Liverpool FC Forum

by **redmist** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:40 pm

After listening to both sides of the terracing arguement today, i still was unable to make my own mind up on the issue which understandably is something close to any LFC fans heart. Unfortunately i wasn't about to witness first hand what the Kop was like in our pomp, in the words of an old friend and fellow red " magic, just magical ", said with a tear.
Can it ever be controlled with real order - ie family enclosures. Or could the authorities keep segregation in order.
I think that todays game is now on a different level now to back in the day of real hooliganism so maybe it could happen.
All i can say so far is that at the start of a match in the middle of the Kop, singing, standing, sitting- whatever, the feeling is magic, just magical.

REDMIST

[quote]"Jesus, my own brother, a god damn bloodsucking vampire. You wait till mom finds out" Corey Haim

by **Sabre** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:05 pm

Hi redmist, interesting topic imho.

When I read the Hillsborough tragedy details you have in another section, apart from the truth, I could read a very detailed explanation of what were the security measures that lacked those stadiums of the past. I realised there for instance, why now in my new stadium I have to go upstairs quite much in order to get into the stadium. Indeed, it's not that easy to press the ones you have on fronf of you, thus avoiding avalanches.

Being sitdown rather than the terraces is another security method. I certainly agree that terraces had the following advantages

* More and better atmosphere
* Better in winter (human heat)
* Economic prizes, appropiate to young fans -> new fans to the club.

And the following disadvantages

* You had to go 1 hour before the match to pick a good place
* Avalanches
* Less security.

The question would be, are terraces possible with a reasonable security? IMHO, yes. Crowd segregation is still possible through police or as some Spanish stadiums have "cages" (except on front) separated from the main stand where opposition fans are placed. And security about avalanches is just about access control, not being stand up or sit down, otherwise, no U2 concerts would be allowed.

I'd love to hear your opinions.

by **RUSHIE#9** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:31 am

I really think that this argument for bringing back terracing needs to be dropped (this isn't a criticism of this thread) we all saw and know what happened at hillsborough and playing with human lives just to have a better atmosphere is a game with too big a penalty. I like many reds from around liverpool knew in one way or another somebody that was directly affected by the tradgedy and being able to remember the outpouring of grief during those dark days is definately not something that anyone in Liverpool wants to relive.

Having stood on the kop myself it was a magical feeling knowing you were a part of something that had so much history and a certain aura about it but believe me it did have it's down sides - as sabre said having to be there 1-2 hours before kick-off to get your spot, the constant stench of piss and wondering whether someone was going to give you a splash of eau du piss down yer legs. To bring back standing just wouldn't necessarily mean the legend of the kop being reborn and it may not just be down to the seating that has killed the atmosphere at football, it may have something to do with the cost of tickets being so high compared to years ago and the working class fans that were more likely to attend the matches years ago can't afford to go nowadays and the people that can go are less inclined to sing their hearts out.

Bringing any kind of fencing in to control the fans sabre no matter whether in front or to the side of the fans still brings the danger of fans being crushed into the equation so this would and should be ruled out rite away. As for the lack of heat in winter i think a couple of thick jumpers would do the trick and jump up and down on the spot at half time when the person next to you goes for a pie and a slash.

by **Sabre** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:39 am

Good reasons, to be honest, quite convincing.

Still I'm not so sure if the fact of being stand up or sit down is the most relevant one in terms of security. About the cages, you're right, I don't like them neither. About the cold, well, living in Spain helps, though San Sebastian is rainy as England

.

Thank you for your post!

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:55 am

In fairness, having seats in a stadium doesn't stop trouble.
I think there should be a terrace AND seating. Say, for instance, the Kop could be a terrace, and the rest of Anfield seated. It's not ideal, but at least that means the dirty opposition fans are nowhere near the standing fans.

by **azriahmad** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:53 am

I have been to the terreces, 2 times at Carrow Road and on both occassions to watch Norwich-Liverpool games. I went to Carrow Road because I studied then in Norwich.

Now that I am older, I would not like to go to watch at terraces unless I have no choice. But then, since the inception of the EPL and the football marketing boom, ticket prices have gone up into the atmosphere!

As I am no longer living in the UK, I am out of touch about the fans and football ticket prices but I'd read everywhere that there a less and less young fans, 16 and below or so, because they can't afford the ticked proces anymore.

Football clubs should have terraces and re-introduce cheap tickets, or risk losing fans when the present generation of fans get older and "retire" from watching live matches at stadias. If they don't do this, it clearly shows that sadly, they are ripping off the fans all the time and only think about the "big business" and how to milk money to pay for the players, directors etc.

by **Adebisi** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:26 am

I never knew the Shalke stadium had 16,000 standing, these standing areas seem to be quite small at the corners and must be limited to a small amount.
Is a very touchy subject but I'd like to see terracing back, creates a better atmosphere, you can stand with whoever you like, you arent stuck in the same seats all season next to the same moaners and could increase the capacity and income hugely.
Dortmund average 75,000 fans, we could easily get this I believe if there was a terraced section.
But can't see this happening for us for obvious reasons, but perhaps in the future if it was done safely and correct.

by **simic_ie** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:38 am

To be honest, and with all do respect to those at Hillsborough, terracing is a safe way to watch a match if the terrace is managed properly. Hillsborough didn't happen because it was a terrace, it happened because far to many people were allowed into the terrace. If the same amount of overcrowding was allowed into a seated area the result would be just as bad if not worse.

Another contributing factor to Hillsborough was the fact that the terrace was set up like pens, where people were caged in and there was nowhere for people to get out to allieviate the crush. I've been to terraces to watch matches many times, and while there is obvious crowd sway, I've never felt in danger.

by **red37** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:16 pm

Adebisi wrote:Is a very touchy subject but I'd like to see terracing back, creates a better atmosphere, you can stand with whoever you like, you arent stuck in the same seats all season next to the same moaners and could increase the capacity and income hugely.

SO TRUE!

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:19 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:In fairness, having seats in a stadium doesn't stop trouble.
I think there should be a terrace AND seating. Say, for instance, the Kop could be a terrace, and the rest of Anfield seated. It's not ideal, but at least that means the dirty opposition fans are nowhere near the standing fans.

I agree that Terracing has ints benefits in the way of atmosphere. Although having seating in a stadium does not stop trouble it can help prevent the level of trouble. When there are no seats and just terracing crowd control becoming so much harder. Surging and charging becomes a problem along with safety issues

by **BOODIDDY** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:10 pm

remember when i was at the uefa final in 2001 the westfallon stadium was brilliant. Remember they had seats that folded up completly so you could stand up. Therefore you are still allocated a position in the ground and the atmosphere was terrific. No crowd problems with this idea.

Im all for that kind of arrangement. I know it wont happen though.

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:26 pm

BOODIDDY wrote:remember when i was at the uefa final in 2001 the westfallon stadium was brilliant. Remember they had seats that folded up completly so you could stand up. Therefore you are still allocated a position in the ground and the atmosphere was terrific. No crowd problems with this idea.

Im all for that kind of arrangement. I know it wont happen though.

No i dont remember sorry

Do you ?

by **Owzat** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:33 pm

See seating as a mark of respect for the dead and as their legacy

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Standing room - Terracing. yes/no

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