Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:56 am

darwisigila wrote:The best in the world? Ronaldinho?? second place

Ronaldhino is not, to me anyway, a midfield player. I consider him a player who sits in the hole behind the strikers in the old fashioned playmaker number 10 role. That said, I'm not a watcher of La Liga and I base my somewhat presumptious assertion on the watching of International football and the reading of the views of various figures in World football.
I do think, however, that Ronaldhino is probably the best player in the World at the moment so if you are corcect and he is a bona-fide midfielder in the sense that I mean then I am happy to stand corrected. In that case, Fat Frank is the second best unless you can think of anybody else.

by **JBG** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:05 am

I think Ronaldinho is currently the best. He just has this inspiration where he can turn games with his genius. Very very players nowadays can do that.

by **Sabre** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:03 pm

Ronaldhino is not, to me anyway, a midfield player. I consider him a player who sits in the hole behind the strikers in the old fashioned playmaker number 10 role

I agree, he is what we call here a "media punta" (Half Forward), cannot compare directly with Lampard, really. Lampard is a complete player, but saying it's the top midfielder of the world is a bit too much, IMHO. I don't think he's the Nevdev or the Zidane of 2005. Far from it. As a matter of fact I'd put him in the bench if he played for Liverpool, I'd stick to Gerrard and Alonso in a 4-4-2 formation.

Sabre

by **The Canadian Red Army** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:09 am

JBG wrote:
Chelsea forever. wrote:
If Simao is worth 12 million quid then what is Ledley King really worth? The same? Less? Is Stuart Downing not cheap at less than 10?

bigmik - I get what your saying, but its difficult to nail down the price difference or relevance.

How many English players play out of England? Hargreevs, Woodgate, Beckham and for a year Owen, thats about it (recent past). Where as Spanish, Italian, African etc etc players are scattered all over the world.

Would a club in Spain be interested in buying King? or would King fancy a move to Spain? Unless its Madrid or Barca id have to say no! He'd be much happier at Spurs as opposed to playing for Athletico Madrid. However, Foreign players would come to England and not mind playing in the top 10 clubs or so. Its a very complicated matter.

But your point is very valid, if Simao is worth 12M or so then surely Downing would be a bargain at 7M or so, because he is proven here, there is no time required for him to adapt and he will produce from day one.

Hargreaves is as about as English as Greg Rudeski!

canadian

by **Houllier=LFC** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:17 am

Aaron Lennon is quality, we should move in for him.

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:34 pm

He has a bit of potnetial, quality though? I'm not so sure.

by **Judge** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:39 pm

The Canadian Red Army wrote:
JBG wrote:
Chelsea forever. wrote:
If Simao is worth 12 million quid then what is Ledley King really worth? The same? Less? Is Stuart Downing not cheap at less than 10?

bigmik - I get what your saying, but its difficult to nail down the price difference or relevance.

How many English players play out of England? Hargreevs, Woodgate, Beckham and for a year Owen, thats about it (recent past). Where as Spanish, Italian, African etc etc players are scattered all over the world.

Would a club in Spain be interested in buying King? or would King fancy a move to Spain? Unless its Madrid or Barca id have to say no! He'd be much happier at Spurs as opposed to playing for Athletico Madrid. However, Foreign players would come to England and not mind playing in the top 10 clubs or so. Its a very complicated matter.

But your point is very valid, if Simao is worth 12M or so then surely Downing would be a bargain at 7M or so, because he is proven here, there is no time required for him to adapt and he will produce from day one.

Hargreaves is as about as English as Greg Rudeski!

canadian

he is canadian, and he cant cook chips either

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:43 pm

Jeez, how many times have mentioned Aaron Lennon!?, I deffo think we shud move in for him.

by **Judge** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:49 pm

he seems to be an ok player, i think we must get the right player at the right price, but i'm not averse to paying a large sum if a player is excellent

by **andy_g** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:49 pm

its been a while since there's been a lennon in town. we should get him just for that...

by **Judge** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:23 pm

the last one got shot andy, that'll be no good (no disrespect meant in that statement)

by **The Canadian Red Army** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:38 pm

Judge wrote:
The Canadian Red Army wrote:
JBG wrote:
Chelsea forever. wrote:
If Simao is worth 12 million quid then what is Ledley King really worth? The same? Less? Is Stuart Downing not cheap at less than 10?

bigmik - I get what your saying, but its difficult to nail down the price difference or relevance.

How many English players play out of England? Hargreevs, Woodgate, Beckham and for a year Owen, thats about it (recent past). Where as Spanish, Italian, African etc etc players are scattered all over the world.

Would a club in Spain be interested in buying King? or would King fancy a move to Spain? Unless its Madrid or Barca id have to say no! He'd be much happier at Spurs as opposed to playing for Athletico Madrid. However, Foreign players would come to England and not mind playing in the top 10 clubs or so. Its a very complicated matter.

But your point is very valid, if Simao is worth 12M or so then surely Downing would be a bargain at 7M or so, because he is proven here, there is no time required for him to adapt and he will produce from day one.

Hargreaves is as about as English as Greg Rudeski!

canadian

he is canadian, and he cant cook chips either

how do you know that?

by **Kid a** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:31 am

Have to say, this thread is a great read. It's nice when people actually put some thought and effort into starting a discussion. Interesting topic, too. I agree with the topic starter. Many people are under the illusion that English players are all ridiciously overpriced, and we should be looking at other leagues for more "quality for money". I disagree. What top club (like ourselves) other than Arsenal in the league can you honestly remember having much success with foreigners whom they hadn't spend huge amounts of money on?? Not many examples out there. When bigger clubs go foreign and look at players in other leagues, they look at already established players usually. All names, who have already acquired their own hype (perhaps over-hype). You end up usually paying well over the odds for these players as well, just as you may find a gem for an acceptable price. Not exactly all that cheap, but also not much of a gamble with money. Acceptable. Do any of you think Reina is worth 7-8 million?? I know I don't, and never rated the guy as "class" when I watched mostly all of Villarreal's games last season when he was supposed to be the "best goalkeeper in Spain" at the time. A suspect statment if I ever heard one. The point being, in the end...if you want names and established players you will always be met with inflated prices. Anywhere in Europe almost. There's not much difference in going in for an established player in Spain, France, Germany, Holland, wherever in comparison to English talent or premiership talent in most cases. Obviously, it varies. For every "bargain" or quality player bought at an acceptable price, you're just as likely (if not more) to be met with flops. Players who can't adjust and settle in etc. Why take a shot at paying a couple million for a player who is playing well in Croatia or somewhere, and not take a shot at a similar type deal with a player playing in a lower league in England?? It doesn't seem to be happening that much with top clubs. They want flashy names. It's usually the mid-table or smaller clubs who will go looking around the neighborhood for talent and not hesitate to purchase a player who isn't a household name and in the spotlight, and spend a few million in doing so if he seems to be quality. Likewise, it's usually the smaller clubs who gamble on foreign players who no ones really heard about prior to them signing there and they haven't spend huge amounts of money on...who later get their way into the team and make a name for themselves. It seems silly to me that clubs are moving more and more away from acquiring homegrown talent. With alot of top clubs it would almost seem as if they don't even bother, if they're going to gamble they gamble with foreigners. In the end, this isn't good for English football. Obviously there's a hell of alot of foreign talent that is nothing but quality in the league, but then you'll also see average players with fancy names whom you can't help but wonder why they ever brought him over from his country??

Anyway, I think Liverpool should be looking more towards the South American market for players. I think Rafa said he wanted to get more scouts in South America. There's a lot of quality around, and if we're looking for cheap foreigners...it should be there. If Rafa had any sense of the market there, we could have gotten 2 quality right wingers to battle for a starting place in Luis Gonzalez and Fabian Estoyanoff who were sold to Porto and Valencia in the last transfer window, for probably less than half of what we offered fo Simao or around there. One is an established club player and international, and the other has been billed as an up and coming "star" who is also part of his international squad. That problem would have been completely solved!! And as for a centre-back, I think we put in a bid for Lugano who plays in Brazil. The guy is quality. Many people labeled him the best defender in Brazil, and some people go as far as saying South America at club level. Highly rated. Would be a great buy, although I don't think he would be incredibly cheap.

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:16 am

Kid a wrote:Have to say, this thread is a great read. It's nice when people actually put some thought and effort into starting a discussion. Interesting topic, too. I agree with the topic starter. Many people are under the illusion that English players are all ridiciously overpriced, and we should be looking at other leagues for more "quality for money". I disagree. What top club (like ourselves) other than Arsenal in the league can you honestly remember having much success with foreigners whom they hadn't spend huge amounts of money on?? Not many examples out there. When bigger clubs go foreign and look at players in other leagues, they look at already established players usually. All names, who have already acquired their own hype (perhaps over-hype). You end up usually paying well over the odds for these players as well, just as you may find a gem for an acceptable price. Not exactly all that cheap, but also not much of a gamble with money. Acceptable. Do any of you think Reina is worth 7-8 million?? I know I don't, and never rated the guy as "class" when I watched mostly all of Villarreal's games last season when he was supposed to be the "best goalkeeper in Spain" at the time. A suspect statment if I ever heard one. The point being, in the end...if you want names and established players you will always be met with inflated prices. Anywhere in Europe almost. There's not much difference in going in for an established player in Spain, France, Germany, Holland, wherever in comparison to English talent or premiership talent in most cases. Obviously, it varies. For every "bargain" or quality player bought at an acceptable price, you're just as likely (if not more) to be met with flops. Players who can't adjust and settle in etc. Why take a shot at paying a couple million for a player who is playing well in Croatia or somewhere, and not take a shot at a similar type deal with a player playing in a lower league in England?? It doesn't seem to be happening that much with top clubs. They want flashy names. It's usually the mid-table or smaller clubs who will go looking around the neighborhood for talent and not hesitate to purchase a player who isn't a household name and in the spotlight, and spend a few million in doing so if he seems to be quality. Likewise, it's usually the smaller clubs who gamble on foreign players who no ones really heard about prior to them signing there and they haven't spend huge amounts of money on...who later get their way into the team and make a name for themselves. It seems silly to me that clubs are moving more and more away from acquiring homegrown talent. With alot of top clubs it would almost seem as if they don't even bother, if they're going to gamble they gamble with foreigners. In the end, this isn't good for English football. Obviously there's a hell of alot of foreign talent that is nothing but quality in the league, but then you'll also see average players with fancy names whom you can't help but wonder why they ever brought him over from his country??

Anyway, I think Liverpool should be looking more towards the South American market for players. I think Rafa said he wanted to get more scouts in South America. There's a lot of quality around, and if we're looking for cheap foreigners...it should be there. If Rafa had any sense of the market there, we could have gotten 2 quality right wingers to battle for a starting place in Luis Gonzalez and Fabian Estoyanoff who were sold to Porto and Valencia in the last transfer window, for probably less than half of what we offered fo Simao or around there. One is an established club player and international, and the other has been billed as an up and coming "star" who is also part of his international squad. That problem would have been completely solved!! And as for a centre-back, I think we put in a bid for Lugano who plays in Brazil. The guy is quality. Many people labeled him the best defender in Brazil, and some people go as far as saying South America at club level. Highly rated. Would be a great buy, although I don't think he would be incredibly cheap.

A good post with some decent ideas as well.
A certain Mr Cahill springs to mind when thinking about cheap lower league players.
The amount of young South American players that the spanish clubs pick up seems to show that they have alot of scouts out there.
Barcelona have another supposed gem in Mesi who is meant to be the next big thing from Argentina, he is only 18 and already earning rave reviews...i bet he didn't cost a ridiculous amount either.
I know there are exceptions like Robinho who cost alot but he is genuine world class and anyone who has watched him can see that.

by **andy_g** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:27 am

i think the spain has a very different work permit policy than the UK and its much easier for young south american players to play there. look at the situation with us and mark gonzalez, where this lad messi (who is a real talent) can go straight in and play for barca. having said that though, he has played for them in europe a few times but only just broken in the team for la liga having got his spanish passport sorted out and so not breaking the number of foreigners rule.

so in spain they still have certain restrictions on foreign players but the market for south american talent will always be more open as there's (nearly) always a way to find enough of a spanish family connection for that second passport.

Liverpool FC Forum

Lets not forget, - You can buy british aswell.

Who is online