Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:24 pm

Whats the obbsession with pace please?

I'm dying to know. Why is everyone obbsessed with a centre back with pace. Surely quality and overall footballing ability comes first.

We haven't conceeded one goal this season down to a lack of pace.

by **PepeMomo** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:34 pm

you wouldn't deny pace is a something you preferably want in players in any positions, right?

it's just a preference. If we can get a hyypia at age of 24, I am fine with that even if he's not fast.

And surely, pacey centre bank will likely make us not being hit by counter attack so easily, isn't it?

by **The Canadian Red Army** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:16 pm

i think they are trying to say they want someone of youth, a good cheap youthful substitute would work fine. Pace isnt everything, but youth is what we should be keeping an eye on.

by *****GERRARD***** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:28 pm

someone like mexes a fast centre back

by **JBG** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:00 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Whats the obbsession with pace please?

I'm dying to know. Why is everyone obbsessed with a centre back with pace. Surely quality and overall footballing ability comes first.

We haven't conceeded one goal this season down to a lack of pace.

The season is early yet Stu.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:04 pm

JBG, that doesn't answer my question.

by **JohnBull** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:08 pm

Good things don't happen overnight - Even Shanks needed time to get us out of the second Division (showing me age because I WAS there).
Believe me I've watched them all come and go and Raffa is the best we've had since Bob Paisley and just like him, he'll buy when and where he's good and ready. Things are still on track for a great side to come out of this and second guessing the Boss is pointless.
The greatest performances I've watched from us (5-0 against Notts Forest was THE best team performance ever in this country) were not repeated every week and even in those days there were rubbish performances in amongst the nuggets.
Some day's a diamond, some day's a stone ! Stick with the PLAN

by **JBG** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:10 pm

Ok, I'll elaborate.

Yes, its true that of the couple of goals we conceded this season, I don't think any were down to being beaten for pace at the back, although I'm beginning to remember the goal away to Kaunus, which I think (if I recall correctly) involved Sammi giving the ball away and then being skinned by the Lithuanian player.

The lack of pace in defence could cost us yet....our league capmpaign hasn't really got going so its difficult to assess where we are at.

Very good defenders can mask physical shortcomings such as a lack of pace by reading the game and anticipating things early, and Sammi is quite good at that. However, in most games I have seen him play he is liable to get caught roughly once a game. When he's caught, the opposition player is gone, and thats worrying.

Pace is important in the Premiership: its probably got the fastest and most athletic players in the world.

by **JohnBull** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:18 pm

Sammi's biggest problem is his poor clearances which put us right back on the defensive while the forwards are heading the other way. The problem with LouisG is similar - we get wrong footed during attacks. These are nothing too serious though and I'd rather suspect that Raffa is aware and dealing.
Judging by his actions on the touchline I suspect he does.

by **Kid a** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:25 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Surely quality and overall footballing ability comes first.

Cisse is a player (although not a defender) that is a perfect example of this and shows why in the end pace is nothing, if you don't have ability.

Saying that, though, I don't think people are making pace out to be the most valuable asset that we should be looking for in a centreback. It's just a bonus. It's like asking people if they would want the regular version or the deluxe version?? DELUXE. Doesn't mean it gives priority over any other things..ability to read the game, positioning, an other natural abilities etc.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:25 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Whats the obbsession with pace please?

I'm dying to know. Why is everyone obbsessed with a centre back with pace. Surely quality and overall footballing ability comes first.

We haven't conceeded one goal this season down to a lack of pace.

i agree with you, hypia`s ability to meet the long ball was and is a major reason why chelsea cant put us on the back foot like they did to the likes of barca and bayern munich.
if people think our defence is poor then they want to remember the keystone cops antics of babb, tanner, kvarme and matteo who reacted to a simple percentage ball punt like someone had just tossed a hand grenade into the box.
if you cant defend the long ball in this league you`ve got no chance of doing anything and will leak goals like a seive whilst a lack of pace might cost you a handful of goals a season.
the everton defence last year was slow but was still solid and even john terry is slow for a young lad. a good defence has more to do with organisation and team work than pace.
compared to back fours in the last 15 years this one is one of the better ones but obviously sami is getting on and a replacement will have to be found soon but in my eyes not for a while yet.

by **red37** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:26 pm

JohnBull wrote:Good things don't happen overnight - Even Shanks needed time to get us out of the second Division (showing me age because I WAS there).
Believe me I've watched them all come and go and Raffa is the best we've had since Bob Paisley and just like him, he'll buy when and where he's good and ready. Things are still on track for a great side to come out of this and second guessing the Boss is pointless.
The greatest performances I've watched from us (5-0 against Notts Forest was THE best team performance ever in this country) were not repeated every week and even in those days there were rubbish performances in amongst the nuggets.
Some day's a diamond, some day's a stone ! Stick with the PLAN

you talk sense johnbull..and if more people settled down and actually looked at this season in perspective! hell weve only lost once in 17 games in europe (2nd leg of a foregone conclusion) and prior to that, once before thanks to saviola's arm?
in the league we are unbeaten since highbury...so its fair to say we are doing VERY well.

i hope rafa is like bob paisley. because we are in for one hell of a time :buttrock

by **red37** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:38 pm

then again, judging by the raft of members (14)! that decided to pay respects to yesterdays anniversary of the passing of bill shankly are anything to go by.... maybe the immortal bob paisley wont be remembered for much,i suppose

by **Alonso14** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:48 pm

The guy may have a point, i mean carraghers not exactly quick but he is in the top 3 center backs in england along with Terry who also lacks pace, but argubaly the best Ferdinhand has bags of it and thats what might jst give him the edge over Terry or Carra.

by **JC_81** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:53 pm

Pace isn't everything, I'll agree with that. Hyypia and Cisse are good examples. The former is a top player despite being slow, whereas the latter is athletic and has pace to burn, yet in my opinion isn't a top player.

Central defence is one position where I feel players can still get away with being slow if their positional play and aerial ability is good enough to compensate. Hyypia comes into this category, as does Terry at Chelsea. No one slates Terry for being slow though do they? Carvalho isn't exactly quick either and neither were Adams or McGrath at their peak but they were still class.

There will be times this season when Hyypia will get skinned for pace and give away the odd goal, and it will look really bad on tv when you see it and everyone will say 'get rid of Sami he's past it'. Bollox. What the replays won't show is the amount of times Hyypia is in exactly the right position to block a shot or cut out a pass or the amount of times he makes a quality cross look like an easy headed clearance because he has anticipated it.

We do have a slight weakness in that neither of our centre backs are really quick, but it is only a slight weakness because they are both so positionally sound and play together so well that their lack of pace is very rarely exposed. Give me Carra and Sami anyday over a quick pairing like Mexes and Boumsong for example (who everyone raved about when they were at Auxerre). In defence positioning and experience are everything, pace is a luxury.

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