Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:46 pm

Recently, we've been superb. We're starting to look like a side that can get a job done and done convincingly. Defensively we're out of this world at the moment. I do believe Chelsea have a better defence in terms of individuals, however i believe we have as near as we'll get to having as good a unit.

For me this area now doesn't need to improve. Don't get me wrong, should the correct player become available, by all means go for him, but the new player must have all the qualities of whoever he replaces and more and must be a very very similar mould of player.

It is however going forward, we still lack what is needed.

At the start of the season, I stated and still believe, there isn't alot wrong with this team. Even when we had this "crisis" i still believed there wasn't alot wrong. What i saw against Manchester United at the start of the season was a defence that can keep a clean sheet against any team in the world.

What i also saw is an attack that will struggle to break the best teams down. Last night i saw the same thing. Crouch has settled well, played some good games and looks like he can helps us score goals, against the lesser sides goals will come in abundance from everywhere i believe, we're looking like scoring alot now. But against the better teams, we're still going to struggle.

Last night i got the impression the only chance of a goal was from Riise or Gerrard. Sinama looked lively when he came on, had a headed chance, but by all means isn't a goalscorer. Riise and Gerrard seem the only two that are capable of scoring against Chelsea. Now, i'm not saying we'll never beat them, but what i am saying is at present i think we lack the ability to rip them apart upfront as they did to us. For me, thats the only real difference.

We don't really have anyone who can do it on there own or come up with that bit of magic to unlock a tight game. IE go past a player and lay it on a plate for someone or rattle one in the top corner on there own.

This is where again, i think Joaquin would come in. Someone who only needs to have one run, who can get past a defence and create something or score a goal. Someone who can carry the ball, spot a pass and play at pace. We lack pace, we lack someone who can take defenders on.

I genuinely believe that we have a good side.

I see Sinama-Pongolle as a similar player in a similar position to Luis Garcia. Last night i'd have liked to seen him come on earlier as i felt he offered more in that game. He plays off the front man.

I think our best team at the moment could be:

Crouch Sinama
Kewell Alonso Sissoko Gerrard
Riise Hyypia Carragher Finnan
Reina

I'd like to see it given a go against Boro. I think with Joaquin in for Sissoko and Gerrard back into the middle that team would be one player away from being as good as anyone. Crouch would benefit from having a winger like Joaquin in there aswell, Sinama links well with others around him, as does Gerrard and Crouch.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:02 pm

I understand what your saying but don't you think putting Reina up front as a lone striker is a little to controversial. At least give him a partner!

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:03 pm

Unlike some people i put the right side on the right and the left side on the left...

by **JBG** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:06 pm

Good post Stu, I agree with pretty much all of that, although I still think its a little early for Pongolle.

As much as I rate Joaquin I simply don't see his transfer happening.

My own feeling is that Simao will come in and improve us, but not spectacularly. He will give us additional options and overall raise our quality, but not dramatically. I think Mark Gonzalez is a complete mystery and without being too cynical, I think people who claim he is "quality" are bluffing as I doubt very much many posters here follow Albacte closely. Gonzalez could be mana from heaven, a diamond in the rough, or he could be one of the legions of foreign players who come to England who make no impact and disappear without a trace.

It can be taken for granted that a new defender will come in, either in January or the summer. I also think we'll see another orthodox midfielder coming, as Rafa likes central midfielders in the same way George Graham liked centre halves.

I think to really bridge the gap, we need an unorthodox player capable of turning a game with a stroke of brilliance, like Henry at Arsenal, Contona at Man UTD or Zola at Chelsea. Obviously, this is easier said than done: every football team in the world look for such a player. We obviously have the advantage over 95% of sides in the world as we have money and are a big club, its a matter of the right player being identified and a lot of luck.

We are used to having idols on the Kop but really, in the current side, there is no Daglish, Keegan, Liddle, Barnes, Beardsley or Fowler. We haven't had such a player for almost a decade. Gerrard and Owen were heroes, but they are not the type of player I am talking about.

At Valencia Benitez brought in Pablo Aimar, and he was the joker in the pack for them. At present, he has Luis Garcia, but for all of Luis' talents, he really is the Aldi version of the player we want: we need a Harrods player.

I think Rafa is putting the pieces in place, and by next summer, I think there will be a formidable squad there that can really give the Premiership a run for its money, if not quite win it. I think that as Rafa becomes more comfortable with his surroundings and has filled the most problematic of positions, his search for a talismatic attacker will begin. My own feeling is that he will eventually pluck one from the South American leagues.

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:09 pm

JBG wrote:Good post Stu, I agree with pretty much all of that, although I still think its a little early for Pongolle.

As much as I rate Joaquin I simply don't see his transfer happening.

My own feeling is that Simao will come in and improve us, but not spectacularly. He will give us additional options and overall raise our quality, but not dramatically. I think Mark Gonzalez is a complete mystery and without being too cynical, I think people who claim he is "quality" are bluffing as I doubt very much many posters here follow Albacte closely. Gonzalez could be mana from heaven, a diamond in the rough, or he could be one of the legions of foreign players who come to England who make no impact and disappear without a trace.

It can be taken for granted that a new defender will come in, either in January or the summer. I also think we'll see another orthodox midfielder coming, as Rafa likes central midfielders in the same way George Graham liked centre halves.

I think to really bridge the gap, we need an unorthodox player capable of turning a game with a stroke of brilliance, like Henry at Arsenal, Contona at Man UTD or Zola at Chelsea. Obviously, this is easier said than done: every football team in the world look for such a player. We obviously have the advantage over 95% of sides in the world as we have money and are a big club, its a matter of the right player being identified and a lot of luck.

We are used to having idols on the Kop but really, in the current side, there is no Daglish, Keegan, Liddle, Barnes, Beardsley or Fowler. We haven't had such a player for almost a decade. Gerrard and Owen were heroes, but they are not the type of player I am talking about.

At Valencia Benitez brought in Pablo Aimar, and he was the joker in the pack for them. At present, he has Luis Garcia, but for all of Luis' talents, he really is the Aldi version of the player we want: we need a Harrods player.

I think Rafa is putting the pieces in place, and by next summer, I think there will be a formidable squad there that can really give the Premiership a run for its money, if not quite win it. I think that as Rafa becomes more comfortable with his surroundings and has filled the most problematic of positions, his search for a talismatic attacker will begin. My own feeling is that he will eventually pluck one from the South American leagues.

Simao is a good player. He's not brilliant though from what I've seen. I've seen enough to know i'd rather see Pennant.

Also, Gonzalez, It woudln't suprise me if he's another Nunez. Totally agree with what you say about people bluffing about him being "class".

by **Gareth G** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:17 pm

I think there may be a few problem's playing Crouch and Pongolle in net's though!

Seriously though, I agree with you Stu. I never believed we were in a crisis as people were saying, we were defensively very solid but just lacked a little luck up front. But over all, our first handful of league game's didn't reflect the true reading of those game's in most cases.

As for our striker's, it's a bit of an odd one in my opinion. I personally believe we have really good quality up front, however, it's all individually. Crouch in my opinion is our main man, we are a serious threat when he's on the pitch, but we need another pacey striker to play along side him to take full advantage of his flick on's and his ability to win 99% of thing's in the air. Morientes is getting a touch better with ever game too, some of the flick's and general skill he has shown is second to none. Cisse is the weakest link up front with his pure lack of a footballing brain, but he still look's the more likely of our lad's to score when he's on and his pace kill's everyone. I'd love him to be schooled a bit more and try to drum knowledge into him - I think if he work's hard in all aspect's of his game he could be quite the striker. I think Pongolle could do a good job for us too, he's got a lot about his game at such a young age. For his physique he hold's the ball up with the strength of a bigger stronger player, he's skillful and quick. He's also a hell of a lot more aware than Cisse is and has a better footballing brain.

by **Sabre** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:18 pm

I quite agree except Morientes for Pongo, or Perhaps Luis Garcia himself for Pongo. Then buy a right winger (decent, we don't need world class) put Gerrard in his natural place, buy a defender to be safe in case of injuries, and that's it, we'd give a tough game to any team of the world, might even win the CL again if lucky (which is necessary for every team)

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:52 pm

--------------------------Reina---------------------

Finnan Carragher Hyypia Riise

Simao Gerrard Alonso Kewell

Garcia

Crouch

With this formation and player set-up, with Crouch having his back to goal, there are goalscoring opportunities galore for 5-6 players in the line-up who are more than capable of scoring goals. As far as I know, Simao is capable of scoring more goals than joaquin in open-play and is believed to be a good set-piece player also. Now if only we can get Kewell back to his best......................... :;):

by **66-1120597113** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:07 pm

Good post Stu!

I guess what you mean is we really lack an out and out goal scorer!
I agree that Pongo should definately be given a chance and i dont think dropping Moro would be a bad thing!In fact it would maybe do him good to fight for a place! So far its been 2 out of 3 that started up front this season and Pongo thrown in to the group could be healthy for competition.
Raffa does seem to be holding back Pongo a bit and thats understandable as he is young! My biggest criticism of Pongo has been the fact he was too light and got muscled off the ball too easily.
But the lad does seem to have filled out a bit and definately deserves a few games back to back!
My biggest worry is that he may not find his feet immediately and people on here would be on his back and saying negative things about him!
With Cisses attitude and Moro's goal famine i would love to see Crouch and Pongo given 3or 4 starts together to see how things go!

by **ivor_the_injun** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:38 pm

In the absence of a 30 goals a season man, Rafa looks to be trying to find players up front that can bring in players like Garcia and Gerrard to get their lion's share of goals. Every manager would like a player that can do both, but a) there aren't many of them and b) we'd probably get outbid for them even if they became available.

It's so ironic for me that in a country which struggles constantly to find a player to do a job on the left, one of its top teams has players that can play there in abundance, but are still without at least an adequate solution on the right. Yes, Gerrard has filled in brilliantly, but he's clearly only a stopgap there. Surely megabucks are going to be spent there next month.

Anyway, I actually think Rafa goes OTT defensively at times. Last night was a good case in point - 0-0, and Chelsea obviously started pushing for a winner in the last 20 mins. So what do we do? Every player behind the ball except our lone striker.

If Crouch/Morientes (when he came on) had been joined on the halfway line with players like Garcia and Kewell - who lets face it are a liability in defence in terms of commitment in the tackle and also playing opponents onside - Chelsea wouldn't have been able to throw quite so many people up front. Every hasty clearance was inevitably being chased by one man against three or four, and so the Chelsea attacks continued. We've traditionally been excellent on the break, but by having so few people prepared to pick up cleared balls, games will come when the constant pressure we put on ourselves by sitting so deep will mean mad ricochets in the box either going in, or falling kindly to an opponent. And too little time to do anything about it.

This is why we've been great lately for about 70-75% of games. The rest of it, I swear to god, we bring on ourselves by changing our tactics late on for the sake of protecting a slender lead. Premiership champions kill off games, but at the moment for me we give average teams hope by not having confidence in our attacking players to still be making teams back off even when we're two goals up.

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:42 pm

wrighty (not mark!) wrote:--------------------------Reina---------------------

Finnan Carragher Hyypia Riise

Simao Gerrard Alonso Kewell

Garcia

Crouch

I actually think Wrighty that you are bang on the money as to what our strongest team will be after January in Rafa's eyes. I expect that the only "straight into the first team" player that we will buy will be Simao. My only slight ammendment would be Warnock at left-back and Riise at left-mid. My suspicion is that Harry is not going to return to his former glories.
As for JBG's comments about a talismanic player I totally agree. The difficulty is that not only does he need to be a superbly talented footballer a la Aimar, he also needs to have resiliance and strength aswell. The likelyhood is that we will have to develop such a player as the Rooneys and the Ballacks of this World don't come cheap either in fees or salaries.
FWIW, my suspicion is that once we get Gerrard back playing in his best position and a couple of wide-midfielders (notice I deliberately don't call them wingers because we don't need wingers) who really contribute, then Luis Garcia may be a little more Waitrose than Aldi. Admittedly he's not the Harrods Ronaldhino version but he's a very good player who will score and create buckets of goals I think. Of all the topics I have contributed to on this board, the ones which occasionally spring up and criticize Garcia, labelling him useless are the ones with which I most profoundly disagree. Once more this season he is scoring goals from all positions and is still improving.

by ***XABIALONSO*** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:46 pm

stu_the_red wrote: Crouch Sinama
Kewell Alonso Sissoko Gerrard
Riise Hyypia Carragher Finnan
Reina

cisse is our top scorer doesnt play much and when does is on the rw he is our strongest forward

by **ivor_the_injun** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:53 pm

Yeah, to pick up on particular criticisms of players...

For me, at 21, Pongo looks like he'll eventually become a better player than Cisse, at 24. That said, at the moment I'd have Cisse higher up the pecking order.

As for Garcia, he's certainly flawed, but it'd still take some seriously good signings to take him out of my first 11. He needs to just wake up a bit and start making every touch meaningful, as his habit of turning possession over takes away a lot of the good that he brings to the team. Key last night was when he tried to twist and turn away from 3 Chelsea players about 10 metres inside his own half. Yes, he beat two, but as soon as the third nicked it away we were in trouble.

Again, if he was younger I'd be more encouraged, but at 27 he really should be old enough to know better.

by **murphy0151** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:04 pm

Im not being funny or anything but what do you lot see in Riiise? Hes :censored:

at defending, :censored:

at crossing, ill give him is due he does gives his all. An hes allso got a good Shot on him.

Either in the summer or the next transfer window I think we will purchase a new first choice left back.

I would rather have Traore at left back than Riise.

by **JohnBull** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:05 pm

Kewel ?
Must be me ,I've watched too much football, but I cannot see any place for this man in a Liverpool team. Back to his best ? When exactly was that ?
The sooner he trots off with his missus the better.

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