Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Ace1983** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:45 pm

A couple of seasons ago, before he came to us, Rafa Benitez led Valencia to the La Liga title (and the Uefa cup, but that's not important right now) and saw off the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona. Not bad really. He didn't have the funds or the stars or the fanbase of the two big names in Spain, but he did it. The question is; How?

Well, as a sometimes Real Madrid supporter (I started getiing into them when Macca went there) I was cheering on the boys at the Bernabeau because they were so good to watch. They had Raul, Ronaldo, Figo, Zidane, Carlos, Beckham... well, I'm sure I don't need to reel off the list to you, right? The philosophy was "You score 2 goals, we'll score 23" and for a long time, this had worked. And then up popped Rafa Benitez and Valencia. His philosophy was "we score 1 goal, and then we'll brick up the goal mouth". I'm talking real old-school George Graham tactics. Snatch a flukey goal and dig the trenches. It was the most mind-numbingly boring, dull and life-sucking form of the beautiful game I have ever witnessed. Parking the bus in front of the goal was not the word for it. It was more like building a bus station on top of the goal and then surrounding it with a mine field. And this from a team that had Pablo Aimar in it.

Benitez also had something else up his sleeve, although it must have been a very, veery long sleeve as this something was John Carew. All 6'5" of him (or something like that). No-one quite knew how to deal with him. It wasn't just that he was odds on to win every header, but his giant stride confused defenders no end. Oh, don't get me wrong, they had other good attacking players as well (I'm sure you don't need the list) but it was the inclusion of this giant freak that got many defensive players and coaches scratching their heads trying to figure out how exactly you were meant to contain someone like that.

So let's review. What has a tendancy to score few goals and a giant up front? I'll give you a hint, it begins with L. Got it? Good.

Is Rafa really so 1 dimensional? Surely not. It wasn't like that last season. Of course, last season he was wearing another man's trousers and now that he's got his own kegs on, it's only right that he should have his own way. Are we the new Valencia? Are we entering into the bus-station construction business? I hope we are. I know I sounded a bit ober-negative about this system earlier but that'sa because it was being used against a team that I like. I quite like it when it's being used by a team I love :hearts

.

Three games in to the season and we haven't conceded a goal yet. This from a team that not so long ago boasted a defence which included Phil Babb in a starring role! This from a team who has had less luck with keepers down the years, than... well, actually I can't think of a metaphor or similie that makes anything sound worse than David James. And look at some of the talent we've faced. Hasselbaink, Yakubu, Defoe, and even... who plays up top for Sunderland

What I'm trying to work out is whether or not Rafa is trying to make us the team that doesn't score much, but doesn't concede any. It may not be the most attractive style in the world, but it's tried and tested. Are we the new Valencia?

by **liverpoolrich** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:20 pm

hopefully we can have aimar to go with it

by **stoney** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:08 pm

And Vicente too. Wouldn't mind him running down our left wing.

by **liverpoolrich** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:10 pm

stoney wrote:And Vicente too.

yeah definetly

by **mighty mo** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:08 pm

i would be happy with rafa,s philosphy,it seems chelsea have the same ethos as liverpool as well,strong at the back quick counter attacking and nicking 1 nil victories

by **XSD** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:11 pm

I remember Valencia as a very exciting and creative team in the CL, they made clowns of us.

by **A.B.** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:35 pm

Mourinho and Benitez use similar tactics. Both like to have a forward up front who can hold up the ball, both like to attack on the counter attack. The only difference is that one has money which allows him to buy the best players to fit those tactics.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:30 am

Mourinho and Benitez use similar tactics. Both like to have a forward up front who can hold up the ball, both like to attack on the counter attack. The only difference is that one has money which allows him to buy the best players to fit those tactics.

spot on ! I would like to add . Not only he can buy a best player but his boss can buy the title .

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:45 am

I think we all need to forget about Rafa and Valencia, from the day Rafa joined us, the fans have been saying Oh Vincente, Aimar bla bla are joining us, they all want to come here cause of Rafa.
Whether they would like to meet up with Rafa again remains to be seen, but after a year in the prem Rafa will realise his tactics at Valencia wont work here.
They played beautiful passing football and beat even the Gallaticos twice running to the title.
Teams in the prem stop you from playing your passing game so therefore Rafa will not even take these tactics to the players, he may do in Europe but not in the bread and butter league, where we really need to be up there in the top 3 this season.
Good post though Ace all the same as always.

by **Paul C** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:03 pm

XSD wrote:I remember Valencia as a very exciting and creative team in the CL, they made clowns of us.

Yeah me too, Aimar made Sami, etc look like sunday league muppet

by **The_Rock** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:02 pm

stoney wrote:And Vicente too. Wouldn't mind him running down our left wing.

Have you seen vicente ? He is even more light weight than luis garcia......don't think he can adapt here.

by **Judge** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:09 pm

The_Rock wrote:
stoney wrote:And Vicente too. Wouldn't mind him running down our left wing.

Have you seen vicente ? He is even more light weight than luis garcia......don't think he can adapt here.

perhaps he meant as a ball boy

by **ry_math** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:46 pm

wudn't b 2 bad

by **Alonso14** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:30 pm

Counter Attacking is the way to win football games these days. A team who does this brilently is the Arsenal and a team that does it even better is the Brazil National sqaud.

If you have ever watched either you will know how good they both are and how technically capable they are.

Many believe that Brazil are always on the attack, but they are actully not they let the opposition come at them and draw the the full backs and other players out of position and as soon as they get the ball, Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Goal. Because there so good at moving the ball at good pace the opposition are always left standing. Any one who watched the Confiderations Cup would have seen this, Specifically the Argantina Game.

The game is very often won in the trasition from when a defender tackles the ball and how fast the team can move it up the field.

Obviously not every team could play like this because of how technaically skilled you have to be, and Im sure the manager doesnt even have to teach the how to play like this, they just do it.. I mean Zenden is no Kaka. But we will get there.

But im sure Benitez found this out a long time ago and is trying to assemble a team to do that.

by **JC_81** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:55 pm

Some good points Ace,

One I'd like to pick up on is the point you make about Rafa trying to make a team that may not score many but gives nothing away at the back. I have nothing against this strategy in principle, but there is a right and a wrong way to implement these tactics.

If you cast your mind back to the start of the Houllier era, this is what he also tried to do. We needed the defence sorted back then and he did it very well initially, by getting rid of James and bringing in the defensive diamond of Westerveld (who had a great 1st season), Hyypia, Henchoz and Hamann. The centre halfs rarely ventured much further than the edge of their own box and we had the best defence in the premiership. However, from an attacking point of view Houllier got it all wrong. There was never enough flair in the side and we were very one-dimensional in the way we played it over the top for Owen all the time. We were a counter-attacking side full stop. When teams set out to defend against us, we struggled to break them down.

I make this point because it is a very different idea that Benitez is trying to implement. Yes, he wants to make us hard to beat and isn't bothered if only win by the odd goal, as long as we win (like Houllier). But the way the team is set out is completely different. We now defend much higher up the pitch and squeeze into midfield a lot more. We sacrifice being vulnerable to balls over the top (especially with our lack of pace at the back), but to make up for that we have more control of the midfield and are better positioned to attack.

I don't agree that we are a counter attacking side, that is not Benitez's idea, he wants to build a patient side that plays possession football. A target man helps with this strategy which is why we've bought back-to-goal strikers like Crouch and Morientes.

All the pieces are not in place yet, but once Benitez gets all the players he wants, then the answer is yes: we will play a style of football very similar to Valencia. Tight at the back, good at keeping the ball, patient and clinical in front of goal. It is the latter that separates Benitez's great Valencia side to us right now, but we'll get there.

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