possibley be better than Gerrard at anything? There are loads of players tactically and technically better Gerrard in the premiership and i think its extremely naive that just because he's a world class player people think he's the best in every area.

Look at Veron, failiure over here, yet technically wipes the floor with Gerrard. Then theres Ronaldinho and Zidane, two of the best players in the world. Even the likes of Pires, Gerrard doesn't have that level of technical ability. Then theres Danny Murphy, a decent player who's weight of passing and ability to open a defence up with a through ball or clever pass is again greater than Gerrard's.

People don't seem to understand that Gerrard is as good as he is because he's hardly got a weakness. Not because he's great at everything. He isn't. He's outstanding physically, he's very very good technically and tactically he's very good. However to suggest he's the best out there tactically and techincally is simpley madness.

Players tactically in the league that are better:

Lampard, Hamann, Alonso, Makelele, Essien, Gilberto Silva

technically:

Henry, Fowler, Alonso, Kewell, Pires, Scholes, Rooney, Reyes, Emre

They are just a couple of names off the top of my head.
Overall Gerrard offers alot of everything but when does he ever play a pass that you think, where did that come from? Or when does he do a bit of skill like Ronaldinho... or even Joe Cole for that matter? What about seeing simply stop everything that gets to our defence without having to cover every blade of grass? The answers are simple, it doesn't happen.

Gerrard does the simple things well consistently, he covers ALOT of ground, wins alot of tackles, defends, attacks, always shows for the ball and drives the team forward.
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:34 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
dawson99 wrote:barton is a class but stevie is different class.

Barton is a thug   :kungfu:

Agreed.
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:44 pm

LFCNUTTER wrote:Look at me everyone i'm an inbread c0ckmaster.

I know thats what i was sayin lad... :D
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Postby LFCNUTTER » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:40 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
LFCNUTTER wrote:Does Stu the red just say these things to be controversial I cant believe anyone can be that thick
Joey Barton better than Gerrard your having a f-cking laugh lad

Where did i ever say Joey Barton was better than Steven Gerrard as a footballer?

Where did i ever say Barton's overall level of ability was world class, top class or even class?

Please point this out.

Yet another complete moron from LFC.tv who comes on here, starts abusing people they don't know, reading probably 5 posts i've wrote out of 4300, makes a judgement then attempts to discredit me by talking about me as a third person.

Provide a good arguement and people MIGHT listen to you, then again, they probably won't.

The fact that you answer every single post that doesnt agree with your massive amount of football knowledge tells me that you do post to be contraversial so I will attempt to post my views. Joey Barton is not in the same league as steve gerrard in no department whatsoever I did not say anywhere in my post that you said barton was world class or top class so i dont know where you got that from.If you look at the date I joined the forum you will see I didnt jump on the bandwagon from lfctv never been on it in fact.I am not attempting to discredit you ,you are doing a great job of that yourself.Are all 4300 of your posts full of :censored: like the ones I have read.I have probably forgot more than you know about football you keep harping on about playing football at a decent level do you think your the only one who has by the way I see your still young who do you play for now and what league is it.Or are you just telling porkies
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:00 pm

LFCNUTTER wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
LFCNUTTER wrote:Does Stu the red just say these things to be controversial I cant believe anyone can be that thick
Joey Barton better than Gerrard your having a f-cking laugh lad

Where did i ever say Joey Barton was better than Steven Gerrard as a footballer?

Where did i ever say Barton's overall level of ability was world class, top class or even class?

Please point this out.

Yet another complete moron from LFC.tv who comes on here, starts abusing people they don't know, reading probably 5 posts i've wrote out of 4300, makes a judgement then attempts to discredit me by talking about me as a third person.

Provide a good arguement and people MIGHT listen to you, then again, they probably won't.

The fact that you answer every single post that doesnt agree with your massive amount of football knowledge tells me that you do post to be contraversial so I will attempt to post my views. Joey Barton is not in the same league as steve gerrard in no department whatsoever I did not say anywhere in my post that you said barton was world class or top class so i dont know where you got that from.If you look at the date I joined the forum you will see I didnt jump on the bandwagon from lfctv never been on it in fact.I am not attempting to discredit you ,you are doing a great job of that yourself.Are all 4300 of your posts full of :censored: like the ones I have read.I have probably forgot more than you know about football you keep harping on about playing football at a decent level do you think your the only one who has by the way I see your still young who do you play for now and what league is it.Or are you just telling porkies

:laugh:

You my friend... are a fuckwit. Have a nice day... :D
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Postby Scottbot » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:04 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Scott, you don't learn to be technically good at 23. Once you get past about 6 or 7 your abilities and style of play has usually started to develop.

Stu - Define Technical ability. It's a very general term (a favourite of the pundits) that gets bandied about a lot and i get the impression everyone has a different opinion on what it means.
When someone says technical ability i think touch, control, turning, addressing the ball, comfort on the ball and passing.
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Postby mighty mo » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:05 pm

stu_the_red wrote:In terms of tactical ability i mean positioning. I mean his ability to play the right pass, his ability to be in the correct place and read the game. Joey Barton in terms of positioning and picking the right pass is very very good and better than Steven Gerrard. Barton passes alot of square balls where as Steven likes alot of long balls, Barton keeps possession of the football much better, its also worth noting he's playing in a worse side with players who aren't able to find space as well as many of the Liverpool players. Steven is better at timing runs into the box, however Barton is also good at this.

You then compare aggression, well, Stevie's aggressive, so is Joey, very very similar. I'd probably pick Gerrard on the fact he's stronger in the tackle... Oh weight, thats a physical attribute isn't it?

As for work rate and bottle, again, both are pretty similar and both have similar leadership qualities.

Technically Barton is as good as passer of the ball especially on short passes as what Gerrard is. If people actually watched the lad, they'll see he possesses a good range of passing ability. His level of skill and touch is very similar to that of Gerrard, so much so i can't decide who is better. Gerrard is the better dribbler and probably shades it slightly in the ariel department. In terms of shooting, well we all know how good Gerrard's shooting ability is, but Barton again, can hit a superb strike, some of the goals he's score this season.

I remember a few years ago when he first came onto the scene, playing Gerrard and Hamann off the park for City t anfield, had a great game, it wasn't form that got him through, it was ability.

You compare every aspect of Barton's game and he's very similar, even in running style to Gerrard. Even in terms of Vision they are again very similar and both pick very good passes out.

Barton is an excellent alround player who could play at a better club than City. Without question.

HOWEVER, he lacks Gerrard's pace, strength, agility, balance and stamina. Infact, Barton is decent in these area's but he's not top class. Gerrard however is. He's very very pacey, he's got immense stamina, very strong and is extremely mobile.

The main difference in the two is the physical presence which allows Gerrard to be EVERYWHERE on the pitch and the attitude off the pitch off both. It allows him to use his dribbling and skill to more of an effect, it allows him to cover more ground and make more tackles, it allows him to make a pass then move quickly to another position.

They are very very similar players, watch them both closely.

Gerrard is physically far greater and has a far better attitude. Thats the only real difference.

Yet, people will dismiss that as Barton only plays for City and can't possibly be anything like Steven Gerrard because he's one of the worlds best. Gerrard is world class. Barton's an excellent player. The reason he's not world class is he doesn't have the same physical attributes and doesn't have the right mentallity.

i hope you are joking again stu
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:13 pm

Scottbot wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Scott, you don't learn to be technically good at 23. Once you get past about 6 or 7 your abilities and style of play has usually started to develop.

Stu - Define Technical ability. It's a very general term (a favourite of the pundits) that gets bandied about a lot and i get the impression everyone has a different opinion on what it means.
When someone says technical ability i think touch, control, turning, addressing the ball, comfort on the ball and passing.

Positioning of the body when recieving the ball, ability to manipulate the ball, weight of shot/chip/pass, timing of strike (IE on a volley whens its dropping where to hit it and at what height).

Steve Finnan is technically (TECHNICAL ABILITY ONLY) better than Steven Gerrard. That doesn't mean he's a better footballer, it means the things i've said above are better.
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Postby Scottbot » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:13 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Players tactically in the league that are better:

Lampard, Hamann, Alonso, Makelele, Essien, Gilberto Silva

Not a great comparison Stu.  Five of the six players you have named are essentially holding/deep lying midfielders who have a set job to do and do it. With the exception of Lamnpard neither of these players is given the license to roam or the expectation to create as is the case with Gerrard. I think you are overly critical of Gerrard from a tactical perspective. If your job is to sit in front of the back 4 much like a 5th defender, provide protection, break up attacks and find a team-mate does it make you a great player tactically just because you get this job done? i mean you never hear anyone talk about a defender's tactical ability.
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