Liverpool FC Forum

by **Irish LFC fan** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:16 pm

Can I just say that although I have been a life long Liverpool FC supporter and have seen them in the good times and the bad, it has to be pointed out that, in my opinion, quite a few of the current players do not deserve the honour of pulling on that red jersey.

Bill Shankly must be turning in his grave to see Liverpool players jogging back after they loose the ball, DIVING to try to cheat a referee, mis-placing simple 10 yard passes, not even hitting the target when a ball comes across with no defenders around etc.

In my opinion (and I have spent thousands of pounds travelling to and from Anfield from Cork over the years so I think I deserve one) Traore, Pongul, Kewell and Crouch will never in a million years be of the calibre of what we expect from a Liverpool player.

Did anyone see Pongul DIVE in the last few minutes of the game last night instead of getting hold of the ball and creating something when we were 2-1 down? You think Ian Rush, Kevin Keegan, Kenny Dalgish, Michael Owen or even Neil Mellor would've done that? Not a chance...

Don't get me wrong, some of the passing is good and even on occasion looks like the Liverpool of old but where is it getting us? We have strikers who are never in the box for a start, we have a 7 foot giant who can't head the ball and rarely shoots never mind scores, we have players trying fancy flicks and loosing possession rather than a simple pass-and-move. WE INVENTED THAT AND EVEN SUNG A SONG ABOUT IT! Other clubs are showing us how it is done at the moment.

My message to Rafa is to strap on a pair and tell the players how it is...get rid of dead wood! I am sure the rest of the Kop would prefer to see 11 players giving it their all and coming of that pitch knackered than paying good money to watch some of the 'talent' we have on display at the moment.

by **JBG** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:47 pm

How many times has this been said in the past 15 years? If Shanks has been wigglin about so much with the worms why don't we dig him up, dust 'em off and put a tracksuit on him?

Our club's great history is also a burden, constantly harping on about the past helps nothing.

Worry about the present, not about the past.

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:01 pm

JBG wrote:How many times has this been said in the past 15 years? If Shanks has been wigglin about so much with the worms why don't we dig him up, dust 'em off and put a tracksuit on him?

Our club's great history is also a burden, constantly harping on about the past helps nothing.

Worry about the present, not about the past.

You are being disrespectable to a great Liverpool manager same on you for making such a comment. On the football side yes it has been said many times before, but its true we have fallen a long way behind the great LFC teams of the past, and yes we do have a lot to live up to. That team out there last night was a disgrace to our famous club, it dosen't help when you have a manager who dosen't seem to know who his best 11 are?..and who cant seem to get to grips with the premiership?. There are too many average players in our team at the moment, and not enough quality ones, until we bring in these players and get rid of "the journey men" we will just have to make the best of it. :down:

by **Irish LFC fan** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:02 pm

Read it again...most of what I said concerned last night's game and the current crop of players so it couldn't be more 'in the present'

And I also never said that I was worried about the past, I am scared stiff of the future and what it could bring...

Maybe you should ahve a bit more respect for Shanks and what he did for the club? He won a championship using 14 players and any one of them (on a fraction of the wages these guys are on) would've laid down in traffic for him. How many current players would do that eh? Three, four, five?

Maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere, no?

by **babu** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:09 pm

I don't necessarily disagree with u Irish, but there so many threads going at the moment, a couple with similiar names, all with similar content, couldn't you have posted in one of those?

did you really need a whole new thread?

by **Irish LFC fan** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:12 pm

Sorry, I didn't realise that there was a shortage of cyber-space!

by **babu** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:18 pm

right fair enough....

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:20 pm

Irish LFC fan wrote:Sorry, I didn't realise that there was a shortage of cyber-space!

by **Irish LFC fan** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:22 pm

I wasn't being disrespectful there babu, i just came on to voice an opinion.

Have you any thoughts on the actual content of my original message?

by **JBG** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:08 pm

Hold on here, thats not being disresptful.

People constantly harping on about the past is one of the problems with our club.

Go to a Liverpool home game over the past 5 or 6 years and at times the place has been like a graveyard. Too many people moan about how the current sides are not a patch on the past sides.

We all know that. Its clear as the light of day. Nobody is disputing that.

Dragging up the past has been a massive problem. It got too much for Roy Evans and Gerard Houllier almost had a nervous breakdown with the likes of Morgan talking about "going back to the 1970s" and St. John and Lawernson moaning about the team being poor compared to the team of the past. Man UTD had the same problem for 20 years, with the ghost of Busby and his team hanging over successive managers in the 1970s and 1980s.

If you live in the past you'll never deal with the present. We all love our history - its what makes us unique - but its getting ridiculous. We had our share of big time Charlies in the past, indeed Shankly almost signed Frank Worthington - one of the biggest playboys of his day - so Shankly's time was not immune from fat cats.

Accusing me of being disrespectful to Shankly is facile and incorrect: Shankly was the most pivotal figure in the club's history. But coming out with the cliche "Shanks must be turning in his grave" is now a pain in the :censored:

, I've heard it said a million times over the past couple of years, and it has achieved nothing.

If anything the constant criticism and barracking has had a negative effect on players and staff over the past 5 or 6 years.

You accuse me of being disrespectful yet the "Shankly turning in his grave" comments at disrespectful to the manager who performed the greatest miracle in our history, Rafa Benitez.

This is 2005, not 1973. Football has changed and our club is changing: we will eventually move to a new stadium.

My Langer friend is looking at the past with rose tinted glasses: plenty of Liverpool players in the past bended or broke the rules, indeed, Kevin Keegan was the joint first player in history to be sent off in the Charity Shield, for scrapping no less. And Michael Owen never took a dive? Please!

by **Irish LFC fan** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:26 pm

Has anyone got a spare chill-pill for JBG?

All I am saying is that there are lessons to be learnt from the past and that quite a few current players don't deserve the honour of pulling on that shirt.

I am 100% Liverpool Football Club, I have been all my life and will be all my life. I want it to succeed but I think drastic changes need to be made and I think taking a few lessons from Shanks and Paisley isn't a bad way to go. And the players can take lessons from the players of yester-year as well.

In fact football as an industry should look back and realise that the people who come to watch each week pay their wages and deserve better than what we witnessed last night.

Fair enough Rafa is his own man, and I for one back him 100%, but he is the manager and the buck will eventually stop with him whether he likes it or not...he is in the hotseat and he has the job that unfortunately millions of Liverpool fans think they could do better.

So he can be stubborn and stick with inferior players, which will eventually get him sacked, or he can get a bit of fire in their bellies and get the club back on a positive track again.

I think he is more than capable and very much the man for the job. So i stand by what i said, strap on a pair and sort the players out...make them earn their wages

by **Scottbot** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:48 am

Maybe it's worth looking at the differences between fans of yesteryear and those of today. I can't get over the impatience of the modern day football supporter. They want it all and they want it now OR ELSE.

'Get in someone new. Get him now'

'But hasn't he just masterminded a miracle European Cup win with the likes of Traore and Biscan?'

'Feck that. We're struggling in the league. He's had 7 games and now we're out of the mickey mouse youth team cup. This manager is not up to it, he doesn't understand English football and never will. Lets ring 606, have a good bitch. Let them know Shanks is turning in his grave as we speak. that'll give the national rags something to write about. They can start turning the screw and before we know it we'll have some new sucker in the hotseat'

Brilliant

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:00 pm

Irish LFC fan wrote:All I am saying is that there are lessons to be learnt from the past and that quite a few current players don't deserve the honour of pulling on that shirt.

Thats boll.ocks mate.

In the 60's and 70's players where earning as much as top end business men, and travelled to training on bikes and used public transport.

These days a footballer can earn as much in a week as average joe would be happy to earn in 24 months.

Its totally different, and you cant use any precedents set in our Golden era on todays popstar like football players.

by **AlanHansen** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:18 pm

Irish LFC fan wrote:All I am saying is that there are lessons to be learnt from the past and that quite a few current players don't deserve the honour of pulling on that shirt.

I am 100% Liverpool Football Club, I have been all my life and will be all my life. I want it to succeed but I think drastic changes need to be made and I think taking a few lessons from Shanks and Paisley isn't a bad way to go. And the players can take lessons from the players of yester-year as well.

Football is very much a different game from back in the 70s/80s.

We don't have the financial muscle to compete for the best players, we have to take a chance on young talent - that means Pongolle/Traore etc.

We're going through a bad patch at the moment - Benetiz didn't get the players he wanted in the summer and the squad is unbalanced, but he deserves his chance to try and mould the team.

by **JBG** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:57 pm

The past is a bit of a myth.

Modern players often get accused of being playboys but in the past players would often have a skinful in the players lounge after a game.

The drinking culture has been largely eradicated now.

I now what the original poster is saying but guys in the past weren't perfect either.

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