Liverpool FC Forum

by **72-1136150807** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:57 am

So we all know we are in serious need of a right sided midfielder, though some would say we need a winger, either way we all agree we need the right hand side sorted out.
Now I was pondering who we might buy, as you do, but then I got on to thinking about something I think is more important in relation to whoever we buy.

Since Steven Gerrard has been playing out on the right hand side, and we adopted a very simple 4-4-2 (in general) we have seen our results improve dramatically, with the additional bonus of the clean sheets we are accumulating. This has been wonderful, but what happens if/when we get in the new recruit?

Will we still play a 4-4-2 and move Gerrard back into the centre with Xabi, and therefore Sissoko on the bench? So the Midfield has a look like this:

Kewell Gerrard Alonso ?

Or is it possible Rafa may go back to the system of a 4-5-1 or 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3(however you prefer to call it), that he used so much last season and at much of the start of this, in the same sort of style that Chelsea often adopt with Robben/Duff, with us having the new RM and Harry Kewell doing the same roles, so it would look like this:

Crouch
Kewell Simao (for example)

Gerrard
Sissoko Alonso

BACK FOUR

GK

Now the first option of 4-4-2, could be good, as that’s how we have been playing of late and the team seem quite fluid in this formation, but this could be partly due to the way the Stevie G comes off the flank and roams the pitch, making it harder for opposition players to know who should be marking who, and while they figure it out, we go and score a goal. I would expect the new player to be more of an out and out right sided player and to tend to stay there, making him easier to mark, and the formation becomes a lot more rigid.
With this formation, I don’t see Sissoko starting many games, more brought on to add muscle in the last 20mins or so. But could the exclusion of Sissoko actually be a BAD thing?
Is it possible, that we lose a bit of muscle in the centre of the park, especially with Gerrard getting forward to do damage. With more defensive duties it may take slightly from his attacking game? And at the same time, there would be an increase in defensive duties for Xabi, and this will affect his 'own game' ie; passing etc;

Whereas in the 4-5-1 or 4-3-2-1 (how ever you like!) with Sissoko in the middle, I feel it allows Stevie to get forward a lot more and do damage where he is best, joining the attacks from deep or driving at defences with the ball in tow. I also feel that what we don’t get from Sissoko in the passing department, we WILL get from Alonso, as Momo’s presence, will also allow Xabi to focus on setting the tempo and dictating our play more, as Sissoko, deals with the donkey work.

I’d like to hear peoples views on the following, both what formation they think RAFA will play, but also what formation they think themselves would be best suited when a new right sided player comes in?

And also, Could a right sided player coming in during this current transfer window actually have a detrimental affect on the team? Should we consider leaving it to the summer?

by **A.B.** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:04 am

Since Steven Gerrard has been playing out on the right hand side, and we adopted a very simple 4-4-2 (in general) we have seen our results improve dramatically, with the additional bonus of the clean sheets we are accumulating. This has been wonderful, but what happens if/when we get in the new recruit?

What happens is that you play Gerrard in the central-midfield, the position he's most influential and effective. That would mean giving Sissoko some time to on the bench, because he needs to cool off otherwise he will get him self sent off again soon.

Or is it possible Rafa may go back to the system of a 4-5-1 or 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3(however you prefer to call it), that he used so much last season and at much of the start of this, in the same sort of style that Chelsea often adopt with Robben/Duff, with us having the new RM and Harry Kewell doing the same roles, so it would look like this:

I think Benitez might be tempted to stick with 4-4-2 because it has suited us well recently.

With this formation, I don’t see Sissoko starting many games, more brought on to add muscle in the last 20mins or so. But could the exclusion of Sissoko actually be a BAD thing?
Is it possible, that we lose a bit of muscle in the centre of the park, especially with Gerrard getting forward to do damage. With more defensive duties it may take slightly from his attacking game? And at the same time, there would be an increase in defensive duties for Xabi, and this will affect his 'own game' ie; passing etc;

If we're going to stick with Gerrard on the flank, then play Hamann alongside Alonso. Hamann has still gas in the tank, he's experienced and he breaks up the opposition's attacks well. Sissoko has a good engine, but still has much to learn. Hamann is not a great passer of the ball, but he's definetly better than Sissoko.

And also, Could a right sided player coming in during this current transfer window actually have a detrimental affect on the team? Should we consider leaving it to the summer?

Benitez has actually talked about how he may not buy a winger this month if we don't find the right one, he would keep Gerrard on the right until the summer.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:08 am

It is well documented that Rafa's prefered style of play is the 4-5-1 system, changing to almost a 2-4-4 when attacking.

I believe that Rafa will continue to pick a side he feels is most capable against a given club.

If he does go from 4-4-2, then I would expect us to play the following system, with Stevie G able to roam:

Reina

Finnan/Kromkamp JC Sami/New Riise/Warnock

Sissoko
Alonso

New Kewell
Gerrard

Crouch.

It's all academic, though, as Benitez picks the side, and knows a lot more about football and LFC's squad than anyone on here!

by **Garymac** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:45 am

Theres no way he would consider that his formation now with 1 upfront, those days are over, as i hope are Gerrards days on the right.

He has done well but look at the difference when he is in the center, theres no one better, he moved inside when pongolle came on and he and Alonso then dictated the game.

What does consern me is that we have had a bid of 5.5 turned down for Agger and 8 turned down for Alaves, two i players i have to admit i know very little about, if we cant get are hands on these to for a total of 13M+, who the fu*k can we get, who the fu*k do these clubs think they are.

Gerrard can do a job for so long out there but we need a quality right winger, its the one thing lacking.

If anyone knows anything about this Alaves who plays for Seville (maybe Sabre)

Id appreciate the info because i know fu*k all about the fella

by **Sabre** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:11 pm

Good post Hoodfella.

I agree A.B. in what he says about Sissoko. His positioning and tacking must improve, it's not all about muscle.

Also, I don't see Rafa changing his formation around a new signing, I think the new signing must adapt to Rafa's plans instead. If Rafa hasn't built a team depending in Gerrard (he uses this valuable piece for different purposes in his plan) I don't think we'll change the system just because a new player arrives at the club

About

Haven't seen much "live" so I want say much, only in TV, but I'll say what the people comment .
He's more a right back than a right midfielder. He is Brazilian, but also has Spanish nationality. Some say Aragones should think on him for Germany.

He has excellent touch of the ball and good crossings, but as many Brazilians, defending is not his strong point. Actually, I don't see him in Liverpool after the dutch guy has come.

by **Garymac** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:17 pm

News is that Rafa has made the bid and its been turned down so he must be serious, although there is no way it wil be as a right back, he must be able to play right wing for rafa to be considering him.

by **Sabre** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:26 pm

He could play as a right wing undoubtely. With a solid RB like Finnan, we can afford Alves doesn't defend much.

As the time passes, I'm growing more and more curious about what are Rafa's plans towards Luis Garcia. I think he relies on him. Recently Rafa has made an interview in Spain.

The journalist, who is a tw*at, asked him how were the christmas like in a cheerful tone, and Rafa had to remind him that they were hard, as there was much work to do and recently lost his dad. (what a lack of touch of the journalist) :angry:

He also made a little comments about the Spaniards, and about LG he said what we all know, that he's excellent but sometimes he does things he shouldn't. But that he's learning and improving more and more.

It would be difficult to accept for LG not to play much, when Germany WC is there and he's struggling for a place. I also don't see Rafa not relying on him.

Where do you lot think that Rafa will use LG if a right winged man comes, and how much will he use it?

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:32 pm

Sabre wrote:Where do you lot think that Rafa will use LG if a right winged man comes, and how much will he use it?

Maybe just behind or off one striker.

by **stmichael** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:56 pm

I'm of the opinion, that Rafa's long term plan does not include playing two strikers on a regular basis, instead I think he'll operate with two wingers and Stevie being given freedom to roam behind a Crouch/Kuyt type front man.

E.g.....

---------Crouch
Gonzales-Gerrard-Simao
------Alonso-Sissoko

Although against weaker sides at Anfield, Rafa maybe be tempted to go all guns blazing and play....

------Crouch
--------(new striker)
Gonzales------------Simao
-------Gerrard-Alonso

I don't know, I still don't think Stevie is a natural link man. He roams alot I know, he creates a lot, but I just don't see it, not with the current strikers anyway. I think Crouch would be a good foil for someone, but useless on his own, as proved at the beginning of the season when we were struggling to score goals. The manure game at home was a prime example of this. Crouch was winning several balls in the air but he had no'one within 40 yards of him.

I know it works for Chelsea with Lampard, but they still often have someone like Gudjohnsen in there when they can to link the play.

I think Stevie's at his best when given complete freedom to roam.

Playing on the right, left and even in the center just with Alonso restricts him slightly. Playing just in front of the Alonso - Sissoko shield gets the best out of him, in my opinion.

Besides, the 4-2-3-1 formation is Rafa's favourite. Once we get a right sided player we have all the components to play this system perfectly. Probably the best example was Arsenal last season when Mellor played up front with Kewell and FSP in the wide areas and Gerrard supporting from deep. What resulted was probably our best Premiership performance of the season.

by **andy_g** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:04 pm

the luis garcia issue one we can't really ignore if we're are going to get a proper, permanent right sided player in. gerrard can't be left out there forever, cisse should not even be considered, it looks like pongo is off for a while and so luis seems the only possibility in our current squad. but having said that he's not the best for the job either.

i see benitez carrying on with some form of 4-5-1 formation, and i don't see luis garcia having a 'first name on the team sheet' type role in that either. but then he's too good not to have playing for us on a regular basis. but then again he's not good enough to consider building the attacking part of our team around.

what do we do with him? myself, i see his role in the team as becoming more and more of a supersub type character apart from the odd bit of squad rotation. i just hope he can be happy in that role and will carry on doing the business.

by **72-1136150807** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:21 pm

Sabre wrote:Good post Hoodfella.

I agree A.B. in what he says about Sissoko. His positioning and tacking must improve, it's not all about muscle.

Also, I don't see Rafa changing his formation around a new signing, I think the new signing must adapt to Rafa's plans instead. If Rafa hasn't built a team depending in Gerrard (he uses this valuable piece for different purposes in his plan) I don't think we'll change the system just because a new player arrives at the club.

Dont get me wrong, of course Sissoko's positioning and tackling(we may aswell say pasing too!) need improvement. But I feel ihs energy and commitment make up for what he lacks at present, and with him in the team it allows Xabi and Gerrard to get on with what they are best at.

As for Rafa NOT changing his formation to suit a player and the fact that the player must adapt to our style, I hear what you are saying, but I made that point becuase Rafa's favoured formation is the 4-5-1 and its variants.
The main reason we are playing 4-4-2 at the moment is because it became clear as day to Rafa, that we didnt have the personnel to get the best out of his favoured formation.
But thats my point, I can see him reverting back to this when he has the right sided midfielder in the team.

And I am just worried that if this does happen that our performances may drop for a while as we get to grips with a new formation along with new personnel in the team too.

But if we stay 4-4-2, as you think we may, I really believe we will NOT see the best out of either Xabi or Gerrard especially, due to the increase in defensive duties.
But if we play three through the middle, then Stevie will have license to roam, and thats when he is most dangerous, and of course thats what we want from Gerrard, the best out of him, I just wonder if this is possible in a 4-4-2 with him in the centre, because he will have less chance to roam, as he will have to sort out the oppo's centre midfielder throughout the game.

I think StMichael is thinking along the same lines as me, from what I read in his post.

As for little Mr. Garcia. I have been saying for a while, that over time, he will become more and more of a bit part player, especially in the league. Though I do still expect to see him regularly whilst we play in Europe.

by **Sabre** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:25 pm

I see your point, you might be perfectly right. Now let's see what happens

About what you and Andy G say about Luis Garcia, I think you are right. Perhaps I'm not a "big team" minded supporter and I'm just worried when a good player has no place in a team

But depth in the squad is what we needed, didn't we? so I guess having supersubs is a good thing, as that happens in big teams.

by **tubby** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:29 pm

Squad rotaion. Im sure Benitez would ideally like to have a team that can bring in consistent results no matter which players play. I have no doubts that Garcia will still play an important part of the team whoever comes into the team in the RM position. Dont forget hes already scored more goals in all comps than last season.

by **72-1136150807** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:29 pm

see your point, you might be perfectly right. Now let's see what happens

About what you and Andy G say about Luis Garcia, I think you are right. Perhaps I'm not a "big team" minded supporter and I'm just worried when a good player has no place in a team

But depth in the squad is what we needed, didn't we? so I guess having supersubs is a good thing, as that happens in big teams.

Thats the price of a great team and success, you tend to have more good players than you can accomadate, but considering the poor SQUADS as a whole we have had for the past 5 years or so, it is now a nice problem to have.

by **72-1136150807** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:33 pm

bavlondon wrote:Squad rotaion. Im sure Benitez would ideally like to have a team that can bring in consistent results no matter which players play. I have no doubts that Garcia will still play an important part of the team whoever comes into the team in the RM position. Dont forget hes already scored more goals in all comps than last season.

Yes, thats what we would all lke, that we have such a strong squad that we can rotate and not be too well affetced by it, but we have seen our results improve dramitically by actually cutting down on the amount of rotation that happens.
We still rotate, but not so many players at once. Also, it does still seem to affect us at times, eg; Traore a couple weeks back. He hadnt played ina while, so was rusty. (but I am sure Stu will say, he wasnt rusty, just Sh*t!! :laugh:

).

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