Liverpool FC Forum

bigmick wrote:My final word on the whole respecting your opponent thing is this. I have no axe to grind with Aussies be it on a cricket pitch or a football pitch or whatever.

what a liar        

Judge wrote:

bigmick wrote:My final word on the whole respecting your opponent thing is this. I have no axe to grind with Aussies be it on a cricket pitch or a football pitch or whatever.

what a liar        

Sabre wrote:

In England, we have more d!ckheads per square foot than anybody else in the whole World I would say

Correct. After Spain.

I think is not a Uk or Spain issue, I really think that the whole occidental culture is losing lots of good values.

Sabre

Sabre wrote:True. Although I find Blatter's word quite "fan words" rather than president words, It's true Turquey should be punished. It's unacceptable what happened there, even if  it's true they were also insulted in Switzerland.

if he bans turkey, thats ok with me 

Judge wrote:

Sabre wrote:True. Although I find Blatter's word quite "fan words" rather than president words, It's true Turquey should be punished. It's unacceptable what happened there, even if  it's true they were also insulted in Switzerland.

if he bans turkey, thats ok with me 

tel wrote:

LFC #1 wrote:

tel wrote:

LFC #1 wrote:Bigmick is spot on here, and I also agree with laza about the throat-slitting thing with the new haka (Kapa o Pango), I don't like it at all. They've only done that haka once though, the general consensus is that the traditions of Ka Mate should be kept.

As for turning your back on the haka to trivialise it, how stupid that was. I remember the Australians doing it in Wellington I nbaout 1997 and we beat you by 40 points, how clever it was to disrespect the haka like that.

52299818, Go to South Auckland and say booing the haka is ok, just because Australia discredits the culture of its natives, doesn’t mean you can disrespect ours.

You may have a point if only the Maori team members did the haka, but to have a bunch of white skinned guys doing it removes any requirement for respecting ancient customs and traditions. You can hardly say the haka is a tradition for Anglo Saxon white ppl born in NZ.

From memory, Maori tribes did the haka to scare off these very guys that came to NZ and killed most of them off.

So dont go giving history lessons to the Aussies when you dont exactly know your own

I see your point, but the Maori people generally have no problem with pakeha (white people) doing the haka in this situation, as the All Blacks are such a big part of the NZ culture as a whole, and it is natural that they encompass a large part of the Maori culture. Since going into a rugby game is like going into battle, it seems ok using an ancient Maori war dance as a challenge to the opposition. The All Blacks have done it since the inception of the national team, and the Maori culture has had a huge impact on Rugby in New Zealand.

I know my history fine mate, and Maori culture was a big part of my education in NZ. Perhaps Australia should take a leaf out of New Zealand's book and give the Aboriginals a little more respect? 

I am not Maori (we think their is some in our family going back several generations), but I did a haka with a few other white fellas (and oen Maori guy) on a Marae (the traditional Maori meeting place) in front of our whole grade at school, as well as Maori elders etc. Our teacher, who was Maori didn't seem to have a problem choosing a couple of white fellas (even when she could've chosen more Maori people to do it), because we respected their culture and understood what the haka meant.

I don’t want to get into an argument here, but do me a favour and don’t patronise me.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with white ppl doing the haka.

What I'm saying is:

1) if Maoris do the haka, its their culture and tradition and deserves respect

2) when white guys are doing it, its not their history, culture or tradition so no need for respect

So the Aussies have every right to turn their backs when the all blacks do it. The allblacks do the haka not to honour their traditions and culture, but to intimidate the opponent. And in that context, the opponent has every right to ignore it.

Some of us have seen the movie once were warriors

el_stinger wrote:

Judge wrote:

Sabre wrote:True. Although I find Blatter's word quite "fan words" rather than president words, It's true Turquey should be punished. It's unacceptable what happened there, even if  it's true they were also insulted in Switzerland.

if he bans turkey, thats ok with me 

Its bound to happen, they should have done it when those Leeds lads were slashed

Lionheart wrote:Kid a - I'm not sure if you have actually discussed the footballing history between our two nations (Uruguay & Australia) but I hardly think you, or any Uruguayian for that matter, are in a position to lecture on sportsmanship and negative play.

Ask your father about Uruguay's tour of Australia in 1974...(for the readers - and I hope I don't bore anyone here, skip to the last paragraph maybe). The first match was in Melbourne and finished 0-0. The Uruguayans became frustrated and resorted to horrible foul tactics, expecially off the ball and behind play.

Three days later the two sides met again in Sydney (and I was there and witnessed the game first hand). This was a game that demonstrated the worst fouls and acts of poor sportsmanship ever seen on a football park anywhere.

To paraphrase the 1974 German football historian Andre Kruger, " The Uruguayans kicked, punched and cursed, they hit everything they could reach . In fact Australian's striker, Ray Baartz, came in for special attention (he was playing brilliantly and had put Australia 1-0 up 60 minutes into the game) at one stage when he received a 'karate chop' type blow directly to his throat from Uruguayan defender Baristo (unseen by officials). Baartz collapsed to the ground and was unable to breath and required urgent medical attention. Baartz collapsed later that night suffering from symptoms similar to a stroke (secondary to the blow which caused the blood vessels in Baartz neck to swell and occlude the blood supply to his brain). He was on life support for the next two days and took two years to get back onto the park. Baartz missed the 1974 World Cup because of that dispicable callous act. 

Baristo was later sent red carded (by English referee Campbell) and the Uraguayans 'went mad'. Campbell was actually punched in the nose and he was forced to warn the Uraguayan coach that he would abandon the match if things didn't settle down. Garisto actually had one of his own team mates hit him in the face and then went to the referee to blame it on the Australians (this was 10-15 meters in front of where I was sitting with my father). Baristo was off...things calmed down and from the restart the Uraguayan Morena controlled the ball, with two hands, before kicking the ball into the back of the net. The offence was as clear as day to everyone. In fact the action was just plain childish and silly, but when the goal was disallowed the Uruguayans whipped themselves into an even greater frenzy of frustration, anger and disappointment.

Toward the end of the match Uruguay pushed EVERYONE, except the keeper (Fernandez), forward in the hope of getting an equaliser. What happened next would have been just comical if everyone hadn't been so dumbstruck by the Uruguayan's bad behaviour and poor sportsmanship - Peter Ollerton found himself on the receiving end of a goalmouth clearance and ran forward to Uruguay's goal. Fenernadez came out at a rush to meet Ollerton and the ball on the half way line. Ollerton rounded the keeper and set off toward the goal with ALL of the remaining 10 Uruguayan players in hot persuit. The Australians just stopped and watched Ollerton slot the ball into the net when he was just short of the 6 yard box. Final score 2-0.

The World's press were shocked by the result but even more shocked when footage of the game reached them. No less that 8 Uruguayan players should have been sent off for seperate incidents of foul play.

The game is different today. If that game had taken place today Uruguay would have been banned from international football FOREVER. They came to Australia as former world champions, they were brash, arrogant, and thought they were going to play a team of sheep sh@ggers and kangaroo cowboys. What they got was a footballing lesson in discipline and fair play. For some reason the Aussies still went and offered to shake hands after the game...the Uruguayans spat at us!!

I'm not excusing the modern Australian teams, we have LEARNT to develop out 'gamesmanship' from a wonderful tutor...in 1974.

So you see 'Kid a' before you come in here and sprout off about how Aussies are poor loosers and winners, check your history. You are hardly in a position to take any moral high ground here.

It's best to leave what goes on the park...on the park. Otherwise it could get thrown back in your face. 

         

Lionheart, from reading your post and everything you seem like an intelligent and knowledgable person. Certainly fit to talk on this matter. You, like most, have also misinterpreted the basis of what I was trying to say. Now, instead of just calling me a sore loser - you went a little more in-depth but still chose to also talk down to me. I never lectured anyone. You just lectured me. I merely pointed out that you Aussies have no room to talk down, considering your actions and play during these two games. From reading your post, you basically say that the past excuses your actions today. I think that's a sad excuse.  I'm not aware of the total history between Uruguay and Australia (Perhaps I will ask my father about 1974), but as I said and acknowledged beforehand - I know the Uruguayans reputation. I know that their play and sportmanship in the past is certainly questionable, I never denied that. Also in talking about Australia now, I never excuse Uruguay of any actions. I'm just sick of reading Australian fans critize Uruguay and praise their own team, when I feel they turn a blinde eye to their actions during these two games. That is all. Why is that so hard for people to understand...