Liverpool FC Forum

by **JBG** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:52 pm

While I agree that Pongolle deserves a chance, I still think we should persist with Cisse. However, he needs to be playing as a forward, not as a winger, and he could work well running on to Crouch's knockdowns.

Pongolle looks like he has bulked up, and we should see more and more of him in the first team. I'd still pick Cisse ahead of him though, and give Djbril a 6 or 7 game run in his natural position before passing judgement.

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:02 pm

Exactly. If Cisse is going to improve he's going to need, not just games, but games in the right position and Crouch is the ideal partner for him doing what Heskey did for Owen.Sorry for offending Crouch but it would be a similar set-up.

On another note, you can have Sinama in the same team, on the right wing to fill in for now and see how he fairs.Since he has come to Liverpool, I really do rate craig 'sinama' David as an attacking threat with good close control and has the ability to change games as does Cisse. Unlike Sinama though, you need to play Cisse upfront if he is going to justify the promise that he shown in his Auxerre days.

As for Garcia...play him on the left. He played particularly well there in his stint at Tenerife under Rafa scoring over or around 15 goals so in saying that, I think he could do it again in that position for Liverpool.

----------------------Reina---------------------------------

finnan carragher hyypia warnock

alonso

sinama gerrard garcia

cisse
crouch

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:34 pm

Cisse isn't good enough to play for Liverpool weather its upfront or on the right.

Against the weaker sides:

Crouch
Luis Garcia Sinama-Pongolle Gerrard
Alonso Sissoko
Warnock Hyypia Carragher Finnan
Reina

Against the better sides:

Crouch
Luis Garcia Pongolle
Alonso Sissoko Gerrard
Warnock Hyypia Carragher Finnan
Reina.

When we sign Joaquin :;):

in the first team its a straight swap with Sinama. In the second team, Gerrard into the middle, Joaquin onto the right, then either Luis Garcia or Sinama behind Crouchy and on the left either Luis Garcia, Riise or Zenden depending on the opposition.

by **LFC #1** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:50 pm

Although Crouchy has been outstanding thus far, I'm not convinced he's going to score a lot of goals up when playing up front on his own. As Stu loves to tell us we need to sign a player of Joaquin's class if we are going to make this 4-5-1 work IMO. If Kewell could rediscover his Leeds form (don't hold your breath) then we'd have a wide pair which would match, if not eclipse, Chelsea's.

Back on Crouch though, he has a been a good addition to the squad but I'm not sure he'll score the goals, and TBH I hope Morientes can show us what he is all about (we've seen it at Monaco and Madrid), as for me a fully firing Morientes with Kewell and Joaquin out wide in a 4-5-1, with Xabi, Sissoko and Stevie in central midfield gives us as good a midfield/attack as Chelsea have, if not better, and defensively we are not far behind either, although they do have a GK who is out of this world.

Unfortunately their are a lot of ifs and buts there, If we sign Joaquin, if Kewell and Moro hit form etc. However the match on Wednesday and the previous encounters last season have shown we can match Chelsea when playing them, it's just the depth and quality of their squad all round that allows them to be much more consistent. However we are only a few quality signings away from challenging them for the title IMO.

by **XSD** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:50 pm

Reina
Finnan Carragher Hyypia Warnock(injured?)/Traore
Garcia Gerrard Alonso Riise
Crouch Cisse

or

Reina
Finnan Carragher Hyypia
pongolle Gerrard Sissoko Alonso Riise
garcia Crouch

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:59 pm

I don't agree that Cisse isn't good enough to play for Liverpool, there have been players in the past who I would get rid of quicker than you can say 'man USA'. It is evident that he can score goals and he will. Did any of you say Cisse wasn't good enough when he saved us in the Super Cup? I didn't think so. Give the man games in the correct position and he will shine.

Secondly, I am not for having a seperate more cautious formation against the so-called stronger teams. we are Liverpool and we shouldn't change our formation to match the opposition. They should change their formation to match ours.

by **LFC #1** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:04 pm

Cisse has got till January IMO, he's got incredible pace but the rest if his game is average tbh. I'd love him to start banging them in left,right and centre, but to be fair Crouch and Morientes are better technically than he is, he does offer something different to them but I agree with Stu that Sinama is a better player, and he has more than sufficient pace. IF Cisse doesn't get it together by January he should be sold to finance the transfer of Joaquin and another striker.

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:11 pm

LFC #1 wrote:Cisse has got till January IMO, he's got incredible pace but the rest if his game is average tbh. I'd love him to start banging them in left,right and centre, but to be fair Crouch and Morientes are better technically than he is, he does offer something different to them but I agree with Stu that Sinama is a better player, and he has more than sufficient pace. IF Cisse doesn't get it together by January he should be sold to finance the transfer of Joaquin and another striker.

I agree that Cisse is not as good as craig david pongolle technically and so forth but I was arguing against the fact that he is not good enough for Liverpool. I am up for giving the man a chance which i think he deserves considering what happened last year.

I do not believe in getting rid of a player before they have truly had their chance. Robert Pires springs to mind when you think about the benefits of patience.

Not January, until the end of the season.

by **LFC #1** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:14 pm

Fair enough, he does deserve a chance I'll give you that.

Will he take it though? I'm not sure.

by **XSD** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:17 pm

I'd like to point out that when Cisse has started games upfront he's looked good and scored some goals, he's scored goals off the bench as well. He deserves to be starting and that's what everyone expected but it hasn't happened. We can say for sure now he is not a right winger.

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:22 pm

LFC #1 wrote:Fair enough, he does deserve a chance I'll give you that.

Will he take it though? I'm not sure.

I appreciate that mate. whether he takes his chance or not, at least at the end of the season we can rest assured, whatever the outcome that we gave him his chance

by **bigmick** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:43 pm

It seems a bit odd me saying this given that I never really fancied him from day one, but I think one or two are being a bit harsh on Cisse. He's not worth what we paid for him for sure but he's not that bad. He is playing out of position for the team at the moment and probably shouldn't be judged on his performances there.
Whatever everyone thinks about him, I hope Rafa sticks him back up top before January because at this rate we won't be able to give him away.

by **JBG** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:51 pm

Cisse has many weaknesses - an inconsistent first touch, a tendency to not watch the line and get caught offside, and poor positional awareness - but he has his strengths, such as his blinding pace and athleticism, a very sweet shot, and a reasonable amount of dribbling skill. I don't see him as an out and out poacher, although he has poached a few for Liverpool, but more of an impact striker like Samuel 'Eto, a guy who is quiet for most of the match who can skin a defender and get in on goal.

Cisse has a big reputation on the continent and you'd be surprised in the interest we'd have in him were he up for sale.

I think Cisse has the potential to make it at the highest level, but I doubt it will happen for him at Benitez's Liverpool, the 4-2-3-1 line up not really accomodating his strengths. I could see him being a very big hit at somewhere like Arsenal or Barcelona.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:51 pm

I don't agree that Cisse isn't good enough to play for Liverpool, there have been players in the past who I would get rid of quicker than you can say 'man USA'. It is evident that he can score goals and he will. Did any of you say Cisse wasn't good enough when he saved us in the Super Cup? I didn't think so. Give the man games in the correct position and he will shine.

Secondly, I am not for having a seperate more cautious formation against the so-called stronger teams. we are Liverpool and we shouldn't change our formation to match the opposition. They should change their formation to match ours.

Wrighty, although you've only had 200 or so posts, you've made some good points already and i actually think you're one of the few on here who contributes positively to the debate. However...

On your first point, after the super cup yes i was saying that. The lad is decent i admit, but he's not and never will be class. He's 24 If you compare him at 24 to what Owen was at 17, you'll see the difference. Now, before you start, yes i believe some players are late developers, Beckham, Warnock etc. But the fact is they've had the ability there beforehand.

Cisse has on numorous occassions shown unbelievable pace. More so than when Owen signed pro forms and thats a big compliment to that attribute. However he lacks far to many other attributes to be a great player, his goals in the super cup... One was a handball, the second was a because he didn't finish the first chance, if that was a good keeper the second chance wouldn't have come his way. Granted you can only beat whats infront of you, but come on, look at it realistcally, that was Cisse's level.

The second point is absoloute rubbish i'm affraid. We can't afford the best players in every position so therefore we need to be tactically superb to beat some sides.

If you compare Chelsea's 11 to ours it would be complete stupidity to go and match them man for man and "out-football and out class them". We'd get absoloutely ripped to peices in every department. However, with the correct game plan and preperation we are more than a match for them.

We won the champions league by altering tactics against sides that had superior players.

Pride should never stand in the way of sense. Basically you are saying there we should go to places like Highbury and try and take Arsenal on at there own game. Think about it mate. Its not rocket science.

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:04 pm

i appreciate it that you recognise that i make a half-decent contribution.

I think there was a major misconception on what i said referring to the formation. If you look at the Milan game, we changed our formation from a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-2 to a 3-5-2 and what happened? we got 3 back against the 'black beast' as Real call it. Granted, we changed it to a 1-8-1 in the dying minutes of the full match before pens!haha

I can understand your point and looking at it closely, perhaps we should change our formation against some sides. But I believe that a side like ours is more than capable of playing how we want without being to tentative regarding 'what might happen'

However stu. What's better at the end of everything?................. 2 draws? or a win and a loss?

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