Super-sub's colum - Why england always come second to lfc

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby The_Rock » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:25 pm

Spoken like a true fan....guess i am not the only one who hopes that "gary neville will get struck by lightening whenever he plays for england" :p

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I have noticed for some time now how uninterested Liverpool fans are in the England team. It seems to me that most Liverpool supporters, and I include myself in this group, are unwilling to share their football passion between the Reds and the national side.
 
I suppose it's not entirely surprising when you consider that the city of Liverpool is basically a republic at the end of the M62. For as far back as I can remember, Liverpool people have always seen themselves as separate to the rest of the country. We've got our own identity, which has very little in common with the rest of the north never mind the rest of the country. In fact, you won't hear many Liverpool fans describing themselves as northerners because they see themselves as completely different to the people from Yorkshire or Newcastle.
 
Whether our independence is down to the fact that we're a port and we're so close to Ireland and Wales or whether it's because our city has produced the greatest ever football team and the greatest ever pop band, I'm not sure, but we've certainly never felt the need to buy into this whole English pride thing.
 
When it comes to football, we require our teams to be built in our own image, not a mixture of the average and the over-hyped. Our traditions are set deep and are quite unique, moulded as they have been in recent times by the likes of Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley.
 
The rivalries we have with our main adversaries are too strong to put away for 90 minutes of national success. When Frank Lampard scored for England against Northern Ireland back in March, I couldn't cheer because here was the same player who, however unintentionally, had robbed us of Xabi Alonso for almost three months with a broken ankle. It's the same with Wayne Rooney and the Neville brothers - how can you expect a Liverpool supporter to sing their name just because they've swapped their club shirt for that of their country?
 
I personally can't remember supporting England with any real enthusiasm since Roger Hunt's days. I tend to think this lack of interest stems back over the last 30 years, as the national team has been perceived as the team of the south. Whether it was the same when I went to Wembley to watch the World Cup final as a kid, I'm not sure, but certainly since then I've never been able to get as excited about England as I can Liverpool. In the 70s when Liverpool began to dominate football at home and abroad, the national press tried everything they could to keep a lid on our success through their canvassing of London-based players for the England team.
 
These days though, I think a lot of fans of clubs like Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal would be quite happy if their players were never selected for international duty. With the football calendar so full, international games are seen as a hindrance especially for teams with great ambitions of competing for the main trophies.
 
International football is not without its plus points, however as we all love the World Cup every four years. It's a festival of football for virtually a month and the chance to enjoy the world's best players but it doesn't seem to matter for us if England are there or not. More than simply cheering England on, it's about having a pint and watching the telly. England didn't make it to USA '94 and to be honest, I didn't really miss them.
 
But how do the players feel? Every footballer I've ever met aspires to play for their country. It's a benchmark of achievement and it is a great scene to be a part of. Personally I see my England caps as great souvenirs but they don't compare with my Liverpool medal collection.
 
Playing for your country is great but comes at a price as every performance is dissected and analysed by the entire country. You can leave for the game as the country's saviour and return questioning even your own ability. In the 1980s, John Barnes was the best player in the England team and yet he was subjected to so much criticism and abuse he did well to maintain his strength of character to perform to such a high level for us on his return.
 
I read recently how embarrassed he was to have every touch booed and jeered by the England supporters while he was playing for his country against San Marino. Really makes you proud to be an English fan, doesn't it?
 

Fairclough on England
Every footballer I've ever met aspires to play for their country. It's a benchmark of achievement and it is a great scene to be a part of. Personally I see my England caps as great souvenirs but they don't compare with my Liverpool medal collection.
More than the abuse dished out to the likes of Barnes and Steve McManaman, it is the thought of injuries that dominate fans fears when international week takes over proceedings. Jamie Redknapp, to name just one player, suffered two terrible injuries while with England and those injuries effectively robbed the player and us Liverpool fans of his best years in a Red shirt.
 
In recent years the choice of England managers has failed to inspire us (Ricky Tomlinson might have been a step in the right direction!) and add to that so many average players getting call ups and it's not hard to see why so many fans fail to get excited about the national team.
 
Obviously, Carragher and Gerrard are fully deserving of their international selections and when they play we will wish them well, but their safe return is the most important thing. England results are neither here or there compared to a win over Manchester United or Chelsea. Tomorrow night England take on Northern Ireland and Carragher and Gerrard will be a big part of Sven's selection. Win, lose or draw, as long as they both come back in one piece I'll be happy.
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Postby JBG » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:32 pm

I initially thought this thread was about my co-mod and grumpy old man supersub's recent operation.
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Postby tubby » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:34 pm

I think one thing your forgetting is that there are as many passionate Liverpool fans that live nowhere near Liverpool.

On the subject of the state of the current team i dont think Stevie or Jamie should have been playing against wales in the first place. Theyve been playing for like a month or more now and Sven was insistent of playing Gerrard so soon after his injury before he had even made his comeback for Liverpool. It was nice of himto say though that Frank Lampard had not been playing well of late. lol Nice one sven.
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Postby 109-1093441336 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:53 pm

They way those eng-ger-lund fans used to boo Barnsey.

:no


When Frank Lampard scored for England against Northern Ireland back in March, I couldn't cheer because here was the same player who, however unintentionally, had robbed us of Xabi Alonso for almost three months with a broken ankle.


:nod

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Postby Ace Ventura » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:06 pm

Agree with alot of what you have said Rock, internationals most of the time are pointless, it means we dont get the chance to see the reds in action, and i spend most of the game watchin sh@te players worrying whether our players will be brought off before they get injured.
Having said that, world cups are a different matter, well either of the major tournaments. I watch every match possible and love it when England play.
We usually try and get away and watch it abroad...not at the venue, just somewhere in the sun, watch the match and then get out on the lash where there are hundreds of drunken women.
But i do hate it when the cockneys start singing rule Britannia an all that rubbish (sorry if there are any cockneys on here).
At the end of the day LFC come first with England a distant second, but i am proud to be Englsih and do get caught up in the nation sweeping belief that we will actually win something again.
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Postby stmichael » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:11 pm

personally, i'm looking forward to seeing england and their foreign coach taking a huge step to becoming the best team in the world this week.

but that's enough about the england cricket team. :D

i think it's sven's negativity that's turning people off england at the moment. at this rate, he's in danger of turning rooney into the biggest waste of a national asset since north sea oil.

lfc always will be number 1 :buttrock
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Postby Garymac » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:31 pm

LFC does come 1st but i love supporting me country, but i am patriotic, id support are curling team if we had one, im a little like a sad tw@t in that way, but yeah when it comes to us english competing im always behid them, i still think henman is gonna win wimbledon! I also fu*kin hate rugby but my god i loved it when we won the world cup, its great see supporting your country cos you can go from one sport to the other pretending youve always loved it, the other year, loved rugby, hated cricket, now, dont give a toss about rugby cos its for n0b heads but now, Love the cricket and love freddy flintoff like a brother......See fu*king brilliant!!!!!
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Postby The_Rock » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:03 pm

stmichael wrote:i think it's sven's negativity that's turning people off england at the moment. at this rate, he's in danger of turning rooney into the biggest waste of a national asset since north sea oil.

news flash.....david beckham is running the england team not sven....... :eyebrow

I mean how many people will play beckham in place of SWP ???

Englands best midfield is SWP, Lampard, Gerrard & Cole..... beckham knows this....and this is the reason for 4-5-1.

England has the best team in ages.....but they ain't gonna win the world cup with players picking the squad....
Last edited by The_Rock on Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Alonso14 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:10 pm

The_Rock wrote:
stmichael wrote:i think it's sven's negativity that's turning people off england at the moment. at this rate, he's in danger of turning rooney into the biggest waste of a national asset since north sea oil.

news flash.....david beckham is running the england team not sven....... :eyebrow

I mean how many people will play beckham in place of SWP ???

Englands best midfield is SWP, Lampard, Gerrard & Cole..... beckham knows this....and this is the reason for 4-5-1.

England has the best team in ages.....but they ain't gonna win the world cup with players picking the squad....

I had a smiliar thought, but recently i watched him play for madrid and he still has it and often dicates the tempo of there games from the center.

He isnt lost along side the likes of Ronaldo and Zidane.

Sven just doenst have a clue what his best system is. He knows his best players.

But i am disapointed that he seems to pick them by reputation and not by form like he used to when he first took over.

He also doent mind risking players who are injured, which also worrys me.
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Postby stmichael » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:13 pm

Alonso14 wrote:Sven just doenst have a clue what his best system is. He knows his best players.

the best system we have with the players we've got is 3-5-2. it's obvious. everyone can see it apart from the manager who's getting paid £5m a year. ???
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Postby kazza » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:42 am

stmichael wrote:
Alonso14 wrote:Sven just doenst have a clue what his best system is. He knows his best players.

the best system we have with the players we've got is 3-5-2. it's obvious. everyone can see it apart from the manager who's getting paid £5m a year. ???

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Postby 109-1093441336 » Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:04 pm

If gerrard gets booed for not being as good for Eng-ger-lund as he is for Liverpool, will the English supporting Liverpool fans boo along?
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Postby Paul C » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:38 pm

I agree with Supersub (DF that is) cos I am not a big England fan, yeah I love my country but my one and only love is Liverpool, I see international football as a distraction from club football which in my mind comes first.

Plus England games are always an anti climax :(
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Postby liamac » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:08 am

Really good post , i  honestly feel when i see England play that im seeing a team that represents  supporters from the south east  and  even then its mainly londoners or "essex boys" .

It really graits me when i hear "EN-GER-LUND" being chanted by fat baldheaded tanked up cockney :censored: , who want to take on the world  , who have an almost automatic hatred of anything foreign even tho their club teams  mostly consist of  foreign players  the worst chants going to Germany and Argentina because  "we wun the war"  then whistling  the tune from "The Great Escape " .
Watching news reports of when traveling England  fans getting p!ssed and starting fights  then being interviewed   you hear Cockney accents or Southeast  or Yorkshire accents , anyone everheard a Scouse accent?

The violence from club team supporters overspills onto the national team  supporters  mainly because they are the same people  yet  why doesnt that  happen with Scotland Ireland or even Wales  ? 
Celtic and Rangers fans have an almost mythical hatred towards one another because of the sectarianism in Scottish football  ( Hearts v Hibernian  and Dundee v Dundee utd being other examples )  yet when it comes to national team support , all is forgotten for the sake of the country and when they do go and support their national squad  the supporters are on their best behaviour (Scotland  often winning best  behaved supporters in a competion) , ok Scotland havent been in a competition for a few years  yet why do they behave so well yet England supporters are notoriously violent ?
Even in Wales where we all know about the Cardiff supporters and how violent they are , when it comes to supporting their country , all that sh!te  stops , and as for the Irish  they just get p!ssed and have the crack  with not a hint of Violance

I honestly feel  (and please tell me if im wrong )  that the reason why so many Liverpool supporters dont  feel the same about England is simply because  as supporters , Liverpool supporters just dont act or behave in the same way  as Arsenal Chelsea ManUtd or Leeds Millwall WestHam or Spurs  supporters and do not want to be assosiated with them or their like  in anyway , its not  the  Liverpool way and never will be
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Postby The_Rock » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:25 am

liamac wrote:I honestly feel  (and please tell me if im wrong )  that the reason why so many Liverpool supporters dont  feel the same about England is simply because  as supporters , Liverpool supporters just dont act or behave in the same way  as Arsenal Chelsea ManUtd or Leeds Millwall WestHam or Spurs  supporters and do not want to be assosiated with them or their like  in anyway , its not  the  Liverpool way and never will be

u noe why ? becos LFC is better than england......

Just let england pick the best english players (bar carra & gerrard) verses us.....then LFC will beat england any day.
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