Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC #1** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:21 am

I see your point Baiderante, but the differnece there is that from the 1960's - 1980's , many of Brazil's best players would stay in Brazil their whole career, whereas now your bet players go to Europe.

Brazilan football is still good quality though, and is probably more skilful than English football, you are right. Sao Paulo are a good side, and shoudln't be underestimated thats for sure.

by **Sabre** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:28 am

Don't be so fool my friend...

See you in Tokyo....

Pah

You know why Cicinho, and for that matter Robinho (who so far has showed little), Ronaldinho, and all the inhos want to flee from Brazil? Because here it's played the stuff that matters. You can assume that as a fact.

That said, I think that intercontinental cup has been underrated by European clubs, if those games were one in Europe another one in America, and this game was properly prepared, I'd put always my money on the European club.

If you want to put it this way, we have our best and your best in Europe, and you just have your average and unknown promising youngsters

So get your facts right before coming here to call fools anyone!

Sabre

by **A.B.** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:31 am

Even with the main team Liverpool will never beat Sao Paulo at the final. And do you know why ? That's because the english football is too much tecnical discipline and ZERO about hability. When Cicinho starts to use his ability I can bet with you that it will to late for Liverpool.

No one came back from three goals down in the Champions League and won the competiton, we did. No England team has had success in the World Championship but just because of that doesn't mean that we won't be able to go on and win it.

However this competition imo isn't entirely worth it, our league is our bread and butter and this is just another distraction. I rather see our reserves[youngsters] go on to compete because we're out of the Carling Cup.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:58 am

Bandeirante_SPFC wrote:drummerphil,

Think this...

Even with the main team Liverpool will never beat Sao Paulo at the final. And do you know why ? That's because the english football is too much tecnical discipline and ZERO about hability. When Cicinho starts to use his ability I can bet with you that it will to late for Liverpool.

As the history can show us, the english teams never take good results against south americans clubs. In 1981 Liverpool lost the final (in Japan) for Flamengo of Zico (3-0). Look the retrospect:

1968
Estudiantes de la Plata defeat Manchester United,

1980
Nacional (URUGUAY) defeat Nottingham Forest,

1981
Flamengo defeat Liverpool,

1982
Peñarol defeat Aston Villa,

1984
Independiente defeat Liverpool again,

the only exception is 1999 when ManU defeat Palmeiras (BRA). With this the Manchester United is the unique english club that can be proud to be the true world champion (in 1999).

Don't be so fool my friend...

See you in Tokyo....

It's time for a change then.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:56 am

I reckon we'll whip Sao Paula by 2 or 3 goals at least. South American football is a shambles, thats why all the best players come to europe. The Sao Paulo players won't know whats hit them when Carra poleaxes them

by **drummerphil** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:44 am

The point i was making was not whether we will win or not but its importance to us as a club considering the travelling etc and the amount of games we have when we get back.The brazillian guys that have come on here are acting as though its the most important match ever............which it isnt

by **Judge** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:47 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Bandeirante_SPFC wrote:drummerphil,

Think this...

Even with the main team Liverpool will never beat Sao Paulo at the final. And do you know why ? That's because the english football is too much tecnical discipline and ZERO about hability. When Cicinho starts to use his ability I can bet with you that it will to late for Liverpool.

As the history can show us, the english teams never take good results against south americans clubs. In 1981 Liverpool lost the final (in Japan) for Flamengo of Zico (3-0). Look the retrospect:

1968
Estudiantes de la Plata defeat Manchester United,

1980
Nacional (URUGUAY) defeat Nottingham Forest,

1981
Flamengo defeat Liverpool,

1982
Peñarol defeat Aston Villa,

1984
Independiente defeat Liverpool again,

the only exception is 1999 when ManU defeat Palmeiras (BRA). With this the Manchester United is the unique english club that can be proud to be the true world champion (in 1999).

Don't be so fool my friend...

See you in Tokyo....

It's time for a change then u nob.

thats what you wanted to say, and i agree

by **greenred** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:24 pm

Bandeirante_SPFC wrote:the only exception is 1999 when ManU defeat Palmeiras (BRA). With this the Manchester United is the unique english club that can be proud to be the true world champion (in 1999).

Don't be so fool my friend...

See you in Tokyo....

Maybe im mistaken,but didnt Man Ure get hammered in the World Club championship in 1999? Im pretty certain id remember if they`d won the thing

by **H_K_LFC** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:01 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
H_K_LFC wrote:the leagues gone and so's 2nd place(to wigan) already

You were joking then right ?

yeh a was...theyve had a good season but they wnt be able to keep it up

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:04 pm

Red black white wrote:
drummerphil wrote:nobodys really concerned that much about Sao Paulo my friend or anyone in it.You seem to be making this tournament far more important than it actually is.If you win it your not really the best team in the world are you,anybody who is half decent from your country ends up in spain or other european leagues.....why is that, apart from money its because they are better leagues.

Yeah, it's way important for us. We are better than any other Brazilian or Argentinian team...so that's why it's important. It's the chance to beat the best teams from the other continents and, particularly, the europeans ones.

If Liverpool is so superior, why don't it proves it playing football? It's the best way to prove your superiority...much better than keep on saying that "World Club Championship" doesnt worth it beacause Liverpool is the best anyway.

What about Boca or River Plate?

by **Red black white** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:37 pm

wrighty (not mark!) wrote:
Red black white wrote:
drummerphil wrote:nobodys really concerned that much about Sao Paulo my friend or anyone in it.You seem to be making this tournament far more important than it actually is.If you win it your not really the best team in the world are you,anybody who is half decent from your country ends up in spain or other european leagues.....why is that, apart from money its because they are better leagues.

Yeah, it's way important for us. We are better than any other Brazilian or Argentinian team...so that's why it's important. It's the chance to beat the best teams from the other continents and, particularly, the europeans ones.

If Liverpool is so superior, why don't it proves it playing football? It's the best way to prove your superiority...much better than keep on saying that "World Club Championship" doesnt worth it beacause Liverpool is the best anyway.

What about Boca or River Plate?

LIBERTADORES CUP 2005:
*Semi-finals
São Paulo 2 x 0 River Plate
River Plate 2 x 3 São Paulo

Boca Juniors was also eliminated in this championship (the most important in South America).

Pah

You know why Cicinho, and for that matter Robinho (who so far has showed little), Ronaldinho, and all the inhos want to flee from Brazil? Because here it's played the stuff that matters. You can assume that as a fact.

That said, I think that intercontinental cup has been underrated by European clubs, if those games were one in Europe another one in America, and this game was properly prepared, I'd put always my money on the European club.

If you want to put it this way, we have our best and your best in Europe, and you just have your average and unknown promising youngsters So get your facts right before coming here to call fools anyone!

Sabre

I'm not the guys you quoted, but I'll answer this.
You don't even know about São Paulo team. Ok, in general, I agree with you. However, São Paulo manage to form great teams, for instance, Amoroso (which has played in Brazilian team besides Ronaldo), Junior (Roberto Carlos's substitute in World Cup 2002), Cicinho (Cafu's substitute), Rogério Ceni (Dida's substitute in World Cup 2002), Lugano (plays in Urugayan team as a defender), Grafite (he made one or two games for Brazilian team).

And how many of Liverpool players are or have been in the English team? Don't forget to consider that Brazilian team is far much better than the English one and there is a vast number of options here.

I bet São Paulo will beat Liverpool. At least, this is what I expect.

Maybe im mistaken,but didnt Man Ure get hammered in the World Club championship in 1999? Im pretty certain id remember if they`d won the thing

Yep, MU was world champion in 1999.

by **greenred** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:01 pm

Red black white wrote:
Maybe im mistaken,but didnt Man Ure get hammered in the World Club championship in 1999? Im pretty certain id remember if they`d won the thing

Yep, MU was world champion in 1999.

Man Ure won the Inter Continental cup in the 1999/2000.I dont think even their most die-hard fan would claim that mickey mouse trophy made them World champions.The only official World Champions have been Corinthians of Brazil in that same 1999/2000 season.

by **Sabre** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:33 pm

You don't even know about São Paulo team.

Don't get me wrong I do. I think Rai also came from there right? I also remember with happyness how they f*cked IIRC Real Madrid in the eighties. Of course I know the most important Brazilian clubs, Flamengo, Vasco da Gama, Palmeiras and all those.

But as a Spaniard I can't accept someone from there comes and says that english football has zero quality. English football has lots of quality. Quality is not necessarily the useless "bicycles" and tricks that does Ronaldinho. For me there's also football quality when a whole defence in a row move together to put 4 players in off side. And that's why I asnwered that way, not because Sao Paulo is unknown. Of course it's known.

But Liverpool has won a championship that the teams of Kaka, ROnaldinho, Ronaldo and all those didn't manage to win. And for that it deserves a respect

Sabre

by **Red black white** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:45 pm

Sabre wrote:
You don't even know about São Paulo team.

Don't get me wrong I do. I think Rai also came from there right? I also remember with happyness how they f*cked IIRC Real Madrid in the eighties. Of course I know the most important Brazilian clubs, Flamengo, Vasco da Gama, Palmeiras and all those.

But as a Spaniard I can't accept someone from there comes and says that english football has zero quality. English football has lots of quality. Quality is not necessarily the useless "bicycles" and tricks that does Ronaldinho. For me there's also football quality when a whole defence in a row move together to put 4 players in off side. And that's why I asnwered that way, not because Sao Paulo is unknown. Of course it's known.

But Liverpool has won a championship that the teams of Kaka, ROnaldinho, Ronaldo and all those didn't manage to win. And for that it deserves a respect

Sabre

Sorry, but you got me wrong this time. I didn't mean that english football is zero quality (Owen, Beckham, Lampard, Guerrard...I know all of them... :laugh:

). I was trying to say that, here ,there are many more options and it's really difficult, even for very good players, to reach the Brazilian team. So, it's not like the players who are playing in the Brazilian league are just "trash" because everyone who is good is playing for European clubs. Apart from the "Brazilian big stars", such as Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Kaká etc there are the good players who are not famous worldwide.

Man Ure won the Inter Continental cup in the 1999/2000.I dont think even their most die-hard fan would claim that mickey mouse trophy made them World champions.The only official World Champions have been Corinthians of Brazil in that same 1999/2000 season.

OMG!

That "World Clubs Championship" was fake! Corinthians won the Brazilian league and played this "World Champ.". RIDICULOUS! They should have won the Libertadores Cup 1999 to join this. Palmeiras won the Libertadores Cup 1999 and was not invited while Vasco which won the Libertadores Cup 1998 was invited.

As you can see, no right rules were adopeted. Corinthians fans keep on saying they are the "World Champions" and we keep on saying they are a regional club (never won something outside of Brazil).

In the World Club Championship 2005, only CONTINENTAL WINNERS were invited. Much better this way.

About Manchester...remember that the best teams are in South America and in Europe, so that's why the winner of Intercontinental Cup is considered the World Champion, even for FIFA: http://www.fifa.com/en....00.html (Check the list there).

by **Sabre** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:45 pm

Apart from the "Brazilian big stars", such as Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Kaká etc there are the good players who are not famous worldwide.

I agree and I respect that. TO name a few, current Santos centre back Luiz Alberto is a decent player, Savio (hey this would be a good winger for Liverpool), Edú or even the youngster Quirinho are good. It's true it's not all about Bebetos and Romarios.

The original comment of zero quality was posted by someone else, and that's the one I commented.

Anyway my point is that you guys overrate yourselves a lot. It's true you're the most skillful (we say technic) players in the world. But skill only doesn't make a good footballer nor a team, that's my point.

Spain, as a squad, is half way of english discipline and Brazil quality. If we haven't won anything important in the last decades, it's not because we lack quality, Joaquin is class, Alonso is class, but there are more concepts than class. I'm so happy for instace Alonso is learning there. I'm so happy every time Carra waves his arms and thwaps him. Positioning, how to press, how to defend are football too, and in England there's plenty of that football. To think that in the EPL the ball is always on the air, is no more than a latin stereotype.

My respects to Sao Paulo, needless to say.

Sabre

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